Should we Nerf: [Relic of Rivers] Which might affect other classes, or Fix the Bug where [Versatile Power] applies TWICE to [Full Counter]!? ... - ANet: No. Let's just Dumpster the rest of Warrior.

[TiedHam.4923]

>> So again, 0 explanation which feels GREAT. <<

And honestly I agree with most of the Spear changes, especially the 4 having to 'hit' something to trigger the rain. The 5 should still be unblockable, especially if it's going to have a longer cd. And it should have EITHER a longer cd OR have the reduction shortened (depending on how you want the risk/reward to play.)

But come on guys, really?? Instead of fixing Spellbreaker (which is clearly the problem) -- The other 3 see basically 0 play, otherwise yes, this would be a WARRIOR problem, but since you don't it's clearly a SPELLBREAKER problem, you go and gut Staff and Defiant Stance?

Did you like emergency do-this, or fire whoever made spear usable or what?

 

Also: They left the Damage on [Solar Storm] alone (Guardian's Spear 4.) Which can 1-shot you on a Warrior THROUGH a Demo Amulet. Hilarious joke patch notes.

[WingSwipe.3084]

7 minutes ago, TiedHam.4923 said:

Did you like emergency do-this, or fire whoever made spear usable or what?

Also: They left the Damage on [Solar Storm] alone (Guardian's Spear 4.) Which can 1-shot you on a Warrior THROUGH a Demo Amulet. Hilarious joke patch notes.

PvP forum complained about staff, even if SPB was the issue. Thats fine, we go hammer and make life even more boring for people.

No guardian nerfs or mesmer nerfs for staff really grinds my gears, especially considering the fact that it did equally if not more damage then warrior spear. But thats how it goes, blue class favoritism, as per usual.

[Lucentfir.7430]

I'm of the unpopular opinion that the current changes for both weapons were reasonable, and healthier. SPB isn't the problem. It's the combo of both staff and launch spear, because even before spear, you had Staff/Dagger/Sword annoying people, which is why impale got nerfed well before spear's launch. Staff was always supposed to be a support weapon, lowering the base healing values means if you want more than just the mobility and boons then you'd need healing power for that investment, something a support warrior should be wanting to invest into. 

For spear it wasn't underperforming on Berserker and Bladesworn because the Primal burst on Berserker is pretty horrid and well berserker is still condi at heart, and power secondary in its design . Bladesworn has no burst skill, and already has a weapon baked into the class that's psuedo ranged already so it's already not a good pairing. The Core Warrior Spear build was basically Gunflame/Killshot 2.0 where most of your damage isn't gatekept behind needing Signet of Might to land anything through a group. 

[cryorion.9532]

1 hour ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

I'm of the unpopular opinion that the current changes for both weapons were reasonable, and healthier. SPB isn't the problem. It's the combo of both staff and launch spear, because even before spear, you had Staff/Dagger/Sword annoying people, which is why impale got nerfed well before spear's launch. Staff was always supposed to be a support weapon, lowering the base healing values means if you want more than just the mobility and boons then you'd need healing power for that investment, something a support warrior should be wanting to invest into. 

For spear it wasn't underperforming on Berserker and Bladesworn because the Primal burst on Berserker is pretty horrid and well berserker is still condi at heart, and power secondary in its design . Bladesworn has no burst skill, and already has a weapon baked into the class that's psuedo ranged already so it's already not a good pairing. The Core Warrior Spear build was basically Gunflame/Killshot 2.0 where most of your damage isn't gatekept behind needing Signet of Might to land anything through a group. 

SPB isn't the problem? So they can swap spear to dagger/sword again which was already pretty strong because how strong defense spb itself is? Where are all the warriors, berserkers and bladesworns with spear? WvW had plenty of core warriors/spellbreakers and to some extent, berserkers. Berserker was pretty much gutted with the Spearmarshal nerf. I think rifle Berserker is now probably better/faster for bursting targets after the spear nerf.

10th Sept warrior nerfs were aimed at specific parts (weapon skills) that affect every build, not just overpowered ones. Worst thing is that they didn't just tone down the spear, they annihilated it from orbit with gigantic laser becasue of all the things they have nerfed including the Spearmarshal having to hit with first hit to activate the skill and spear 5 losing unblockable. Did you know that Spearmarshal can now be obstructed and out-of-range-d? On top of doing more than 1/3 less damage. So not only it is much harder to land this skill in blind/block/evade spam but it also deals significantly less damage. The damage nerf could have been smaller (like 20% instead of 37,5%) but overall, the skill lost insane amount of its potency. You might think that is fair, ok, but that wasn't the only nerf spear received. Spear 5 losing unblockable is just... now it can be easily reflected/absorbed because the skill is actually a projectile. In WvW, this is actually an issue with all those annoying and overpowered builds that for some reason Anet doesn't bother to address (this also includes blind/block/evade spam for Spearmarshal's first hit)... So now, you can get easily cced right away with your own amazing swipe because of random reflect aura or whatever. But hey, at least it reflects projectiles for 0.0001 seconds so you might reflect 1 autoattack with it. 🤡

I think the worst changes are actually the Spearmarshal's first hit (that can be easily evaded/obstructed/out-of-range-d/invulnerability-ed) and Spear Swipe losing unblockable. This made spear so kittening much worse... geeez. This is so sad... I think I am going to cry in bed now.

