Stealth is broken mechanic. Change my mind.

[ninao.1208]

Stealth is broken mechanic. Change my mind.

 

[manu.7539]

Sorry, I will not change your mind, its in my top 3 of wvw insanity with boonballs and pulls. Ok, going to add alt accounts, so in my top 4 😛

[CafPow.1542]

I personally have less problems with stealth than with broken mobility . (Cause let’s be clear, it’s mostly thieves.)

but stealth can also be an issue. It’s just… after stealth the dude has to re-engage. You see it coming. It’s way easier than being bursted down out of the blue where you can’t react. My opinion.

 

still: i feel like „unblockable“ and „reveal“ (in form of something like „sic‘ em“) should be implemented more to counter these. Not that every class needs that. But… a bit more counters would be good i think. In general.

like…:

6 hours ago, manu.7539 said:

boonballs and pulls

Thise 2. are a problem but at least, stability and boonrip / booncorrupt are more common and those are the counters. (Okay the booncounters should be stronger aswell but i hope you get what i mean)

at least when it comes to pulls. Everyone has a bit of stability. Even necros have some. If you plan to stand on a wall to defend against a zerg, equip some.

what am i gonna equip when i fight a teef against his stealth? There you go.

[MagicMike.5802]

Stealth is not a broken mechanic.

Change my mind.

[Dawdler.8521]

39 minutes ago, MagicMike.5802 said:

Change my mind.

Cant change it when they can’t find it.

Wait that sounds like a thief 🤔

[Triptaminas.4789]

10 hours ago, ninao.1208 said:

Stealth is broken mechanic. Change my mind.

 

Killing avg thief is as easy as killing npc

[Arheundel.6451]

Not as broken as condi spam from cele bunkers...pretty close but still not as broken

[cryorion.9532]

Stealth spam just needs more reveal on skills. But even then, thieves will just run away, so the overtuned mobility is an actual issue imo. Halve the Shadowstep range from 1200 to 600 and watch thief players reroll to willbender. 🤡

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

30 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Stealth spam just needs more reveal on skills. But even then, thieves will just run away, so the overtuned mobility is an actual issue imo. Halve the Shadowstep range from 1200 to 600 and watch thief players reroll to willbender. 🤡

A lot of teefs already did reroll to willbender though. 
Once a coward, always a coward I guess...

[Velkix.6825]

With cele, stealth is ok. So every stealth player keeps asking to remove cele. I would be fine if both stealth and cele are removed. 🤣

[kash.9213]

2 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Stealth spam just needs more reveal on skills. But even then, thieves will just run away, so the overtuned mobility is an actual issue imo. Halve the Shadowstep range from 1200 to 600 and watch thief players reroll to willbender. 🤡

Shadowstep range is really forgiving. I wouldn't be mad if it was brought down to around 600. My Wells cast time are dicey but the range is applicable to the majority of skills and effects going on, especially if you have a weapons skill to compliment it. I'm mostly covering people in blobs so I can't speak for others who are hitting up different encounters more, but between Wells or Death's Retreat and Roll for Initiative and then maybe something like Flanking Strike, it's usually enough to peel out of something. If I get focused or outplayed that's fair. I would however rather keep responsive balancing away from Initiative budget and just adjust a skill on it's own. 

I'd like to see how a test would play out of stealth opacity changing based on proximity to enemies. Give it some residual in and out effect so people can still stealth up close to set something up but would need to act sooner than later. I think it would still allow a set up for strong opening sequences if someone is trying to one shot and still allow masked map travel but not be so disruptive to the flow for everyone. Again though, that might too much on people who use stealth more and maybe cause other problems. 

Edited August 27 by kash.9213

[coro.3176]

What even stealths much these days? I know Deadeye is annoying, but it's out of stealth a lot - it's just the constant repositioning and target breaking while spamming damage that is frustrating.

Mes builds stealth occasionally, but not for long. Ranger has some short ones. Engi doesn't run sneak gyro ever since it was nerfed to all hell. Um. What else?

[TheGrimm.5624]

16 hours ago, ninao.1208 said:

Stealth is broken mechanic. Change my mind.

