PUSH is feeling gooood

[Saiyan.1704]

It's eons better than Courtyard's Team Deathmatch, back when that released as a beta test.

The first hour already feels 100x better than the entirety beta test of Stronghold.

Bad players who instantly get melted, will hate it because... they just need to be better at playing the game in general. These are the same players who already have issues in Conquest, struggling to past Gold1 IF they can even reach gold. There are obviously improvements that the map needs, one of which should be an extra BUFF once the other team passes a certain threshold on the map, IMO.

IDEAS
There should be a buff called Second Chance that only the losing team can get once the Cloud passes 75% of the lane. Perhaps damage occurs in the node, and/or everyone in the node gets 50% reduced toughness for 1 minute. Something that cripples everyone in the node so that steamrolls happen less often (in theory). Sometimes when the other team has momentum, it's difficult to make a comeback.

Make the floor darker, or the circle ring a black color? I can't see the node at all and other SFX is also harder to see because of how light the map is (also the cleaves going around in every direction).

Aside from that, I really like the core function of PUSH.\

[Cutting Razor.5983]

I'm one of the bad players who struggle to get past Gold 1 and find the mode extremely dull and boring. Not that I'm doing bad with 12 wins and 4 losses nor am I getting melted instantly. It just feels like there's very little decision making and the potential for build variety in current version feels stifled. Anyone enjoying the existing conquest duelist/roamer playstyle have no real place in this mode unless the duelist player enjoys bunkering. Matches tend to be much more onesided since, if your team has worse teamfight there's no real option of trying to come up with alternative strategy. The secondary objectives aren't impactful enough to to encourage contesting them aside (maybe) the tranquility buff that prevents enemy team contribution. 

I also see some problems with node based debuffs the way you suggest implementing them. If the game is already a steamroll the optimal play with your proposed debuff for the winning team would be to just scatter from the node, spawn camp for a minute and finish the game. Sure it'd take some time for people to catch up with this strategy but it's a bandage "fix" at best.

The circle visibility I can agree on.

Some decent ideas I've seen:
introducing catapult to the map (I see several problems with this though)
destroyable gates/obstacles at key locations (games would get longer which might not be what dev team wants for this mode)
push could even be the right place to attempt reintroducing mist heroes.

I'll admit I might be biased being mainly mirage player and not owning Janthir Wilds, since I can't think of a valid playstyle for Mirage here except for aoe nuking with spear. I've just defaulted to chrono which feels almost like cheating with how crippling it seems to be to play against.

[Mne Malo Tebya.2965]

3 minutes ago, Cutting Razor.5983 said:

It just feels like there's very little decision making and the potential for build variety in current version feels stifled

I mean thats the whole point of the mode. A single objective that people can monkey around. Personally for me thats hot garbage because I have 3 working braincells to understand how conquest works which is also way more fun to play. The mode is meant for newbies to get into pvp easier. For veteran players its just a clown fiesta that isnt really much fun.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

There should be a buff called Second Chance that only the losing team can get once the Cloud passes 75% of the lane

Yeah I was already thinking, that cloud should troll you somehow. It's way too funny not to do. It should attack players or something.

21 minutes ago, Cutting Razor.5983 said:

I'm one of the bad players who struggle to get past Gold 1 and find the mode extremely dull and boring

Nah man. This mode is surprisingly not dull & boring. After first 15 games, I was surprised at how much dynamic it actually has. It really isn't so 1-dimensional. A game mode where dying does not reward points, with a moving node, presents A LOT of different types of play styles to optimize around, that is just different than normal conquest or death matches. But it's way too early for me to giving detailed feedback. So far though, I've got nothing but positive things to say about this mode. Literally everything about this mode feels like a straight upgrade from conquest. I was not expecting this to happen but the more I play it, it just feels better to play man.

[maxwelgm.4315]

I wholeheartedly agree, mode is the most fun I had in a while in sPvP and I already have a lot of fun in sPvP. Some other ideas as I fully also agree that steamrolling is too easy yet (some ideas borrowed from posts in other topics by other people):

- Have the match happens in stages. It can be something that interrupts the match and restarts it in a new condition once a team passes a threshold. Maybe allow for swapping builds during that interval (similar to the 3v3's). Right now the mode is strongly dependent on team composition, to a fault perhaps because you know in the first min or so who is probably going to win.

- For the same reason as above but a different approach, maybe this mode actually works best as 8v8 or 10v10 in its current iteration (that strongly favors team composition). Larger numbers on a single point will make it even more chaotic but might alleviate when players are strongly countered by the enemy team's composition, since with sheer numbers a team can potentially win an unfavorable matchup by playing smart and focusing the right target.

