Necro Spear...

[Bale.3851]

Can i get my money back?

I have to add they should pay me to play this lackluster version of what ever kind of niche this weapon is supposed to be.

 

Edited August 22 by Bale.3851

[KrHome.1920]

I like it. Bought Kamohoali'i Kotaki after 30 minutes of WvW roaming.

Sword/wh + spear + speed relic power reaper is viable on marauder, celestial, soldier .. it just works 👍

Spear 4, 5, 4 ,3 ,2 combo from 1200 range is sick.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

On 8/21/2024 at 8:19 AM, Apokriphos.7042 said:

I’ve thoroughly tested the spear in WvW after the recent updates, both solo and in organized group play.

They did introduce some life force generation and a modest might boost on skill 5, but these changes are hardly enough to make the spear competitive. Compared to the Greatsword and Axe/Focus combos, the spear is far worse, especially in burst scenarios when you want to hit a moving target. When it comes to mobility, the spear is especially bad—you just can't keep pace with enemies when they start kiting you. Additionally, the spear skill 4 throw is obvious and slow. It is still easily dodged, and when your enemy knows you will use this, and as its the only ranged part of the kit, they DEFINITELY will, it will get dodged by any competent player, or simply avoided.

The instant-cast teleport skill is another major issue. It lacks any defensive utility, which means you’re left completely exposed when you port to an enemy. This often results in getting obliterated before you can capitalize on the gap-closing maneuver, as you 'bring your bag to them'. Even more surprising is that the spear's overall DPS is lower than other niche weapons, making it a poor choice for sustained damage. I was shocked to find that ArcDps rated axe/focus & dagger/focus as higher dps over a 1v1 fight. 

Finally, they’ve nerfed the boon removal on skill 5 from *** three boons down to two***, making it even less rewarding. The Extirpate boon inhibition ability still gets eaten up by 3 stacks of might, making that part pointless as well.

 

All in all, these changes have made the spear a useless option for most situations in WvW.

I tested it a lot in WvW (small havoc to Zerg) myself and have quite the opposite experience. I found spear quite burst with a combo I was using., all done within seconds of initial fighting.  So much so that I rarely needed to even swap weapons.  So I see the weapon as good. 
 

On your question about the confused emoji. If you haven’t figured that out most people use that to either disagree or dislike your post since that’s the only “negative” emoji posters can use. 

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwEQjNrMC2BThdxGxR1681D-DyQYho+86eHKMkzICpaFqKZOAqA-e
 

This is the first build I found where Spear feels good to use in open world. Note, this is about the flow of the weapon, not necessarily its damage output.  A couple of trait and equipment variations can make this feel like a decent AlacDPS for power fights, I think.  Uses Claw relic.  Spear also seems fine for using on Heal Scourge.

Edited August 22 by Drarnor Kunoram.5180

[Brujeria.7536]

I think whats really offputting is the predictable projectile of skill 4 and also the speed of the animation. Lets say you are in a prolonged fight and want to use skill 4 to reset skill 2 cooldown, it seems like such a long time to do so. Apart from that you could add some other things to make the weapon more flexible or to enable different combos or playstyles.

 

I would change skill 4 somewhat like this:

Groundtargeted: Throw a spear to the target location causing chill and  vulnerability and tethering all foes near the point of impact for 3 seconds. Thether range 300

Recast still a teleport but it changes based on the amount of tethered targets:

0 Tethered targets = teleport directly to the spear and refresh skill 2 cooldown

1 tethered target = teleport directly to the tethered target, gain 3 soulshards, refresh skill 2 cooldown and gain 1 stack of stability for 5 seconds

2 or more tethered targets = teleport directly to the spear and pull all tethered targets to its location. Cause weakness and gain 1 stack of stability per foe for 5 seconds and refresh skill 2 cooldown

 

For skill 3:

- change into a skill with 2 charges

- add a small leap 180ish range

- add: whenever you gain a soul shard while at 6 soulshards reduce the cooldown of this skill by 1 second

 

For skill 5:

- add "While you are at 6 soulshards and would gain another soulshard apply the siphon and damage of that soulshard to a random foe in range. This only works if Extirpate is not on cooldown"

[Ryndor.2081]

40 minutes ago, Brujeria.7536 said:

I think whats really offputting is the predictable projectile of skill 4 and also the speed of the animation. Lets say you are in a prolonged fight and want to use skill 4 to reset skill 2 cooldown, it seems like such a long time to do so. Apart from that you could add some other things to make the weapon more flexible or to enable different combos or playstyles.

