Why so safe?

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 hours ago, nuggetjr.6571 said:

In wvw, everyone has their own idea of "winning", and for a lot of people that is getting kills without dying.

^^^ Truth here. Each player's idea of was the death worth it impacts how players will react to a fight. This is why PPK changes need to be carefully monitored. If I can save 3 by attacking 20, I am all in. If I can slow 6 using 1, its a fair trade. If I think 5 can push 20 while slowing for more to arrive, its good. There are times to live and times to die to aid your side, its a matter of when. 

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

i am guessing you mean the pew pew wall heros or the allies you have equal enemy numbers but still run away ?

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

The question should be: "Why these people even go to WvW if all they do is hide behind walls?"
I wonder if that "DC" Diamond rank Soulbeast on EU still trebs from SM upper floors...

[Mimizu.7340]

20 hours ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

It honestly doesn't sound like you wvw as often as others. I'll put that out there.

I got one person who understands where I'm coming from on here. That's enough for me. And the whirlwind of excuses on this thread already shows that these safety players are indeed here.

1 person agrees with you out of dozens and you're using that to define a win?

Positive Bias 101.

Just take the L and move along.

[Sansar.1302]

Tower huggers etc is making the game mode way less fun.

[Gop.8713]

On 9/6/2024 at 7:07 PM, nuggetjr.6571 said:

In wvw, everyone has their own idea of "winning", and for a lot of people that is getting kills without dying.

That's a pretty good description of the pve mentality I was trying to describe actually, thx : )

Edited September 8 by Gop.8713

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 9/6/2024 at 7:41 PM, kash.9213 said:

People aren't fearing their virtual lives. They're avoiding dumbasses who take things too seriously then try to flex in game forums. 

Coming from a thief main this is actually funny.  But I think I agree, as WvW is notorious for 'kill montages' when there is no metric for skill.  It's just an easier version of sPvP to tryhard in, and feel validated--when really, it's just glorified PvE balance.  

To answer OP question though, people play it safe because of ego and/or they don't want to be salted, which is the #1 thing that happens if you die in WvW.  Unless you are getting run over by a zerg, you are going to get sieged, jumped on, bm'd, etc. etc. and who wants to deal with that?

Anyway, if I'm dying in WvW it's because I lost a duel or because I made a mistake and jumped into a zerg (straying too close).  Any other time its running above all else, because that's how God intended to roam in 2024.  

[Triptaminas.4789]

On 9/7/2024 at 1:10 AM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

. Even when they do engage the enemy, they'll try to stay in the path to the nearest objective, even when it's safer to use line of sight, running around the zerg, or literally anything else - they'll be tethered to the keep or tower, often at their own detriment.

Is there no one here that notices this or are you all these types of players?

There is lot of crowd psychology and overall whole machine are spun by psychologcal gear sheananigans, I could write book about it, be "Le Bon" of wvw. Yet I write too poorly and even if I would write well the forums would confuse emote me into submission, crowd here isn't for depth.

I do understand exactly what u meant, read thru it all, tho your attempt to talk about this in these forums are folly, u can have way better convo about it in games /t or in 4chin Korean basket weaving forums gw2g sub.

It's very counter intuitive but fear of death is what leads to their death, it's genuinely hilarious, same behavior is expressed to many related things, pararels to real war too. 

I initially wrote very big post (without reading the thread first) about the cloud and zerg behavior, inserting some wisdom snippets from praying mantis rp'ing vc commanders and so on and so on, then deleted it all because wvw or pvp forums ain't really for depth, communication here is possible on only really shallow concepts and topics.

U wasting time, so is other that try to actually build constructive convos here, no matter how hard u try to explain, it ends up in semantic shitshow or straight up misconstructs, I never seen forum with more expressed belief preservance bias, and I been in web for a long time now. 

[Mimizu.7340]

6 minutes ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

It's very counter intuitive but fear of death is what leads to their death

So, fear of life leads to immortality? 

Cool.

[Triptaminas.4789]

11 minutes ago, Mimizu.7340 said:

So, fear of life leads to immortality? 

Cool.

U see guys, this is exactly what I mean.

Thank you mimza for helping me make a point. 

 

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

7 hours ago, Triptaminas.4789 said:

There is lot of crowd psychology and overall whole machine are spun by psychologcal gear sheananigans, I could write book about it, be "Le Bon" of wvw. Yet I write too poorly and even if I would write well the forums would confuse emote me into submission, crowd here isn't for depth.

I do understand exactly what u meant, read thru it all, tho your attempt to talk about this in these forums are folly, u can have way better convo about it in games /t or in 4chin Korean basket weaving forums gw2g sub.

It's very counter intuitive but fear of death is what leads to their death, it's genuinely hilarious, same behavior is expressed to many related things, pararels to real war too. 

