MilkyTea.9042 Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 It was healthier for spvp compared to whatever this iteration of spellbreaker is. /s 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 they could really unnerf the signets, and only leave the trait icd there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingSwipe.3084 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Signet cata was far worse then SPB. Please dont look fondly at the black plague because we have an infestation of polio. 1 7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoWantsAHug.3186 Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 5 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said: Signet cata was far worse then SPB. Please dont look fondly at the black plague because we have an infestation of polio. Yea that scepter fire auto spam was legit the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Warrior staff is definitely up there though for an unhealthy weapon design 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowki.7194 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 (edited) At the time signet cata was around, support/cleanse was on the low side, as it was moslty power. Condi cata was completely broken, but it had a few solid counters that nobody knew about, or wanted to play. Just one purpose build cleanse support could hard counter 2 or 3 condi catas in group fights, especially if other team mates had some of their own cleanse, which most didn't. There is no current single spec that will hard counter 2 or 3 SPBs, couldn't adapt to it even if you wanted to. MATS is another thing, but sPVP, yes, bring back condi cata so I can single handedly counter multiple, the only time support was a hard carry every game 😜 Edited September 3 by Flowki.7194 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 (edited) On 9/1/2024 at 7:02 PM, MilkyTea.9042 said: It was healthier for spvp compared to whatever this iteration of spellbreaker is. /s kitten you almost got me Let's hope Anet brings a scalpel instead of a cleaver this patch, eles got their kitten signet cds increased because of that staunch auras fiasco Edited September 3 by Azure The Heartless.3261 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoWantsAHug.3186 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 16 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said: At the time signet cata was around, support/cleanse was on the low side, as it was moslty power. Condi cata was completely broken, but it had a few solid counters that nobody knew about, or wanted to play. Just one purpose build cleanse support could hard counter 2 or 3 condi catas in group fights, especially if other team mates had some of their own cleanse, which most didn't. There is no current single spec that will hard counter 2 or 3 SPBs, couldn't adapt to it even if you wanted to. MATS is another thing, but sPVP, yes, bring back condi cata so I can single handedly counter multiple, the only time support was a hard carry every game 😜 Mate when u 5 stack cata in a mAT, there are no solid counters. You say mAT vs ranked. But mAT is a much stronger showing of what's OP. Anything broken in mAT will be broken in ranked by nature. People try everything they can to win mAT. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowki.7194 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 (edited) 13 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said: Mate when u 5 stack cata in a mAT, there are no solid counters. You say mAT vs ranked. But mAT is a much stronger showing of what's OP. Anything broken in mAT will be broken in ranked by nature. People try everything they can to win mAT. What are you even talking about? sPVP has very little to do with MAT, 5 players of the same skill level, all one one team, in communication.. changes everything compared to sPVP wide MMR, 0 communication. Sigent cata was easy to play and broken.. but most of them sucked in sPVP, I never seen more than 3 on 1 team, so I got free wins playing a counter spec, which somehow triggered the fk out of you? 😜 #BRING BACK SIGNET CATA #MAKE CATA GREAT AGAIN #CATATOO #CATALIVESMATTER Edited September 4 by Flowki.7194 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowki.7194 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 3 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said: What are you even talking about? sPVP has very little to do with MAT, 5 players of the same skill level, all one one team, in communication.. changes everything compared to sPVP wide MMR, 0 communication. Sigent cata was easy to play and broken.. but most of them sucked in sPVP, I never seen more than 3 on 1 team, so I got free wins playing a counter spec, which somehow triggered the fk out of you? 