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Isn't the new Vindication effect the same as Lasting Legacy, but worse?


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Rolling my way through some testing of the new balance patch from last week, and I got around to the changes to Renegade.

  • Vindication Was: Gain 1 might when you gain Kalla's Fervor. Citadel Bombardment pulls 1 additional missile.
  • Lasting Legacy Was: Heroic Command grants you +1 stack of might per stack of Kalla's Fervor when used. Kalla's Fervor lasts 50% longer, and is stronger (3% damage, condi damage, lifesteal damage, instead of 2%).
  • Vindication Now: Kalla's Fervor now additionally heals you for 1% of your outgoing damage. Citadel Bombardment pulls 1 additional missile.

Maybe I'm not understanding things, but... if Kalla's Fervor already grants you 2% lifesteal. And you gain healing based on 1% of your outgoing damage. Is that not the same thing as 3% lifesteal? Or is the effect of Kalla's Fervor that all lifesteal effects are 2% stronger, but Vindication now grants a new form of lifesteal, one that doesn't deal damage, but still heals?

I thought the entire issue with Vindication was that it overlapped too heavily with Lasting Legacy, as it granted bonus might that was easily cheeseable with Heroic Command's extra might per stack. What does "extra missiles with Citadel Bombardment" have to do with self-healing at all? Why wouldn't I just use Lasting Legacy for might, bonus damage, bonus condi damage, and lifestealing?

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Yeah their Renegade reworks have been very MISS lately.... When they said they were reworking it, I was hoping they'd actually make fervor a resource mechanic rather than something we have insta perma 5 stacks of, but they went the extra lazy route and just messed with the summons, which ultimately didn't do anything for PVE, and made its one defense options weaker in PVP.

As far as the Vindication change....it's strong-ish. It's 1% of all damage (except lifesteal as far as I can tell) So in full viper PVE set up you can heal for 1200+ hp a second just off condis alone. You lose 5% strike and 5% condi damage which is pretty big, but it isnt as big as a loss because you gain extra burns from a more reliable citadel bombardment. Over all It's just a "take this trait for less damage but more survivability that doesn't require energy spending if you're group or the content you're doing is lacking sustain." In PVP it's alright. It'll help with trades and chip damage, but Revenant struggle with being able to fire off offensive abilities while playing defensive due to it's energy economy so you'll struggle to see it heal you when you need it the most. 

Overall I would have merged old Vindication into Lasting Legacy... 1 might per fervor. extra might. extra damage. Done... extremely strong, but have you seen the rest of Renegades traits outside the GM xD.... my god those need help. they've been stripped clean.

Then make Vindication still gain extra missiles but then make them apply poison or something more unique that I'm too lazy to think of right now.

And then in orders from above you can get rid of the condi reduction and just have the damage healing there... or better yet, the damage to healing be changed to just aoe allied healing because it never made sense to be in Renegade in the first place.... put that crap in Devastation as a reworked Battle Scars. Gives Renegade a chance at doing a heal Alac build again (even though the alacrity should just be removed and given to blue alliance Vindi)

But yeah... the New Vindication is very Niche.... good for very few things, but very strong in those situations.


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Posted (edited)

Kalla's Fervor isn't lifesteal.
It's lifesteal damage.
It only affects how much damage lifesteal skills like Soulcleave or Battle Scars do.

From the wiki:

  • Life steal damage is called Life Siphon Damage and the heal is called Life Siphon Healing. The amount of damage dealt and healing received are independent.

Vindication on the other hand is just straight up %damage -> healing, on everything.

New Vindication is super good in PvP, would be nuts if Renegade didn't have garbage traits and zero utility. Sorta like how Scrapper has been off and on because of Impact Savant.

I think it's really lame that it came at the cost of damage either through Vindication's might gen or Lasting Legacy's improved passive damage though. Frustrating to take two steps forward but one step back when you're one of the worst elites in the game and should only be going forward.

That's the point of a buff, to be only improvement, not a slightly positive trade.

Edited by Shagie.7612
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Posted (edited)

The Fervor's buff effect states "lifesteal" but it actually isn't. It's damage from Lifestealing effects. 

It has to be mentioned in the tooltip because Life Steal aka Life Siphon is a special damage type that does true damage and is not affected by Armor or Physical immunity. Fervor affects this damage. This means anything from Battle Scars damage from Devastation or Vampiric Aura damage from Necros are increased by Fervor as well. 

New Vindication is decent for PvP and turns you into a bunkering monster. Less useful in WvW unless you are using Renegade as a frontline gatecrashing unit that wants to tank alot of damage. Imo what they should have done is add a passive that makes Citadel Bombardment cost 15 Energy instead of 30. Now that would be great for any offensive Renegade build. 

Edited by Yasai.3549
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