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Make Shield Blocking Viable


Buzzbugs.1236

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Blocking with the shield should not be stuck on a 3 second duration with a 30 second cooldown. It feels horrible to use actually.

Shield blocking should be tied to Adrenaline. Similar to the way Thief abilities are tied with initiative.

When Shield blocking, your adrenaline bar gets consumed. The rate at which adrenaline is consumed can be lowered by traiting into the Defence traitline.

Give warriors this more active and defensive option and watch Warrior become more interesting to play. Because nothing feels worse than being in a fight and needing to block a hard hitting attack, but you can't because you expended a block 28 seconds ago..

 

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Posted (edited)

They could start with baselining the 20% trait cd reduction they removed with no compensation first. You know, before completely reworking a single skill to interact with the class resource in a completely unprecedented unique way.

Edited by Jzaku.9765
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Posted (edited)

They could give Shield Stance a manual flip over skill once an attack was blocked.

And then they could change the block abilities on other weapons to function the same, so they all block for the max duration if the player chooses to, or the manual flip over can be used to stop blocking early.

Unless Shield Stance also starts activating Burst traits based on the adrenaline used, it should not be tied to adrenaline at all.

It's already bad enough that Berserk uses adrenaline without activating said traits. We do not need more of that.

Edited by Fueki.4753
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1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

I can already hear the storm of tears in the PvP forum. 

Who cares?

Thief is able to spam evade and stealth abilities 5 times in a row using initiative. It's no more balanced than a warrior being able to block using adrenaline.

Balance doesn't exist in GW2 PvP. Period. May as well make warrior more functional and fun to play.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Balance doesn't exist in GW2 PvP. Period. May as well make warrior more functional and fun to play.

 

 

I actually agree here. 

But you know the whine fest that is the pvp forum. The moment a warrior build is viable, they pull out the forks and torches. 

 

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Posted (edited)

The problem is how annoying it is to balance something based on class mechanic. 

How much Adrenaline is too much? Too little and well, cmon people aren't gonna just allow Warrior to have nice things, are they? Too much and it's literally worse than a 3s duration block. 

A cooldown exists because negating attacks for 3seconds is a rather impactful utility to use against many encounters. 

Imo the trait it's associated to can buff it, so how about: 

If you block 3 attacks, Shield skills are completely refreshed. 30s cooldown. Now this doesn't just affect Shield, it means you can Block on Staff too and recharge Shield Bash and Shield Block. Now that'll be a little more interesting if the player wants to be some immortal tank. 

 

Edited by Yasai.3549
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6 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Who cares?

Thief is able to spam evade and stealth abilities 5 times in a row using initiative. It's no more balanced than a warrior being able to block using adrenaline.

Balance doesn't exist in GW2 PvP. Period. May as well make warrior more functional and fun to play.

 

 

Now see if you ask Thieves they apparently have it way harder in the game because they are so squishy, and get two shot so easily so that is why they need all of those evades, blinds and all of that stealth.

Nevermind the fact that everything is easily capable of being two shot these days anyway so why that is a justification for it I don't know, also at this point Axe Thief is basically just Willbender with Stealth which is a terrifying concept.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

Now see if you ask Thieves they apparently have it way harder in the game because they are so squishy, and get two shot so easily so that is why they need all of those evades, blinds and all of that stealth.

Nevermind the fact that everything is easily capable of being two shot these days anyway so why that is a justification for it I don't know, also at this point Axe Thief is basically just Willbender with Stealth which is a terrifying concept.

As an ambassador from the thief guild:

 

Quote

Yes, warrior needs the cd back on shield stance. Anet omegabuffed bladesworn and the fallout from them coming to terms with the reality that maybe roleplaying as a walking wall isn't fun has weakened every warrior build that tried to escape that archetype, every time they did it. Modular defensive weapons having high cds coupled with increasingly useless damage options means more and more people leaning into wall RP.

Quote

This isnt a zero sum game. Thief is built around the evades. They only have a problem when people ask to take them away and don't offer any other mitigation, because at that point youre just perpetuating the blind 'you should suffer more' bandwagoning that got warrior where it is now. If you realize thieves get twoshot if they're not weaving their resources, then advocate for builds that let you do the same. Then maybe we can get out of this bunker mire we're stuck in. 

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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Honestly give shield bash 4  2 uses . On successful hit decreases cool down of shield 5 by 5 seconds. If Target is stunned by shield 4 decrease shield 5 cool down by 10 seconds. It might be a bit op but I mean it's not like shield even does damage either way for warrior 🤔

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Could make it a toggleable option where you hold your shield in front of you and block/reduce damage taken in a cone in front of the shield, but doing this stops you from being able to cast other skills.

This would have a stamina bar for how long you can hold it up and once you use it all if has to recharge. Kind of like Reinhardt from overwatch and his shield mechanic.

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On 7/5/2024 at 4:11 AM, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Shield blocking should be tied to Adrenaline. Similar to the way Thief abilities are tied with initiative.

I still remember when Full Counter got implemented: It's a short evade on a short cooldown that consumes adrenaline. That's exactly what I wished for the shield block skill, considering some of the Gw1 shield skills had worked somewhat similar.
Although I like the idea, I find it hard to implement. There's currently no weapon skill that consumes adrenaline in any way. It's all tied to the F-skills.

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Ever since GW2 came out, warrior mains have been asking for alternative options to spend adrenaline besides one F1 burst. Just look at how Spellbreaker is with just Full Counter.

It'd be cool to even use adrenaline like how fighting games has a meter that can be used to power up moves.

It sucks that Anet kept the "simple" theme the entire time with warrior.