I initially wrote very big post (without reading the thread first) about the cloud and zerg behavior, inserting some wisdom snippets from praying mantis rp'ing vc commanders and so on and so on, then deleted it all because wvw or pvp forums ain't really for depth, communication here is possible on only really shallow concepts and topics.

U wasting time, so is other that try to actually build constructive convos here, no matter how hard u try to explain, it ends up in semantic shitshow or straight up misconstructs, I never seen forum with more expressed belief preservance bias, and I been in web for a long time now. 

Yea, I've come to notice after posting how sensitive people get when I say the word "safety," as if it was a holy word. Then they react as if I mean they should strip their armor off, run to the enemy side, and lay down with /sleep to offer up a free bag. The utter immaturity and overly dramatic response is honestly gross.

[Riba.3271]

People really need to try their best else when they are on their deathbed they will regret that one time they didn't try their best against strangers with strangers.

[Beddo.1907]

Last time I've checked, the objective is to kill others, not yourself.

[Zok.4956]

On 9/6/2024 at 10:05 PM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Let me write it first before I hear it for the sixth time: "If you die in the game, you die in real life!"

They don't die. They simply go to sleep and wake up at the next WP. 😇

On 9/7/2024 at 12:20 AM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

For example, there's an enemy zerg. We fight, some players hang back, not wanting to engage because it will put them at risk. That's a very odd thing to do in this kind of game mode. Is that clearer?

There are many reasons why they stay behind, even if you can only think of one. Not all of them have to have the same reasons. Fear of dying is probably only a reason for some, if any.  In hopeless fights, not giving the enemy any bags/points can also be a reason.  

[Zok.4956]

On 9/6/2024 at 10:05 PM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

I don't think there's another game where players protect their lives more than gw2 wvw.

Well, when I look at the many players who just stupidly run into an enemy group without any brains or sense and then die predictably and needlessly and only do kill feeding, then I dare to doubt it.

The goal of WvW is not to die as quickly and as often as possible, but to kill as many opposing players as possible and to capture or defend objects. And killing opposing players sometimes works better when you are still alive yourself. Of course, sometimes it can also make sense to sacrifice yourself, for example if you jump into a capture circle alone to delay the opponents a bit until your own reinforcements arrive.

[Zok.4956]

1 hour ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Then they react as if I mean they should strip their armor off, run to the enemy side, and lay down with /sleep to offer up a free bag.

The way you generalize it, that is exactly the impression that can arise from your statements.

1 hour ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

The utter immaturity and overly dramatic response is honestly gross.

Or you could think about whether people who disagree with you might not also be right in their views. 

[H K.4057]

On 9/6/2024 at 6:09 PM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

I've explained my position in other replies here. But again, I'll reiterate. This is literally about players who refuse to fight. And I'm not talking about fighting outnumbered, roaming, refusing to help someone who's getting ganged up on - literally people who won't fight because a risk of death.

It's so odd how people jump to the conclusion that I must be Leeroying out because I point out the people who are literally scared to die in a video game. Then people try to make up excuses why they're the smart ones for keeping safe in a video game. Imagine stopping at the first jump in mario because you're unsure you'd make it or not. It's baffling.

No one is obligated to fight you, and no one owes you a kill. If you want kills, earn them. This type of entitled thinking is no different than cele players getting mad that no one will fight them. If your build sacrifices mobility for survivability, then don't be annoyed that someone who sacrificed survivability for mobility simply walks away from you. Similarly, some people aren't built for roaming, and there is nothing is nothing wrong with them sticking to a zerg or sitting in a tower.

Finally, people who complain about gameplay should post their gameplay. Show us what you are complaining about.

Edited September 9 by H K.4057

[Firefly.5982]

There are so many reasons why people do whatever they do and it ultimately comes down to: people do whatever they enjoy and/or feel up to at the moment.

I am, going to say that you have absolutely no idea why somebody does what they do unless you ask them and they honestly tell you. You are assuming they don't want to fight because they don't want to die and you consider that bad somehow. I could probably come up with a dozen possible reasons off the top of my head for what's actually going on and none involve judging people for how they want to play a video game .-.

Edited September 9 by Firefly.5982

[uNiTyOfOpPoSiTe.5784]

It could be people just being 'scared' as you say. Some other possibilities.

1. Some states of the game give the enemy war score when you die.

2. If people yolo into bleeding out downstate against an obvious group that will kill them, the yolo has given them cover from the rally mechanic... making the downed enemies get second chances. Most of the time, third, fourth fifth, chances, etc. 🙂 People see downstate littering the battle field and weigh it that the enemy will rally before enemy kills could be completed. And so the battle is lost anyway.

