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Deranged 60+ hours on spear, with notes and suggestions.


Cuilan.7091

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Keeping it brief, the following is feedback, general comments, and suggestions towards spear. Overall its a solid weapon with some issues but it isn't a fundamentally flawed weapon and there a multitude of solutions that can improve overall spear gameplay. This weapon also outlies some issues when Engineer itself but that can be saved for a later topic but I would glance over them briefly at the end.

Most of my time has been spent in PvP and WvW, but also my entire time in JW with open world-PvE. Numerically it seems like a fine weapon and its great to actually deal Burn-Guard level of burn ticks.

Auto Chain - Stuck in 2012 Design

  • Somehow has an Evade frame on the 3rd Chain, which other weapons in the past had before but we're removed due to gameplay consistencies (Ranger Greatsword for example). On a purely offensive weapon it would make much more sense to have the evade baked into the Skill 4, which itself has a 1s cast time to provide some form of consistent defenses.
  • Having Burning or some other high-value offensive condition on the last Auto Chain would give merit to completing your attacks, in similar fashion to Guardian Axe Autos. 2 Bleeding and some Vulnerability doesn't have the impact to warrant the 3/4th second wind-up.
  • Various boons can be added too, Fury is such an option to better promote hybrid gameplay or Swiftness to better enable the Engineer to stick on their targets. 

Conduit Surge and Focus - Worse Willbender moves that's needed for 50% of your damage output

  • Design wise its a feast or famine situation if you're unable to properly land a Focus on a target. Which is good on paper but in practice where targets can be missed, evaded, invulnerable, or moving just slightly beyond your current range since this skill is split into inconsistent parts
    • The actual leap finisher is on the 2nd part of the dash, that only triggers if a target is nearby. 
  • This skill is Willbender's F1 with somehow worse tracking and reliability with its use. It should be reworked to a dash that ends with a sweeping strike that applies Focus to multiple targets. 
  • Having multiple Focus targets is definitely dangerous in its current iteration, but a possible rework can be in place that still plays into the thematic and spirit of Focus but keeps it balanced.
    • Conduit Surge dashes you forward, and ends with a sweeping strike that applies Focus to any targets struck
    • Focus - Successfully Spear attacks build focus on this target, up to 10 Stacks with a 5s Duration
    • Spear skills gain the following effects based on the amount of stacks 
      • Auto Chain 3rd Attack applies Confusion if the target is at or above 5 Stacks of Focus
      • Conduit Surge Burn duration is increased for each stack of Focus. Striking a target with Max stacks of Focus would also cause bleeding
      • Electric Artillery with its current bonus scaling with Focus stacks.
        • The concept of 'landing' Lighting Rod strikes would still apply with this new system as multiple strikes will increase the effectiveness of Electric Artillery
      • Rolling Skies will Launch any target at or above 5 Stacks of Focus. Targets at 10 stacks of Focus  would also be inflicted with Slowness
      • Focused Devastation strikes for each stack of Focus up to 5 times. This effect does not add to Focus. Targets at 10 stacks of Focus would take a delayed Confusion lighting strike at the end of Focused Devastation
    • This style of 'Focus' means that the Engineer can have multiple targets to focus from but would have to consistently attack their targets in order to gain the maximum effect on them. This also provides a level a build-up that's in the current iteration of spear where the Engineer will eventually end the fight if properly played but without the inconsistencies of the current Focus mechanics. 
    • Having a wider array of condition without relying on kits would also improve the weapons viability on competitive modes, but having them locked behind this renewed 'Focus' would make it less egregious, spammed, and more situational. (Looking at your Rev Spear and Necro Pistol)

Lighting Rod and Electric Artillery  - Precast and Fire

  • Current reward for successfully landing Lighting Rod is more of a bonus as its much more valid to precast and launch before you even engage (Or time it with a proper Conduit Surge or Devastator) 
    • Gaining barrier for each target struck with Lighting Rod would be a valid option in combat as it allows the Engineer to have some sustain when engaging in Melee, or they can opt for the precast to play it safe.
  • The cast should be instant, its more closer to a faux instant cast as Chemical Field on Purge Gyro's toolbelt. 
  • Electric Artillery should just be a ground target with a larger radius increase. With the addition of back casting added retroactively with the Expansion, the skill is currently a typical Engineer kit skill with extra steps. This would also means that Electric Artillery would not fail to cast if targets are out of range and the skill expires before you even through it. 