 

I would change skill 4 somewhat like this:

Groundtargeted: Throw a spear to the target location causing chill and  vulnerability and tethering all foes near the point of impact for 3 seconds. Thether range 300

Recast still a teleport but it changes based on the amount of tethered targets:

0 Tethered targets = teleport directly to the spear and refresh skill 2 cooldown

1 tethered target = teleport directly to the tethered target, gain 3 soulshards, refresh skill 2 cooldown and gain 1 stack of stability for 5 seconds

2 or more tethered targets = teleport directly to the spear and pull all tethered targets to its location. Cause weakness and gain 1 stack of stability per foe for 5 seconds and refresh skill 2 cooldown

 

For skill 3:

- change into a skill with 2 charges

- add a small leap 180ish range

- add: whenever you gain a soul shard while at 6 soulshards reduce the cooldown of this skill by 1 second

 

For skill 5:

- add "While you are at 6 soulshards and would gain another soulshard apply the siphon and damage of that soulshard to a random foe in range. This only works if Extirpate is not on cooldown"

Great ideas. I would rather have skill 3 be 300. The same as skill 2. 

[KrHome.1920]

I have zero issues landing skill 4. The only skill that misses often is 3 because of the short range but that's fine considering how much of an impact that skill has. Spear 4 is unblockable so you want to throw it into a blocking target. A blocking target does not dodge. Blocks typically last 3 seconds which is the flip time of spear 3 which means you can  teleport and burst right at the end of the block. The weapon is the most thought-out weapon anet ever made for necro. It's great. Every skill makes sense.

[Asum.4960]

11 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

I have zero issues landing skill 4. The only skill that misses often is 3 because of the short range but that's fine considering how much of an impact that skill has. Spear 4 is unblockable so you want to throw it into a blocking target. A blocking target does not dodge. Blocks typically last 3 seconds which is the flip time of spear 3 which means you can  teleport and burst right at the end of the block. The weapon is the most thought-out weapon anet ever made for necro. It's great. Every skill makes sense.

While calling this the most thought-out weapon Anet ever made for Necro specifically does feel somewhat like praising a child for making their greatest leap yet, stepping up a curb, you are not wrong. In isolation (no pun intended), it's an alright weapon. In context of the tools Necromancer already has, and especially those it is still lacking, either in options or at all, it's a baffling addition. 

Some esp. PvP and WvW roamers might be in the honeymoon phase with Isolate rn, which I give about a week or two until it's universal knowledge in those modes to look out for and dodge that one single skill to shut down Spear Necro. No one is talking about how amazing Dark Path/Pursuit is for a reason either, relying both on a target and hit is not a good form of mobility. 

Now I've already given my mechanical Feedback earlier, but that aside what bother's me some is how low the community standards are at this point. I mean even just visually - look at Elementalist Spear, Mesmer, Rev, Engie.. Where are the Necromancer effects doing.. Necromancy? Why is Necromancer running around just poking and slashing things with conventional weapons these days? When did Strike Damage become the primary tool/theme of Necro?

Where are the grand displays of Death Magic, Blood Magic and/or Curses - the original core themes of Necromancer? 

That's what Necromancer was about in Guild Wars - summoning Hordes of undead Minions,  Supporting Allies and themselves with accursed Blood Rites and being the Masters of Curses, Conditions, debilitating enemies and turning their boons against them. 

When was the last time we got any of that proper? Scourge in 2017? Now we are just a lame green Warrior/Thief, except without their active defenses and mobility, and somehow no one seems bothered by how incredibly low effort and unimaginative every addition to this class since PoF has been.

It's like no one even has the imagination anymore to think of what could be, so we take stabbing foes with a Spear (at less than Dagger range) on a class whose theme is Necromancy and somehow are okay with that. The bar is so low. 

Mechanically redundant, thematically bankrupt. 

[felincyriac.5981]

1 hour ago, Asum.4960 said:

While calling this the most thought-out weapon Anet ever made for Necro specifically does feel somewhat like praising a child for making their greatest leap yet, stepping up a curb, you are not wrong. In isolation (no pun intended), it's an alright weapon. In context of the tools Necromancer already has, and especially those it is still lacking, either in options or at all, it's a baffling addition. 