3. Many people look at the enemy, as well as friendly group composition and map indicators, and then gauge the battle success chances from the balance of downs generated before engaging... They have basically seen similar scenarios many times before and people will push in if they feel confident, rallies are scarce and downs are starting to appear... Or if known friendlies push... It can even be something contextual, like we just wiped, meaning the other side will possibly have more confidence. People will possibly then walk away to give it all 5 minutes to calm down...

4. Others just walk away from what they perceive as impersonal, dull combat. So, blobs of mindless, predictable meta, stacking on a lord... with no chance to win and not fun... etc. Especially on something like HBL hills say, where the range of the enemy groups's skills basically cover the lord room once they are on the lord.

5. Time to run back? Better to wait for the right moment rather than spend any fight running across map... and not be there when it counts.

Apologies if I repeated others' points. 🙂

Edited September 12 by uNiTyOfOpPoSiTe.5784
Minor sentence corrections.

[Chaba.5410]

4 hours ago, H K.4057 said:

Show us what you are complaining about.

I agree.  Some sort of video would help a lot to understand what is being asked because there are so many different answers to the same question and they aren't all because of fear of dying.

Here's my own offering.  I don't think it offers the same kind of situation that the OP had in mind though.  And I'm not complaining about this behavior either, just laughing at it because it was so egregiously obvious at the time (read mapchat).  I thought the ranger came over to help take the camp, but it was defended by a single scrapper so he left?  I wasn't going to engage solo myself against the scrapper inside the camp since I'd be at a disadvantage with the addition of the NPCs.  But I have a hard time understanding what was going on in the ranger's mind here.
 

 

[Gop.8713]

5 hours ago, Firefly.5982 said:

There are so many reasons why people do whatever they do and it ultimately comes down to: people do whatever they enjoy and/or feel up to at the moment.

I am, going to say that you have absolutely no idea why somebody does what they do unless you ask them and they honestly tell you. You are assuming they don't want to fight because they don't want to die and you consider that bad somehow. I could probably come up with a dozen possible reasons off the top of my head for what's actually going on and none involve judging people for how they want to play a video game .-.

This is actually a really good point. I used to be the kind of player who never whispered the enemy, ever, under any circumstances, not even to reply to a whisper. And I used to get super irritated at a lot of players as a result. Eventually, once I got over the "never whisper" thing, I discovered a lot of the players that I was most irritated at were literally children, and knowing that made it a lot harder to get frustrated at them . . .

And that's where I am now, most of the time. It's annoying to see players who are "afraid to fight", but instead of getting irritated at them it's more just that I'm frustrated that they haven't worked through that pve phase to realize there's nothing at risk, so you may as well fight and have fun. Because I believe the game mode becomes a lot more fun once you come out on the other side of that pve mentality . . .

Spoiler

 

I'd agree that ranger is a great example of being "afraid to fight", in that case probs bc he's a "cap a camp every ten minutes and afk at spawn" player. Just guessing. Could just be new. From pve perhaps. And not yet aware that there's nothing at risk when you just jump in . . .

But if I was the scrapper I'd feel the same way about you, afraid to fight me in camp, waiting on your +1 before you're willing to engage, even right next to your own spawn /shrug . . .

[ArchonWing.9480]

16 minutes ago, Gop.8713 said:

But if I was the scrapper I'd feel the same way about you, afraid to fight me in camp, waiting on your +1 before you're willing to engage, even right next to your own spawn /shrug . . .

But then if I were Chaba, I'd be wondering why the Scrapper refuses to fight me without guards. Also why is that aim so bad.

It never ends, really. Everyone has their own spin on it.

[Evenge.4067]

Maybe I missed it, but did the OP mention what class they play? I mean many classes have abilities that can be considered cowardly.  Stealths, auras, blinks, dashes, reduced or no damage skills.

Another thing is many people are new to WvW and don't know when to push or know their skills/build well enough yet to survive.  No point in giving the opposition satisfaction of a kill if you know that you will die.

[Gop.8713]

10 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

But then if I were Chaba, I'd be wondering why the Scrapper refuses to fight me without guards. Also why is that aim so bad.

It never ends, really. Everyone has their own spin on it.

If I'm the ranger I run past @Chaba.5410 to engage lol. If I'm @Chaba.5410 I yolo and fight in camp. If I'm the scrapper I engage as soon as he hits the first yak. If I'm the dh I battle maul for my +10 and to get that repeatable cheeve off my nearly completed ; p

The point is, no matter what I'm doing, I'm looking for a fun fight, not a win . . .

[Vyseman.2947]

They are super scared to die in a freakin Game..

Had that multiple times, fighting a 1v2 against peoples with max Toughness and then instantly running in their Tower to generate Health, come back and start tryharding.. and guess what happened few sec later?? RIGHT.. KEEP FKING RUNNING AWAY AGAIN WHILE OUTNUMBERING ME..

 

for real... Fight or dont play PvP/WvW.