Edited September 10 by cryorion.9532

[Lucentfir.7430]

52 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

SPB isn't the problem? So they can swap spear to dagger/sword again which was already pretty strong because how strong defense spb itself is? Where are all the warriors, berserkers and bladesworns with spear? WvW had plenty of core warriors/spellbreakers and to some extent, berserkers. Berserker was pretty much gutted with the Spearmarshal nerf. I think rifle Berserker is now probably better/faster for bursting targets after the spear nerf.

10th Sept warrior nerfs were aimed at specific parts (weapon skills) that affect every build, not just overpowered ones. Worst thing is that they didn't just tone down the spear, they annihilated it from orbit with gigantic laser becasue of all the things they have nerfed including the Spearmarshal having to hit with first hit to activate the skill and spear 5 losing unblockable. Did you know that Spearmarshal can now be obstructed and out-of-range-d? On top of doing more than 1/3 less damage. So not only it is much harder to land this skill in blind/block/evade spam but it also deals significantly less damage. The damage nerf could have been smaller (like 20% instead of 37,5%) but overall, the skill lost insane amount of its potency. You might think that is fair, ok, but that wasn't the only nerf spear received. Spear 5 losing unblockable is just... now it can be easily reflected/absorbed because the skill is actually a projectile. In WvW, this is actually an issue with all those annoying and overpowered builds that for some reason Anet doesn't bother to address (this also includes blind/block/evade spam for Spearmarshal's first hit)... So now, you can get easily cced right away with your own amazing swipe because of random reflect aura or whatever. But hey, at least it reflects projectiles for 0.0001 seconds so you might reflect 1 autoattack with it. 🤡

I think the worst changes are actually the Spearmarshal's first hit (that can be easily evaded/obstructed/out-of-range-d/invulnerability-ed) and Spaer Swipe losing unblockable. This made spear so kittening much worse... geeez. This is so sad... I think I am going to cry in bed now.

At least with dagger sword it is still straight melee and has so clunkiness to trying to impale->rip, SPB Wasn't a problem when the era of Condi berserker and Bladesworn with stun was the meta often getting beaten out by those 2 in match ups,. It started to become a problem when staff got introduced because Warrior got a bunch of things with staff it didn't used to have pretty easily, like prot, reso, aegis,regen, healing given pretty generously.   I main warrior too you know, The fact that we wanted a support weapon with staff and we got it is great, but we can't also just gloss over the fact that it was decent healing without healing power investment as a support weapon so it contributes to that side of warrior doing fat bunking, it's left shield in the dust as a result.

Bladesworn doesn't work well with spears just by the design between the two, noting about it really synergizes well and it's burst skill is replaced with Dragonslash so it doesn't have Harrier's Toss. Berserker if your aim is to oneshot/ big damage, then yeah rifle is going to be better, because Gunflame still actually hurts and you have volley to fall back on. Berserker Spear doesn't have that with the the primal burst, and most of the damage was leaning on spearmarshal to carry it, reading into that,if that's the case means it was doing too much damage if you're getting the same results or better than gunflame, this is in WvW too where everyone is rolling in perma prot boons and cele/toughness gear half the time. 

Spear 5 getting unblockable always felt like out of place tbh, it gives you a low-mid range unblockable hard CC launch, with an evade, reflect, and CD reduction. It's true that since it's a projectile, losing the unblockable it'll fly back in your face with reflects and CC yourself but I think it has no business being a projectile, should just be a small cone AoE in front of you. Spearmarshal's Support change just brings it inline to the likes of Guardian Focus 4 which is subjected to all the same things, and it's still better because it hits faster and can hit multiple targets still since it's functionally an AoE, seen plenty of times people running over their allies and getting crossfire damaged by it. 

Edit: They should also shave a second off Alac on River relic too, having alac on regen on dodge is pretty wild as a relic effect for all classes. 

Edited September 10 by Lucentfir.7430

[Shagie.7612]

7 minutes ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Spear 5 getting unblockable always felt like out of place tbh, it gives you a low-mid range unblockable hard CC launch, with an evade, reflect, and CD reduction. It's true that since it's a projectile, losing the unblockable it'll fly back in your face with reflects and CC yourself but I think it has no business being a projectile, should just be a small cone AoE in front of you.

I don't know why they didn't do this tbh

They clearly made the change after the beta where the button would CC you just as often as the other person, because of how abundant projectile hate is now.
That was a good thing. The evade shouldn't be able to be ruined like that.

But they could have just made it like Scorchrazor (Rev shortbow 5) or something? It's not a projectile, but also not unblockable.

[Lucentfir.7430]

10 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

I don't know why they didn't do this tbh

They clearly made the change after the beta where the button would CC you just as often as the other person, because of how abundant projectile hate is now.
That was a good thing. The evade shouldn't be able to be ruined like that.

But they could have just made it like Scorchrazor (Rev shortbow 5) or something? It's not a projectile, but also not unblockable.

I think it might be just a matter of time constraints before the expansion, the initial spear in beta was poorly received because it was in fact pretty horrid, so the timely fix there was to make it giga strong and tweak it after while keeping it the way it is. Scorchrazor would be a good stand in for how Spear Swipe functions honestly. I think the only thing that might be sorta unknown is the movement portion of the skill, it feel very Dragon's Roar(Pistol 5). 

Edited September 10 by Lucentfir.7430

[Bris.7984]

This is all i can say.... Thanks to lowbrain balance no test warrior class nerfs today.