😜 #BRING BACK SIGNET CATA #MAKE CATA GREAT AGAIN #CATATOO #CATALIVESMATTER #MYELEMYCHOICE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 On 9/1/2024 at 7:02 PM, MilkyTea.9042 said: It was healthier for spvp compared to whatever this iteration of spellbreaker is. /s Cause unkillable condi vomiting tempest isn't enough 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Crapface.7528 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 (edited) On 9/2/2024 at 1:02 AM, MilkyTea.9042 said: It was healthier for spvp compared to whatever this iteration of spellbreaker is. /s two words. "HELL" and "NO" Edited September 5 by Captain Crapface.7528 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingSwipe.3084 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 11 hours ago, shion.2084 said: Cause unkillable condi vomiting tempest isn't enough Dont mention that thing, its either dogwater bad or god-tier amazing with nothing in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoWantsAHug.3186 Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 On 9/4/2024 at 4:44 PM, Flowki.7194 said: What are you even talking about? sPVP has very little to do with MAT, 5 players of the same skill level, all one one team, in communication.. changes everything compared to sPVP wide MMR, 0 communication. Sigent cata was easy to play and broken.. but most of them sucked in sPVP, I never seen more than 3 on 1 team, so I got free wins playing a counter spec, which somehow triggered the fk out of you? 😜 #BRING BACK SIGNET CATA #MAKE CATA GREAT AGAIN #CATATOO #CATALIVESMATTER You aren't conceptualizing the idea of balance properly my friend. It's true, there are ranked noob stompers that have no business in mAT. They excel in what they do, but are flawed in some way. On a fundamental level, anything that's considered a top tier meta pick in mAT, will inherently translate equally to ranked play, if not be more dominant. That's how it works. The best builds with the most busted mechanics and interactions that have the least counterplay will be used in mAT because they're the best builds in the game. There are OP builds in ranked, then there are OP builds in mAT which will always be OP in ranked. A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not necessarily a square. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arazoth.7290 Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 2 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said: A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not necessarily a square. true 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowki.7194 Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 (edited) 8 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said: You aren't conceptualizing the idea of balance properly my friend. It's true, there are ranked noob stompers that have no business in mAT. They excel in what they do, but are flawed in some way. On a fundamental level, anything that's considered a top tier meta pick in mAT, will inherently translate equally to ranked play, if not be more dominant. That's how it works. The best builds with the most busted mechanics and interactions that have the least counterplay will be used in mAT because they're the best builds in the game. There are OP builds in ranked, then there are OP builds in mAT which will always be OP in ranked. A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not necessarily a square. Top tier MAT picks won't translate to sPVP picks, you are delusional. Right off the bat, any MAT support build will suck balls solo que sPVP, and are not even that optimal in duo, since you could just go another roam and wreck harder. I know that becuase I played a lot of support solo, and played a lot of roam/duelist. Second, I was following a very good vindi all season, he wrecks in duels, and ive played him multiple times in sPVP, he's not playing around. Yet, given the sPVP MMR, he was continually dunking into g3.. becuase like it or not, being an amazing player on a top tier build does not let you solo carry in sPVP with this MMR. In-fact I will go furhter than that. When I seen him in sPVP, thats a different thing, I shut his group fight down many times, and won more games than lost when facing him, even though he is by far better 1v1, and I was on a tier B spec at best. There was one game where he and the WB focused me, so I kited and soaked up all the damage, wasting their time. The rest of his DPS didn't follow the targets.. thats the bottom line of the story, and why top player>top spec means little in sPVP. Thirdly you don't even consider skill floor/ceiling of specs. Many specs past/present that were meta had a high skill floor/punishment rate, which meant only genuienly high skilled players could unlock the rewards of that spec. Basically, the rewards of those specs are back loaded, you suck, you die, you die, you die some more, you die a little more, then eventually, you wreck. There are then low skill floor specs that are meta, to which players can more linerly unlock the rewards from day one. sPVP is full of the low skill floor meta specs, always has, always will be. The only MAT specs that might translate to sPVP are ones that were outright broken AND at the same time, brainded to play; Signet cata, SPB.. that kind of kitten. Edited September 7 by Flowki.7194 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arazoth.7290 Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said: When I seen him in sPVP, thats a different thing, I shut his group fight down many times, and won more games than lost when facing him, even though he is by far better 1v1 Spoiler uhum 🧐 🧐 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoWantsAHug.3186 