Unfair Dead Spying

[ArchonWing.9480]

Not really a problem. If you are really that bothered, you can throw siege on them to block their view.

Also we've had many commanders command well, perhaps even better, when dead. And given how what I read on the forums, a lot of players would be more useful like this too, if they're not already used to being floor POV. But everyone should play to their own strengths.

But I mean, OP legit believes they were more useful to their group dead than alive, and I am really not sure if this is the game's fault or not, or even if this is a bad thing. And the end of the day who am I to tell people how to enjoy their game?

Edited August 13 by ArchonWing.9480

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

You can't win, Zerg. Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

[Anov.4237]

Dont know if i need to say im alone. So fighting isnt an option and a FB support dont do anything. and my WB is shite.

Edited August 13 by Anov.4237

[Heibi.4251]

2 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Not really a problem. If you are really that bothered, you can throw siege on them to block their view.

 

You do realize that they can just zoom out, right? It does nothing to block their view.

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, Heibi.4251 said:

You do realize that they can just zoom out, right? It does nothing to block their view.

It was more of a joke than anything else. (much like this issue)  Nobody sieges buries people tactically lol but it was something to do back then when people didn't release.

And hey maybe some people have bad computers.

Edited August 14 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chaba.5410]

15 hours ago, Codename T.2847 said:

I've never heard of anyone complaining about your dead character having an unfair advantage.. xD

It was a thing years ago on the old forum. Same suggested solution too.

[SweetPotato.7456]

I tell you, there are people purposely making weird request just to destroy the game. must be some WoW (insert other mmo here)  dev in disguise. 

Edited August 14 by SweetPotato.7456

[T G.7496]

People can see if you don't release. They know you can see them. If they know you're spying, are you a spy?

Also, it's a game. Games are meant to be fun. Looking at a black screen, or whatever, ain't fun. Deciding not to respawn because you want to watch part or all of the remainder of a fight can be fun.

Also, you can still target call. That can be fun, too.

Nothing is unfair when it's available to both sides.

Edited August 14 by T G.7496

[CafPow.1542]

8 hours ago, Anov.4237 said:

Dont know if i need to say im alone. So fighting isnt an option and a FB support dont do anything. and my WB is shite.

No that was clear. You don’t fight from the beginning. You run away but stay close enough to keep an eye on them.

when all your allies arrive, then you jump in. FB support is super awesome to have for all.

try that in the future i would suggest. Doesn’t always work out, sometimes you die, happens. ^^

[Squirrell.1493]

As an active scout, sure, being alive is better, but there is time when you stay dead.

An example :

you scout for you're squad that is fighting another big group.  Suddenly, your keep is contested. As a scout, I will be the first here : the third server is attacking. While the fight is underway on the other side of the map, I will 

- give the information (who -color and guild- , where they attack, number, percentage of wall/gate) to my com via whisper, no need to vocalize it to perturb the first fight

- then try to slow them, to give more time for my com to come and defend the structure (use the disruptor - I prefer when it was "blocking" the arm siege, but well - use our defensive arm siege, repare walls)

But with all those pulls and area skills, being on a wall is very risky and sometimes deadly. If that happen, I will not release. I'll stay dead and give informations about the advance of the attack to my lead, and he will decide if he can come defend, or if it's a lost cause. 

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

14 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Sure but also consider on the other hand that an enemy is not a bot. He can draw back around a corner, block your view (like you mentioned) etc.

it‘s part of the game. Sure it is more useful to see something when dead than seeing nothing. But even more useful it is to be alive, even release and rush back to help.

Besides that, all in all, the game provides a certain amount of mechanics. Mechanics, that are ingame since release (like downstate) and i am baffled (and amused) when i read that people still seem to fail to adapt to those mechanics. Now they come here and criticize them, instead of thinking about how to improve.

I am never in favor of removing game tactics. Where I stand on the fence here, is are there game tactics that could be improved? Not sure this is a remove versus improve feature myself. Either change impacts my various game plays, since I play in roam mode, havoc and zerg mode. Each are impacted in various ways. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

12 hours ago, CafPow.1542 said:

I don’t know i never die on purpose.

I do. There are times to have a few die to decoy a much larger number. People say you can't bait larger groups, that's a false statement. You can. You can also save larger numbers by using a few to draw others away and also use that to allow your warband to gain an advantage and then hit a decoyed group in the flank. All of this is before ring blockers or scouts that can give feedback while in a fight.

It's a valid tactic right now so I agree removing tactics is questionable. But there is value in being dead in the right places as the OP was stating.

[TheGrimm.5624]

11 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Not really a problem. If you are really that bothered, you can throw siege on them to block their view.