Some esp. PvP and WvW roamers might be in the honeymoon phase with Isolate rn, which I give about a week or two until it's universal knowledge in those modes to look out for and dodge that one single skill to shut down Spear Necro. No one is talking about how amazing Dark Path/Pursuit is for a reason either, relying both on a target and hit is not a good form of mobility. 

Now I've already given my mechanical Feedback earlier, but that aside what bother's me some is how low the community standards are at this point. I mean even just visually - look at Elementalist Spear, Mesmer, Rev, Engie.. Where are the Necromancer effects doing.. Necromancy? Why is Necromancer running around just poking and slashing things with conventional weapons these days? When did Strike Damage become the primary tool/theme of Necro?

Where are the grand displays of Death Magic, Blood Magic and/or Curses - the original core themes of Necromancer? 

That's what Necromancer was about in Guild Wars - summoning Hordes of undead Minions,  Supporting Allies and themselves with accursed Blood Rites and being the Masters of Curses, Conditions, debilitating enemies and turning their boons against them. 

When was the last time we got any of that proper? Scourge in 2017? Now we are just a lame green Warrior/Thief, except without their active defenses and mobility, and somehow no one seems bothered by how incredibly low effort and unimaginative every addition to this class since PoF has been.

It's like no one even has the imagination anymore to think of what could be, so we take stabbing foes with a Spear (at less than Dagger range) on a class whose theme is Necromancy and somehow are okay with that. The bar is so low. 

Mechanically redundant, thematically bankrupt. 

the point about people learning to dodge spear 4 is especially true.

 

It might be easy to land spear 4 now, but once people learn that nec spear only has 1 ranged attack and start dodging it? Yh you'll be poking the air lol 

[KrHome.1920]

1 hour ago, felincyriac.5981 said:

the point about people learning to dodge spear 4 is especially true.

It might be easy to land spear 4 now, but once people learn that nec spear only has 1 ranged attack and start dodging it? Yh you'll be poking the air lol 

You have a second weaponset. The things both you mentioned are real from day 1 and that's why I said

Sword/wh + spear + speed relic power reaper is viable on marauder, celestial, soldier .. it just works

in my initial post. You need speed relic, you need swiftness, you need the 2 sword leaps, you need the sword range and you need reaper cause RS2 leap and shroud defense.

What's the point of looking at spear (or any weapon) isolated? It is one of your many tools and you use it when you can land it. The burst combo destroys cele catalysts or kiting/blocking willbenders when you set it up properly. It fails poorly, when you use it as an opener. Knowing when to use it separates a good from a bad player.

Edited August 23 by KrHome.1920

[felincyriac.5981]

13 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

You have a second weaponset. The things both you mentioned are real from day 1 and that's why I said

Sword/wh + spear + speed relic power reaper is viable on marauder, celestial, soldier .. it just works

in my initial post. You need speed relic, you need swiftness, you need the 2 sword leaps, you need the sword range and you need reaper cause RS2 leap and shroud defense.

What's the point of looking at spear (or any weapon) isolated? It is one of your many tools and you use it when you can land it. The burst combo destroys cele catalysts or kiting/blocking willbenders when you set it up properly. It fails poorly, when you use it as an opener. Knowing when to use it separates a good from a bad player.

this is just a recipe to get cc'd and blown up vs good players, most necro builds will destroy roamers in wvw. You can probably swap spear with axe/focus and destroy people too, because well... the average roamer isn't very good.  Your worst matchups, thieves for example, are harder on spear coz of their greater mobility and dodge spam (and in the case of thief, blind spam), I'd rather pick staff in these matchups, though to be fair you'll still loose.

I'm trying cele harb with sw/sw + spear, using cavalier runes + centaur relic, it works too, but again, cele harb doesn't even need weapons to destroy the average roamer...

Its great to see you are having fun though, thats what roaming is about, but roaming builds are wildly unbalanced. Try spear in spvp. 

[Kulvar.1239]

Either Extirpate should give Fury instead of Might, or Addle should Fear instead of Daze.

[KrHome.1920]

2 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

Either Extirpate should give Fury instead of Might, or Addle should Fear instead of Daze.