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 10 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said: Top tier MAT picks won't translate to sPVP picks, you are delusional. Right off the bat, any MAT support build will suck balls solo que sPVP, and are not even that optimal in duo, since you could just go another roam and wreck harder. I know that becuase I played a lot of support solo, and played a lot of roam/duelist. Second, I was following a very good vindi all season, he wrecks in duels, and ive played him multiple times in sPVP, he's not playing around. Yet, given the sPVP MMR, he was continually dunking into g3.. becuase like it or not, being an amazing player on a top tier build does not let you solo carry in sPVP with this MMR. In-fact I will go furhter than that. When I seen him in sPVP, thats a different thing, I shut his group fight down many times, and won more games than lost when facing him, even though he is by far better 1v1, and I was on a tier B spec at best. There was one game where he and the WB focused me, so I kited and soaked up all the damage, wasting their time. The rest of his DPS didn't follow the targets.. thats the bottom line of the story, and why top player>top spec means little in sPVP. Thirdly you don't even consider skill floor/ceiling of specs. Many specs past/present that were meta had a high skill floor/punishment rate, which meant only genuienly high skilled players could unlock the rewards of that spec. Basically, the rewards of those specs are back loaded, you suck, you die, you die, you die some more, you die a little more, then eventually, you wreck. There are then low skill floor specs that are meta, to which players can more linerly unlock the rewards from day one. sPVP is full of the low skill floor meta specs, always has, always will be. The only MAT specs that might translate to sPVP are ones that were outright broken AND at the same time, brainded to play; Signet cata, SPB.. that kind of kitten. This is totally not true at all. Support chrono is S tier mAT support and S tier solo queue pick. Also your entire comment you continously bring up player skill. I'm not talking about skill at all, im simply pointing out that an OP meta mAT spec will inherently be OP in sPvP. That's just the facts. Case and point, FA and signet cata mAT class stacking. This happens for a reason, bud. Because broken OP 0 counterplay builds transcend both formats. Ill give you the main reason why mAT builds will always be OP I'm both formats. People play random non optimal builds in ranked. This is exactly why and how the non mAT meta picks can be good in sPvP. If you are in a plat game and everyone else is a mAT meta pick, you're going to get dominated on your B tier spec. sPvP and mAT are the same game format, 5v5 conquest. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowki.7194 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 16 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said: Hide contents uhum 🧐 🧐 It wasnt you 😜 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arazoth.7290 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 21 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said: It wasnt you 😜 😺😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowki.7194 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 (edited) 8 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said: This is totally not true at all. Support chrono is S tier mAT support and S tier solo queue pick. Also your entire comment you continously bring up player skill. I'm not talking about skill at all, im simply pointing out that an OP meta mAT spec will inherently be OP in sPvP. That's just the facts. Case and point, FA and signet cata mAT class stacking. This happens for a reason, bud. Because broken OP 0 counterplay builds transcend both formats. Ill give you the main reason why mAT builds will always be OP I'm both formats. People play random non optimal builds in ranked. This is exactly why and how the non mAT meta picks can be good in sPvP. If you are in a plat game and everyone else is a mAT meta pick, you're going to get dominated on your B tier spec. sPvP and mAT are the same game format, 5v5 conquest. If you are the p1 support you have a higher chance of getting more g1-2 solo dps vs p1+ dps players.. if you think you can support through that kind of skill gap you are delusional. Most people who try to play full support solo in sPVP quickly see this reality, and play something else.. being why full support is BY FAR the least represented role in sPVP. Its like youre trolling now? No meta support has ever seen high rep in sPVP since I played the game. Core gaurd was the most common, but compared to any other role, you often go multiple games seing no support on either team, or only 1 support on 1 team. You are again missing the point because you lack comprehention skills, so I will make it more simple for you. Condi cata was easy to play and effective, games were full of condi catas. Power vindi was hard to play and effective, games were not full of power vinidis. That is a very simple and obserbable fact, all meta specs with a higher skill floor/more punishing for mistakes see FAR less representation