Also we've had many commanders command well, perhaps even better, when dead. And given how what I read on the forums, a lot of players would be more useful like this too, if they're not already used to being floor POV. But everyone should play to their own strengths.

But I mean, OP legit believes they were more useful to their group dead than alive, and I am really not sure if this is the game's fault or not, or even if this is a bad thing. And the end of the day who am I to tell people how to enjoy their game?

lol, you know my bad habits and I try and go 1 v what. When using a havoc, just means more time to target the other side. Move that to a tag and......target rich environment on the attacking side of the discussion. 

This is why I am on the fence, I will adapt either way. I can use both game mechanics since I play multi-rolls. I am not saying yes to the OP, but there is a discussion point here. 

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, Dinas Dragonbane.2978 said:

You can't win, Zerg. Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

OMG, lol +5 from me.

I will have to date you though

[TheGrimm.5624]

1 hour ago, T G.7496 said:

People can see if you don't release. They know you can see them. If they know you're spying, are you a spy?

Also, it's a game. Games are meant to be fun. Looking at a black screen, or whatever, ain't fun. Deciding not to respawn because you want to watch part or all of the remainder of a fight can be fun.

Also, you can still target call. That can be fun, too.

Nothing is unfair when it's available to both sides.

This has been one of the best arguments that has been applied over time, it applies the same to both sides. 

[CafPow.1542]

1 hour ago, Squirrell.1493 said:

sometimes deadly. If that happen, I will not release. I'll stay dead and give informations about the advance of the attack to my lead, and he will decide if he can come defend, or if it's a lost cause.

Yes.

but „sometimes“ is the key. Sometimes you die. Then you stay dead (except there is somebody else there maybe).

but you wouldn’t die on purpose, right?

 

36 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

I do. There are times to have a few die to decoy a much larger number. People say you can't bait larger groups, that's a false statement. You can. You can also save larger numbers by using a few to draw others away and also use that to allow your warband to gain an advantage and then hit a decoyed group in the flank. All of this is before ring blockers or scouts that can give feedback while in a fight.

It's a valid tactic right now so I agree removing tactics is questionable. But there is value in being dead in the right places as the OP was stating.

It is but it is even more valuable if you stay alive as long as possible to distract them even longer? Eventually you die, sure. And that is a tactic i agree. But the tactic is called „lure away and distract“.

[Andy.5981]

There are many problems with WvW. This is not one of them.

[Deepsmack.9028]

Someone crying about spying? Is Sea of Sorrows here? SPIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jobber.6348]

Jesus christ what do you possibly have against a dead body that can yell alot for 5 minutes? 

You doing anything near them that's embarrassing? You ERPing in WvW bro?

[Boh.4568]

Surprisingly, I agree. If you manage to kill the scout before they give the alarm, you earned the advantage of that scout not being able to give the alarm in map chat, since he's a corpse.

Unfortunately I don't see a solution, because the black screen would be a terrible idea if you die during zerg fights. The closest thing could be disabling chat when you are fully dead, but at that point you can just TP to spawn and start yelling "INVADERS" seconds after you died.

[CafPow.1542]

2 hours ago, Boh.4568 said:

Surprisingly, I agree. If you manage to kill the scout before they give the alarm, you earned the advantage of that scout not being able to give the alarm in map chat, since he's a corpse.

Unfortunately I don't see a solution, because the black screen would be a terrible idea if you die during zerg fights. The closest thing could be disabling chat when you are fully dead, but at that point you can just TP to spawn and start yelling "INVADERS" seconds after you died.

Even if you would disable chat, even let’s say for 5 minutes after ress:

how about all those guilds that have scouts in their voice, they won’t stop talking and anet can’t do anything.

You have an interesting point but i don’t think you can adress that as a dev (nor should you).

[Mixes.7164]

"I died and then contributed nothing to my team.... That's so broken!!" genuinely nobody cares if you lay there dead and tell map chat there's 10 people. It'd be more useful if you ported back to pve than laying there dead 

[TheIceman.1039]

On 8/13/2024 at 11:58 AM, Anov.4237 said:

Just used it myself and Its not fair. When u die the screen should turn "black".

That's a good idea. But instead of a black screen, you could be forced to listen to this song. Hiiri This would reduce that time floating on the ground.

[TheGrimm.5624]

2 hours ago, TheIceman.1039 said:

That's a good idea. But instead of a black screen, you could be forced to listen to this song. Hiiri This would reduce that time floating on the ground.

I was in this thread enough that I was just going to just watch to see where players went, but , but OMG, yes that song would do it. Unless they were on some serious altered reality. I did listen to it all. I am going to go find safety dance on youtube to replace those braincells. 

Edit: Ok it actually took some Johnny Cash, SKALD and Lil Sis Nora to purge that out. 

Edited August 19 by TheGrimm.5624