- The map needs a lot more structures, right now it's sniper town. In fact it could even be as radical as having a "jungle" in the MOBA sense, and that would make duelists/roamers viable if secondary objectives become more meaningful. The lanes could also have their own structures, for instance doors that have to be destroyed before the cart could be pushed into the "arenas" in the side lanes

- Related to above, the secondary objectives need to be far stronger to justify fighting over them (even potentially allowing a strong push from the enemy team). Maybe the mid buff is already good but the sword is not worth if your team is already getting snowballed. These buffs should justify you leaving your primary objective in both a winning/losing situation so you can consolidate a win or turn around a loss, just like it actually works with tranquility/stillness/bell.

- Again on the first point because this is important, teamcomps dictate too much of the match at the moment, this is not meant to be a deathmatch contrary to what the queue button would say. Having ways to really reduce the incentive of bunkering up on the point is going to be important for the long term. I've seen people suggest things like adding damage over time to players who stand too long on the point, reducing defenses, healing, etc. and that all could work, but perhaps there is also a way to have a positive incentive to leave it rather than a negative one, such as getting a move speed buff or even slight defenses if you're outside of it. Same overall result, but positive reinforcement to go back and forth from within the point, and even to organize with other players in order to take turns holding the point.

- Finally, one pain point I had with the beta itself, I think Anet put things together too haphazardly even considering it's not on release yet. It doesn't show their commitment to sPvP that after 12 years we get a (potentially awesome) game mode but reusing assets that don't even go together or even introducing fully greyed out textures for walls and mounds around the arena. I mean, we even have actual carts/Charr vehicles every freaking where in PvE and yet they have this creepy cloud hovering above us to symbolize the thing to be pushed! If they don't want the point/objective itself to be a source of obstruction (which could be interesting by the way), just make it one of the many flying vehicle assets we also have. And make some assets for us starving PvPers lmao, it's been a decade Anet.

[Asuran.5469]

do allow build swap in spawn

[Frequency.6407]

best mode

[Cutting Razor.5983]

31 minutes ago, Asuran.5469 said:

do allow build swap in spawn

My problem with build swapping is that it gives a small advantage to people with more build templates on their account. Unless there's a clear period for changing builds (ie. 2v2 and 3v3 between rounds) I find it a bad idea. I'd be ok with swapping utility skills or something.

[Greebo.8715]

The new game mode is trash; your allies are rally bots and respawn and run straight into the enemy team to 1v5 them. At least with Conquest you can side node and play the 2nd objective to try and win, now if your allies are literal vegetables you have to hard carry and kill the entire enemy time by yourself which makes 90% of builds worthless.

[Frequency.6407]

I like roamers and side-noders got sidelined in this mode. That was meta in conquest.

Push is a new mode and offers variety because focus is on teamfights, not sidenodes.

We might actually see revival of some team dps specs like SB and weaver.

[Ashen.4061]

Love the new mode, but it obviously needs some refinements.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

12 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Bad players who instantly get melted, will hate it because... they just need to be better at playing the game in general. 

There's the core of OP's the argument for a tldr;.  

Problem is that the mode is supposed to be meant for new players to get used to PvP, not seasoned players melting people on WB because that's the easiest path to a high rank / wins.  That's not my quote BTW, it is OPs...I just am too lazy to find it right now.

As Devil's Advocate, I dislike the mode because it's too easy to melt new players and move on.  If I wanted that I'll just go to WvW and spawn camp people.  

[Saiyan.1704]

10 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

If I wanted that I'll just go to WvW and spawn camp people.  

It's worse in WvW, there's bad players everywhere lol. They can't make a gamemode that incorporates training wheels, but also being competitive. Unless it's some weird "gym" gamemode where your support/rotation/damage is being compared to the person in the next stall over.... a gamemode like that is not what this game needs.

You can dumb down the gamemode only so much.

Edited September 11 by Saiyan.1704

[Flowki.7194]

19 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

There's the core of OP's the argument for a tldr;.  

Problem is that the mode is supposed to be meant for new players to get used to PvP, not seasoned players melting people on WB because that's the easiest path to a high rank / wins.  That's not my quote BTW, it is OPs...I just am too lazy to find it right now.

As Devil's Advocate, I dislike the mode because it's too easy to melt new players and move on.  If I wanted that I'll just go to WvW and spawn camp people.  

This is completely true, and the only real complaint I have on the mode. The MMR is too wide, a lot of newer/less experianced players are being baited, kill chasing, and falling victim to easy +1 ganks from more experianced players. Sure its a learning point for the new players.. but at the cost of the game for their more experianced team mates. I can already see the "meta" quickly shifting to default sPVP,  the more experianced players on roam specs to gank the less experianced players, and far more easily than in sPVP.

 

Roaming so to speak, should ofc be possible in push, but not with those kind of skill gaps. This mode is suppose to be about giving newer players an easier learning curve, so objectively it will and currently is failing in doing that, unless you deal with the skill gaps. Adress the MMR.