in sPVP becuase far less players are good enough to use them. What you see instead, is an over representation of the lower skill floor/risky meta specs (hi hi reaper/spb) AND lower risk/skill floor builds that are not meta (lets say WB and virt). The average player on those none meta specs like WB-virt can be more of a threat than they could be on something like DE/vindi meta builds, or even power cata/holo when they were meta. What a suprise, youl would see 20x WB/reaper/spb/virt for every 1 vindi or DE in recent meta.. what a fking suprise. Read this paragraph again and use your comprehention. And again you show your lack of basic critical thinking. Some specs only work properly in organised play, which sPVP is not, heavy group fighter specs, and full support depend on team work the most, they are sub-optimal in sPVP. Meta builds also have counter builds, and in-fact, even a tier-B spec can hard counter a meta build, and evn an OP build, but the tier-B spec is not as great "overall". Meta builds are litterally meta becuase the excell at there role, but they still have counter specs (SPB maybe not). I can say this with certainty becuase I have played many off meta builds vs meta builds, and there are clear counters to certain things. For example re-applying stability to team mates on my particular build shuts down reapers in group fights, since CC is a big part of their attack/defence. So VS reapers in group fights, and even in 1v1, my build is more like meta vs meta. That is partly why the build is a good pick in sPVP, given the amount of reapers, and other reasons I won't bore you to get into. In an actual MAT game where people follow targets properly, and some specs have unblockables to time with that organised gank? My build would absolutely crumble. That isn't what sPVP is like, neither on or off peak, I played both a lot. The biggest deciding factor in sPVP is what team follows targets.. that team is more likely to win group fights, which then gives more numbers to +1 home/far. Spec choice in such unorganised solo que, with wide MMR only has a marginal effect. I can tell you once again I see p2 solo players off peak having 0 effect on games becuase there team are full of g1s not working together. But then again, their are so many brainded and effective specs now, some even meta.. that you can see what side is going to win just based on who has the most brainded monkey specs, meta or not. Edited September 8 by Flowki.7194 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 No. Spearbreaker is busted but it doesn't hold a candle to sig Cata at its prime. I suspect people not familiar with the mechanics of how ranked in played past 1600 rating still do not fully understand just how completely gamebreaking sig cata really was. Everyone past that rating has stow weapons and about/face camera style free/normal switching down to a T. Without those mechanics mastered, sig cata was busted. But with them mastered, sig cata was absolutely untouchable and completely invalidated most other classes/builds in the game because you could legit meme people while kiting away from them at the same time. Spearbreaker is busted because it does its job too well and needs to be 1v2'd to kill it, thus anyone can be a top-tier sidenoder as Spearbreaker right now. However, sig cata played properly was SSS+ God tier teamfighter, SSS+ God tier duelist, SSS+ God tier sidenoder, SSS+ God tier roamer, all in one build and required no support at all to do what it did. There is a very good reason that competitive teams ran 3-5 sig cata in ATs during that time. There was very little reason to run anything else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 i don't know if it's hilarious or alarming how many people can't detect the very obvious sarcasm and the also extremely obvious /s to make it even more apparent who needs literacy anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkyTea.9042 Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 On 9/8/2024 at 10:26 PM, Shagie.7612 said: i don't know if it's hilarious or alarming how many people can't detect the very obvious sarcasm and the also extremely obvious /s to make it even more apparent who needs literacy anyways Think of how dumb the average spvper is, and realize half of them are dumber than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercurialKuroSludge.8974 Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 8 minutes ago, MilkyTea.9042 said: Think of how dumb the average spvper is, and realize half of them are dumber than that. Ah yes, Carlin's old quote of culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frequency.6407 Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 This conversation was before a match; during the reign of signet cata. We had 2 cata, enemy team had 3. I was playing weaver. Friendly cata: Please switch to cata, they have 3 cata in team we will lose with 2 cata against 3. Me: I can't. Friendly cata: Why? Me: I don't have EoD. Friendly cata: And why don't you have EoD? Me: I refuse to give anet my money. Friendly cata: And why is that? Me: Because of cata. Friendly cata: ☠️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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