 

Stealth or macro stealth? Not the same thing. So will go with stealth for the discussion.

• Mez are more welcome in groups versus Thieves
• Willbenders
• Is it invis or the target break that is more of an issue
• Nike Warriors
• Vindicator
• Lockdown rangers
• Guards
• DE
• Renegades
• Harbi
• Bunkers
• Tanks
• Condi
• Oneshot builds
• Night capping
• Zergs
• Clouds versus groups
• Havocs vs roamers

Do we need to go on?

So the real question, is if stealth is causing you an issue, what are you doing about it? Did you build an anti-stealth counter build? If not, why not? Did you grab a battle buddy to help address issues your build is lacking?

[Kulvar.1239]

On 8/27/2024 at 2:19 AM, ninao.1208 said:

Stealth is broken mechanic. Change my mind.

Stealth is not broken. Stealth SPAMMING capability is broken.

It's so broken that Thief got nerfed into uselesness (hence why they're unwelcomed in zergs) and need to abuse stealth spamming to compensate for the nerfs which is bad for everybody.

[Jski.6180]

Its broken or unbalanced when its combined with passive support of healing ,boons and cleaning as well as having high mobility of both shadow steps and super speed.

But what makes it truly "broken" as in buged it eats skill animations. I do not think anet is able to code there game to show effects hitting stealth targets.

Edited August 29 by Jski.6180

[XenesisII.1540]

Stealth is a terribad mechanic in gw2, one of the worse I've seen in games with no proper counters to balance it. Should have never built around that mechanic, it should have been something to get you in or out of combat with high cooldowns and low durations, not an entire spammable game play around it that has little/awkward counters to it. No reason to change your mind OP, we've been saying it for 12 years.

 

4 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

Stealth is not broken. Stealth SPAMMING capability is broken.

It's so broken that Thief got nerfed into uselesness (hence why they're unwelcomed in zergs) and need to abuse stealth spamming to compensate for the nerfs which is bad for everybody.

They're not welcomed in zergs because they can't provide a number of things that zergs need, aoe damage, mass cleanse, mass heal, boon spam like the other classes in the zerg comp can do multiple of these at once. Stealth for zergs isn't important, not even veil or mass invis gets used that often. Not being good for zergs is practically the only negative balance they get for having spammable stealth.

Specter was their chance to give them a proper support spec and instead they turned it into a single target support with pbaoes that will get you killed in zergs. Also anet was dumb enough to create a guardian thief spec, that has more mobility and can spike just as well, and has better defenses, aoes, condition, top boons, and access to specs for the one perma locked in spot in zergs because of stability. Why play a thief when you could play a guard instead and get willbenders for ganking, and guardian/dragonhunter/firebrands/willbender for zerging. 

🤷‍♂️☕

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

Stealth is not broken. Stealth SPAMMING capability is broken.

This is an issue, especially when combined with players setting up macro's to do it.

[Kulvar.1239]

34 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

They're not welcomed in zergs because they can't provide a number of things that zergs need, aoe damage, mass cleanse, mass heal, boon spam like the other classes in the zerg comp can do multiple of these at once. Stealth for zergs isn't important, not even veil or mass invis gets used that often. Not being good for zergs is practically the only negative balance they get for having spammable stealth.

That's what I said. Thief is nerfed into having no useful thing BUT stealth spamming. When ANet should be doing the opposite.

Make stealth Thief F3 skill with a 20s cooldown and change most Thief skills that give stealth to do something else and rebalance Thief into having proper tools to deal with various situations.

[MedievalThings.5417]

On 8/27/2024 at 10:42 AM, coro.3176 said:

What even stealths much these days? I know Deadeye is annoying, but it's out of stealth a lot - it's just the constant repositioning and target breaking while spamming damage that is frustrating.

Mes builds stealth occasionally, but not for long. Ranger has some short ones. Engi doesn't run sneak gyro ever since it was nerfed to all hell. Um. What else?