Rolling Skies - Extremely useless, can't even make a joke out of it.

  • Similar design to Warrior Staff 4 but with somehow longer cast times and a tighter cone to affect targets. 
    • To differentiate the skill further, there should be an after shock effect that damage and applies the Cripple after as the Cripple's duration is mostly used up during the stun effect. 
    • To continue with Focus, this still should also apply Focus to all targets to provide another method of applying Focus
  • As mentioned above, the Evades from the Auto Chain should be placed here as there is no active defenses on the weapon. Making this skill evade means that the Engineer has a choice between defensive or offensive use.
  • There is clearly an explosive effect when the skill is used but there is no explosion effect. Its a minor addition since this skill is already filled with enough utility. 

Devastator and Focused Devastation - extremely fast engineer moving at incredibly hihg speeds. 

  • Landing this skill is the biggest payoff and the one of the fattest hits in the game and without it this entire weapon would be useless. 
    • There is also a tech option you can do by stow-casting this skill, putting it on a 3s CD but allowing you to keep the mobility. The speed that it enables allows you to truly zoom across the map when paired with Conduit Surge.
    • This interaction is clearly not intended at all (You do have Harbinger's stow casts as well) but it definitely adds a level of skill and high mobility to an already hyper-offensive weapon with zero defense. 
    • If this functionality were to be kept, it might be nice to split this skill into two parts
      • First part would be a leap that does no damage on a low cooldown and grants to a flip skill 2nd part for a brief duration
      • The second part is an evasive strike that causes the Devastator attack and puts the entire skill on full cooldown
      • This two part functionality would keep this high mobility but allow the engineer to properly reposition itself for a better attack as the current iteration is still rather unwieldly to use at 600 range. 

 

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I dont dare to test this weapon in WvW. The majority of the damage comes from the focus and with the poor base range combined with S2 not working as intended, for me this weapon is just a CC glorifier. If you manage to keep your target CCed in place for 5 sec so you can apply both focus + S5 and some more, then yes it is a strong weapon. But the reality isnt that.

 

As for PvE, I am actually fine with the current version. My only complain is to fix S2 not working properly. Additionally if they could boost up the range a bit from 130 to idk 160-200 but that's like QoL.

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@Cuilan.7091 I fought you for a match in PvP I think while you were using this.   It seemed hard for you to position yourself to take advantage of the spear as I chad no interest in being in mele range of you.   While you had it out I could pew freely at you and the weapon doesn't have a defensive, also it gives you no stab so once you brought it out I could then counter with lighting field and stun.  

I tried it a few times and when you line up someone who's under your skill level it can really go to town on them... but against savvier folks I had a hard time living long enough to get to use it in the proximity it needs.   I ran it with a 4 gyro build to leverage the quickness.... which almost made it work.

Also having to get in that close as an engi, without any defensives on the weapon itself seemed difficult to do against some of the other classes.  How did you feel it performed in PvP?  I feel you have to get really fortunate with your positioning to make it work, and if you don't land it your basically your a sitting duck to the imminent CC you are about to recieve.

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18 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

I dont dare to test this weapon in WvW. The majority of the damage comes from the focus and with the poor base range combined with S2 not working as intended, for me this weapon is just a CC glorifier. If you manage to keep your target CCed in place for 5 sec so you can apply both focus + S5 and some more, then yes it is a strong weapon. But the reality isnt that.