OP in the competitive modes. This would boost blood magic soulreaping reaper to broken levels. They removed fury from chilled to the bone in these modes for a reason. So you have to pick spite or curses for self fury which significally weakens your self sustain (either shroud/mobility or barrier/heal). Blood bank has become an extremely strong trait with the buff to YSIM! (6k heal at 16s cooldown) and the mechanics of sword and spear.

Edited August 23 by KrHome.1920

[Kulvar.1239]

51 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

OP in the competitive modes. This would boost blood magic soulreaping reaper to broken levels. They removed fury from chilled to the bone in these modes for a reason. So you have to pick spite or curses for self fury which significally weakens your self sustain (either shroud/mobility or barrier/heal). Blood bank has become an extremely strong trait with the buff to YSIM! (6k heal at 16s cooldown) and the mechanics of sword and spear.

Invalid argument. Splits between PvE, WvW, and PvP exist to handle that.
I also said they could put Fear on Addle to trigger Dread

Edited August 23 by Kulvar.1239

[XECOR.2814]

#4 needs blind on flip.

#3 needs 300 range same as #2.

#2 needs better cone of attack and tracking without getting cancelled.

#1 autos need to be 180 range rather than 130.

Said this many times before as feedback.

Now people are playing it and realizing the same.

[WarGhost.6547]

On 8/21/2024 at 1:53 PM, ShadowX.6348 said:

All in all works very nice, but, at least, the only thing i wish we get is an AA kite skill, like Revenant has.

Totally agree!
Skill 1 should be a kite skill like Revenant, 1 range and 2 melee chain attacks.

[Soiluna.9845]

On 8/21/2024 at 1:53 PM, ShadowX.6348 said:

Skill 1:  Dark Slash, must be change to a Range Throwing Attack, 1 stack of Poison Condition for 6 seconds, 3 Targets, Range 600, Cast 0.75 sec, and max dmg should be reduce by 3%(cause of the poison condition), and not a Chain skill. With a name like Dark Spike or Poison Spike(or any other name).
The Chain Attacks Deadly Slice and Sinister Stab should be the same as they are now,  except the range should be 170 insted of 130, and only activate the chain attacks when in the range of 170. ( Deadly Slice should change the animation from Dark Slash, and maybe a name like Deadly Slash) and the animations would be a throwing spear for range, and a slash and a stab for melee. 
For short should work as Revenant Skill 1 Spear.

That's a really good change! I agree with it.

Edited August 24 by Soiluna.9845

[calva.2914]

Honestly if they just increased the range on #1 and #3 a little bit it would make the weapon feel a lot better. 

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

The range and the slowness of it is what's holding it back. I don't see how any of you all think it's fairly even "good"

At best it should've been a ranged weapon with some melee flip parts to it.

Necro spear compared to other spears is lack luster.

Edited August 24 by porkchopMCgee.6193

[calva.2914]

17 minutes ago, porkchopMCgee.6193 said:

The range and the slowness of it is what's holding it back. I don't see how any of you all think it's fairly even "good"

At best it should've been a ranged weapon with some melee flip parts to it.

Necro spear compared to other spears is lack luster.

Well I was someone who was looking forward to the engineer shortbow…so the bar is pretty low for me

Edited August 24 by calva.2914

[Urgotsfangirl.2408]

PvP:

auto: no comment

Skill2 : need less after cast

skill3 : feels like no real skill need huge change

Skill4: need either resitance on port or 1sec stab it happened like 90% time porting was always adavantge for enemies because they always can predict this.

skill5: can be fine depends on situation

[Vile.4387]

56 minutes ago, Urgotsfangirl.2408 said:

PvP:

auto: no comment

Skill2 : need less after cast

skill3 : feels like no real skill need huge change

Skill4: need either resitance on port or 1sec stab it happened like 90% time porting was always adavantge for enemies because they always can predict this.

skill5: can be fine depends on situation

Id rather 4 have evade on teleport. I don't want to be feared while porting.

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

So many things wrong with this spear and "expansions" they took ESO module on expansions and still deliver less content 

[Urgotsfangirl.2408]

48 minutes ago, Vile.4387 said:

Id rather 4 have evade on teleport. I don't want to be feared while porting.

yeah this can also work.  the port is on paper nice,  but its really inconssitant on nerco

[SPESHAL.9106]

I haven't seen a single spear in sPvP....in the history of all expansions of this game and other games...I don't think I've ever encountered that....It's totally new and extinct at the same time.