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On 7/5/2024 at 2:24 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

As an ambassador from the thief guild:

 

Yes, I absolutely get that they are built around those things. That is entirely on ANet for leaning into it as the core of the class and thats why it has perpetuated it and only gotten more and more prevalent over time. A few Thief mains I have spoken to have agreed that it is kind of annoying that the stealth spam evade spam are basically just the meta for the class at the moment and it just isn't fun because there is really no variety outside of it and its annoyingly oppressive to other players. That is also why so many thieves likely love it because it allows them to delete the vast majority of players pretty easily. Like Willbender. Like Harbinger. Like Soulbeast. Etc, etc.

Not that there is no learning curve to Thief, just like there certainly is one for Willbender and others, but in the same vein neither of them are that difficult to get into and once you get the basics down you'll be able to do exactly what someone sees Thieves do.

This is why Warrior has problems. It also has a learning curve, theoretically it isn't that steep because the class isn't all that complicated, however the prevailing issue is that it is outdated and doesn't keep up with other classes in terms of access to certain things that have become essentially mandatory in PvP combat. People got annoyed at Staff Warriors just because there was some Aegis, a bit of Might and Fury, and some healing tacked onto it and it got labeled as egregiously oppressive, it wasn't even doing a ton of crazy damage it just wasn't dying as fast as people had become accustomed to. In an era of 2 to 3 button clicks = dead Warrior just doesn't do that. At least not to any player even remotely average or above average. If someone is getting instant burst by a Warrior these days they 100% let that happen because it is pretty easy to just not let it happen, or that Warrior is just a cracked out player and has spent an ungodly amount of hours on the class. Those are very few, though and I think even some of those players have either just stopped playing or swapped to other classes at this point because its just not that fun on Warrior right now.

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16 minutes ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

Yes, I absolutely get that they are built around those things. That is entirely on ANet for leaning into it as the core of the class and thats why it has perpetuated it and only gotten more and more prevalent over time. A few Thief mains I have spoken to have agreed that it is kind of annoying that the stealth spam evade spam are basically just the meta for the class at the moment and it just isn't fun because there is really no variety outside of it and its annoyingly oppressive to other players. That is also why so many thieves likely love it because it allows them to delete the vast majority of players pretty easily. Like Willbender. Like Harbinger. Like Soulbeast. Etc, etc.

Not that there is no learning curve to Thief, just like there certainly is one for Willbender and others, but in the same vein neither of them are that difficult to get into and once you get the basics down you'll be able to do exactly what someone sees Thieves do.

This is why Warrior has problems. It also has a learning curve, theoretically it isn't that steep because the class isn't all that complicated, however the prevailing issue is that it is outdated and doesn't keep up with other classes in terms of access to certain things that have become essentially mandatory in PvP combat. People got annoyed at Staff Warriors just because there was some Aegis, a bit of Might and Fury, and some healing tacked onto it and it got labeled as egregiously oppressive, it wasn't even doing a ton of crazy damage it just wasn't dying as fast as people had become accustomed to. In an era of 2 to 3 button clicks = dead Warrior just doesn't do that. At least not to any player even remotely average or above average. If someone is getting instant burst by a Warrior these days they 100% let that happen because it is pretty easy to just not let it happen, or that Warrior is just a cracked out player and has spent an ungodly amount of hours on the class. Those are very few, though and I think even some of those players have either just stopped playing or swapped to other classes at this point because its just not that fun on Warrior right now.

Completely correct

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Ideas for different changes for shield

  • Skill 4 - Shield Bash - Skill recharge reduced to 18 seconds
  • Skill 5 - Shield Stance - Skill recharge reduced to 20 seconds. Block duration reduced to 2 seconds. Blocking an attack reduces the cooldown of Skill 4 by 3 seconds and Shield Stance flips over to a new skill
  • Skill 5 - Protector's Defence - End your block early to protect nearby allies with Aegis (3 seconds, 240 radius). Gain Adrenaline (5 strikes) if this skill does not end early
  • Shield Master - Aegis provided to allies also provides them with missile reflection

Or how about:

  • Skill 5 - Shield Stance becomes an ammo skill (2 charges, count recharge 20 seconds, 5 seconds between skill use). Shield Stance flips over to Protector's Strike when blocking
  • Protector's Strike - End your block and stun nearby foes (1/2 second). When striking an attacking or Defiant foe, gain Adrenaline (5 strikes)

Or if there's a radical rework that uses the Adrenaline bar:

Shield Mastery - Shield skills no longer have a cooldown and require 10 strikes of adrenaline for skill use

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IMHO, give both skills a flipover.

Shield 4: After hitting with Shield Bash gain access to Shield Slam.

  • Shield Slam: Slam your shield into target foe (1.0 coefficient), dealing more damage (1.5 coefficient) and inflict slow for 4s if they are under a crowd control effect. 240 range.

Shield 5: After activating Shield Stance gain access to Shield Strike. Each attack blocked by Shield Stance empowers Shield Strike, max 5 stacks.

  • Shield Strike: Strike with the edge of your shield gaining might (5 stacks 10s) and fury (10s). Coefficient of 1.5, with an extra 0.15 coefficient of each empowered stack. Strikes up to 5 targets, 240 range.
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I was thinking something like this

Shield 4: Bash your foe and stun them. If activated whilst using Shield 5, reflect projectiles, travel further (600 range) and block attacks.

Shield 5: Shield Stance. Block attacks for 3 seconds.

  • Chain Skill: Mighty Shield: Press again to throw your shield. It will rebound your shield between multiple targets and it will come back to you. You can throw your shield 2 more times after it comes back to you.
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