Most of the daredevils you see (or don't lol) spam stealth.  Not all are running shadow arts but almost all (ab)use stealth regularly.  The problem is that stacking stealth stacks everything else...superspeed, prot, blind, regen/cleanse, etc.  The problem is less about stealth though, cause while a lot of the forum is unhappy with stealth, almost all of those complaints would vanish if daredevil had 2 dodges, which it should.  Mobility isn't inherently a thief problem anymore but Anet managed to give thief a 2nd "get out of jail free" card in portal, which it also shouldn't have.  I personally don't find stealth that bad, I would rather they tackle the mobility creep and imbalance in traits/abilities first and that isn't just thief.

Edited August 29 by MedievalThings.5417

[kash.9213]

38 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

That's what I said. Thief is nerfed into having no useful thing BUT stealth spamming. When ANet should be doing the opposite.

Make stealth Thief F3 skill with a 20s cooldown and change most Thief skills that give stealth to do something else and rebalance Thief into having proper tools to deal with various situations.

Various tools like mobility? People in this forum want thieves deleted for that alone. If a build doesn't stand still to get melted by consistent max rate of fire at max range and radius then people here call that broken. When Anet feels like stealth or mobility needs to be regulated then they'll regulate them and they have. They're not shy at all about nerfing thieves and WvW has been the inspiration for many of those nerfs so people need to quit acting like they're championing thieves when it's historically the other way around. 

The most they need to do is mess around with some stealth durations to break up chaining it, if that even, with the nukes constantly going off in WvW. While I personally would want to see less but more surgical and impactful stealth, Anet might not feel like that needs to be done yet on a large scale. 

Edited August 29 by kash.9213

[MaLong.2079]

On 8/26/2024 at 8:19 PM, ninao.1208 said:

Stealth is broken mechanic. Change my mind.

 

Think of it as playing the game in easy mode. Nothing wrong with that, but it is not for everyone.

[ascii.1369]

I think the fix for stealth is kind of easy and super low effort in terms of dev time. Just change revealed to apply any time you leave stealth while in combat. Doesn’t matter if you brake it, get revealed or it just runs out, you always get hit with revealed if you are in combat. Then just buff the specs that underperform as a result (and let’s be honest here, thief is the only one truly affected).

[Jski.6180]

They need to make smoke field leaps into an aura and not an stealth OR foce an hit on the leap attk it self so you can counter the the field stealthing by making them hit an target (keep blast field stealth as you can counter this effect but simply standing in the aoe of the blast.) The fix for the "spam stealth."

I am tempted to say movment effects should brake stealth but only after they would land an hit (stealth needs keep you able to land big hits the major point for having an stealth effect in the game) but when it comes to def stealth that becomes the issues at the very least stealth should not let you run away or even hide for an full heal and or reset of an fight and keeping ppl in combat.

Its the oddest thing that only a few aoe show where the stealth player are it as if anet forgot to update things to show hits. Hiding hits vs stealth ppl hides feed back for the players making any ideal of using AOE as an counter to stealth pointless. Stealth should not eat/hide animations of players attks. We also needs more animations of hits even in they are just small bust of fire lighting etc.. or combat just becomes less fun over all.

[Dawdler.8521]

40 minutes ago, Jski.6180 said:

They need to make smoke field leaps into an aura and not an stealth OR foce an hit on the leap attk it self so you can counter the the field stealthing by making them hit an target (keep blast field stealth as you can counter this effect but simply standing in the aoe of the blast.) The fix for the "spam stealth."

Why not just delete the field on pistol 5?

Anet has had absolutely no problem in first giving the engineer an elite skill smokefield then deleting it and nerfing the stealth on an elite skill into the literal ground. And they did all that in the span of 3 years - gyros has been “reworked” even before that.

Thief has had its pistol 5 smokefield basically untouched since release (its only seen a few buffs since 2014) when its the single most egregious thief skill that exist for abusing stealth.

I mean… something something obvious bias by devs.

[Kulvar.1239]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

They need to make smoke field leaps into an aura and not an stealth.

Smoke + Blast could do an AoE Blinded (3s).
Smoke + Leap could make your next attack apply Blinded (3s).