Edited September 11 by Flowki.7194

[Yerlock.4678]

13 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

It's eons better than Courtyard's Team Deathmatch, back when that released as a beta test.

The first hour already feels 100x better than the entirety beta test of Stronghold.

Bad players who instantly get melted, will hate it because... they just need to be better at playing the game in general. These are the same players who already have issues in Conquest, struggling to past Gold1 IF they can even reach gold. There are obviously improvements that the map needs, one of which should be an extra BUFF once the other team passes a certain threshold on the map, IMO.

IDEAS
There should be a buff called Second Chance that only the losing team can get once the Cloud passes 75% of the lane. Perhaps damage occurs in the node, and/or everyone in the node gets 50% reduced toughness for 1 minute. Something that cripples everyone in the node so that steamrolls happen less often (in theory). Sometimes when the other team has momentum, it's difficult to make a comeback.

Make the floor darker, or the circle ring a black color? I can't see the node at all and other SFX is also harder to see because of how light the map is (also the cleaves going around in every direction).

Aside from that, I really like the core function of PUSH.\

I can’t enjoy it without duelists being a thing. Team fights are fun but not having the duels is just a hard pass for me.

Edited September 11 by Yerlock.4678

[Flowki.7194]

21 minutes ago, Yerlock.4678 said:

I can’t enjoy it without duelists being a thing. Team fights are fun but not having the duels is just a hard pass for me.

Im glad 1/3 of the game is no longer decided by who picked the thickest brick wall.

 

On the other hand, push seems to be decided by a good WB. Low risk jump, plenty mobility, wide MMr, its like a mini WvW game for them.

[arazoth.7290]

10 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Im glad 1/3 of the game is no longer decided by who picked the thickest brick wall.

 

On the other hand, push seems to be decided by a good WB. Low risk jump, plenty mobility, wide MMr, its like a mini WvW game for them.

Idk, if I see Willy on enemy team it's mostly a free kill for my team and me.

Also the buffs in this mode need buffed, more relevance (irony)

Also I really think a treb that's permanent there close to each base and can be repaired would work a lot better for this mode then kylo. Bunkery teams with double support would have to choose then to take that damage or forcing them some time out of  node, more counter play. Would make roamers more available to have some role too and watching out for that. 

By this there would be more comebacks on currently from times too 1 side fights, which I am contributing too with mine currently. So just speaking from experience from my matches what happens

[Frequency.6407]

Have some kind of healing debuff on cloud, to deter bunkering. Risk/reward.

[Sieghart.8745]

shouldve made it a seperate gamemode from ranked and kept 2v2 or 3v3 for the real ranked cause this is so bad mechanically you either cant kill nothing or just get 1 shot by everything. like where is the debuff? i been bunker and staying on node no issue with no debuff. you guys got alot of work to fix its going to end up like stronghold if you dont. i am only playing this for titles then im not touching this mode again with a 10ft pole.

[Porky.8256]

I assume this game mode is Anet's take on League's ARAM game mode. So technically, this could be a huge win for overall attrition rates and toxicity in the community. I strongly advise ANET to clone ARAM as closely as possible, as the majority of successful MOBA type and PVP adjacent games have.

Trying to re-invent the wheel here sounds like a waste of time when a multi billion dollar company has spent 15 years dedicating 100% of their revenue to two game modes.

[Myror.7521]

@Yerlock.4678 duelist is kind of a thing or at least tanking is.

The up to comb would be like

1 healer/2point Tanker/ 2 dps

Right now it might end up beeing

1 supp Chrono/ 2 Defiant spellbreaker with spear to push enemys away/ 2 Dagger mes to make hard dps on point

[GuriGashi.5617]

Have to agree, if it gets released with 2-3 good maps, I could see myself enjoying it 

[Flowki.7194]

8 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Idk, if I see Willy on enemy team it's mostly a free kill for my team and me.

Come off it Zor, 60% of any game is <g3 players. If the WB is a "free kill", your team got the bigger share of the actual better players, and the willbender was not good.

Edited September 12 by Flowki.7194

[arazoth.7290]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Come off it Zor, 60% of any game is <g3 players. If the WB is a "free kill", your team got the bigger share of the actual better players, and the willbender was not good.

Well I target/focus them, most of the times they follow targets. But you have always teams who ignore any calls even after telling it them to focus big red dot, press T.

Anyway this mode is new, many need to learn this new thing, some get used to it faster.

Just telling from my experience in games what I noticed*

[timetopat.7921]

Im having fun with it.   I understand people who wanted 2v2 or 3v3 and instead got this being disappointed.  I like that even in losing matches ive been in enemies have still died and there is a chance at some heroic last stand to prevent the capture. Most matches ive been in actually had the timer go to 0.