 

As for PvE, I am actually fine with the current version. My only complain is to fix S2 not working properly. Additionally if they could boost up the range a bit from 130 to idk 160-200 but that's like QoL.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

@Cuilan.7091 I fought you for a match in PvP I think while you were using this.   It seemed hard for you to position yourself to take advantage of the spear as I chad no interest in being in mele range of you.   While you had it out I could pew freely at you and the weapon doesn't have a defensive, also it gives you no stab so once you brought it out I could then counter with lighting field and stun.  

I tried it a few times and when you line up someone who's under your skill level it can really go to town on them... but against savvier folks I had a hard time living long enough to get to use it in the proximity it needs.   I ran it with a 4 gyro build to leverage the quickness.... which almost made it work.

Also having to get in that close as an engi, without any defensives on the weapon itself seemed difficult to do against some of the other classes.  How did you feel it performed in PvP?  I feel you have to get really fortunate with your positioning to make it work, and if you don't land it your basically your a sitting duck to the imminent CC you are about to recieve.

Engineer players have been so used to glassing users that they seem to have forgotten 90% of other trait and skill options in the game that can fill in the void with the lack of defenses. Rightfully someone of them are still awful but this weapon has the pressure to kill on its own and you can easily play old-school Alchemy / Elixir Gun builds and go for an attrition condition route with Rabids amulet in a PvP setting. This gives you Necromancer tier of bullying power if played properly but with the added bonus of Devastator ending fights. 

With the mobility trick I mention you have no issue with engaging targets as well.

With the suggestion I put forward with the original post they were meant to improve the current gameplay as there are some issues with consistencies but its no where as a bad weapon as people have painted it as. 

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Using Spear 2 is so fun if you like gambling.
If it misses, your DPS drops lower than the healer and you gotta do consistent DPS for 30 sec for your DPS to catch up again lmfao.

Edited by Tofu.1865
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6 hours ago, Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:

why would they put the evade frame on nr1 haha are these ppl high?

Probably, most of the time...
they thought of putting evade on it but not on Spear 5 that has a longass castime and animation, I still dont understand how they can masterfully polish Guardian, Necro and Ranger and not do the same thing for Engineers.

Do they have different designers for each class??

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8 hours ago, Tofu.1865 said:

Probably, most of the time...
they thought of putting evade on it but not on Spear 5 that has a longass castime and animation, I still dont understand how they can masterfully polish Guardian, Necro and Ranger and not do the same thing for Engineers.

Do they have different designers for each class??

In some cases yes.

Weapon can still use some work in the competitive modes, but in PvE, it is pretty good. At first I was pretty cool on it, but after adjusting my build a bit, I find I like it more than any other Engineer weapon.

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6 hours ago, lorddarkflare.9186 said:

In some cases yes.

Weapon can still use some work in the competitive modes, but in PvE, it is pretty good. At first I was pretty cool on it, but after adjusting my build a bit, I find I like it more than any other Engineer weapon.

I wouldn't say Spear is good, Spear 2 won't hit most bosses in Fractals, I went back again on Pistols, and I haven't seen a Spear Mech outdps me
And the spear 2 bug isn't just affecting fractals, it won't hit any mob that is medium-sized that has big or small hitboxes

One of the runs I had yesterday, we're both fractal savant just to be clear.
https://imgur.com/a/5Y3rg2n

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19 hours ago, Tofu.1865 said:

I wouldn't say Spear is good, Spear 2 won't hit most bosses in Fractals, I went back again on Pistols, and I haven't seen a Spear Mech outdps me
And the spear 2 bug isn't just affecting fractals, it won't hit any mob that is medium-sized that has big or small hitboxes

One of the runs I had yesterday, we're both fractal savant just to be clear.
https://imgur.com/a/5Y3rg2n

I have been keeping an eye on it, and yeah it is dodgier that I would like. But it is clearly a bug, and as long as it is fixed soon, we are good.

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3 hours ago, lorddarkflare.9186 said:

I have been keeping an eye on it, and yeah it is dodgier that I would like. But it is clearly a bug, and as long as it is fixed soon, we are good.

I hope so but I'm keeping my hopes real low because the "bug" is not even included in "Guild Wars 2: Janthir Wilds Launch Week Known Issues" thread.

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