Scourge carry doesn't matter.

[Shade.8037]

The fact that 'scourge just carries people who don't want to do mechanics' is a terrible argument in favor of the transfusion nerf. Untamed can invuln a mechanic then rez nine people in less than five seconds, there are many over 50K dps classes, herald can provide basically every boon in the game perpetually. The game is FULL of OP things, that hard carry people not wanting to 'git gud' so using that as an excuse to gut the identity of necromancer is, silly at best.

Beyond that, what does this benefit? Do people really think the guy that is struggling to react to things is gonna get...BETTER, when they just die to first time the mechanic comes up and never practice because while they were dead the three guys pulling 50K dps on boneskinner just finished it? OR do you think MAYBE getting downed three or four times and having a scourge pull them out might actually HELP lower skilled player get used to a fight by seeing the effects of missing a reaction, without being just, out of the fight totally first mess up?

Like 80% of the people happy about this nerf are just gleefully eager for 'the scrubs' to start dying more, this whole thing feels like a gatekeep to punish players who are not 'good enough' in the eyes of some players, and keep the niche raiding community just that, niche.

Do what you want in PvP and WvW but end of the day, this change will just make necro's worthless to bring. No stab, no regen, barely any heals (Two skills, in total) bad cc and no actual healing weapon. All for what? So that the people who struggle with the games pve group content get to suffer more? To make a larger divide between the casual players and the hard core raiders?

I just don't see how this helps anything, it just hurts players new to fights, strips necro of its the ONE necromantic element it actually uses in a main build, and in the end people will still get carried, they'll just do it alt tabbed on the floor learning absolutely NOTHING.

Edited September 14 by Shade.8037

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Healscourge has 4 methods that individually upkeep perma regen (Serpent Siphon, Mark of Evasion, Mark of Blood, Well of Blood), let alone when combined together, so it's not like we're bad on that front, but the rest is all accurate.

[Shade.8037]

13 minutes ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Healscourge has 4 methods that individually upkeep perma regen (Serpent Siphon, Mark of Evasion, Mark of Blood, Well of Blood), let alone when combined together, so it's not like we're bad on that front, but the rest is all accurate.

Fair enough I suppose, though I will add a few things. Plenty of builds drop staff altogether for more CC/might/fury. Using Serpent Siphon for regen means it is now down to aegis bigger hits, and Well of Blood is really best to be used for a group rez/cc. 

I concede it isn't that we have nothing, but only really Mark of Evasion is usable on CD without eating into your emergency buttons. We CAN technically keep perma regen easyish though I grant you.

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

I'll add 1 more thing, and that's Heal Scourge doesn't give 100% Protection. This is pretty bad for a healer build. So between Protection and Regen, it already doesn't do a very good job at the minimal baseline required for a healer.

Let's also not talk about the poor access to Aegis and Stab, which many of us consider to be a good trade-off for having the best rez pull. But now the rez pull is out of the window, and if the change goes through, why do we even have this trade-off?

[Shade.8037]

7 minutes ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

I'll add 1 more thing, and that's Heal Scourge doesn't give 100% Protection. This is pretty bad for a healer build. So between Protection and Regen, it already doesn't do a very good job at the minimal baseline required for a healer.

Let's also not talk about the poor access to Aegis and Stab, which many of us consider to be a good trade-off for having the best rez pull. But now the rez pull is out of the window, and if the change goes through, why do we even have this trade-off?

Exactly! Scourge is arguably the worst healer by far after this .And subjectively i'll play tempest over a Necro healer that has no ability to scrape people off the floor. What is even the point if the thematic isn't there? We have worse healing and boon give than everything else.

[Szatko.8132]

The problem is, you're seeing only black and white and no shades in-between. Knowing basic mechanics of an encounter =/= being a hard-core raider. Especially since normal mode raids and strikes are extremely easy and simple to do and if somebody keeps on dying on these, I'm sorry, but it's just pure laziness. I've seen people absolutely refusing to even watch a short video or read about mechanics 😅 If anet developers create something with a purpose of being a challenge, I guess they want to keep it challenging.

Also, heal scourge's cc is definitely not terrible xd

[Szatko.8132]

1 hour ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

I'll add 1 more thing, and that's Heal Scourge doesn't give 100% Protection. This is pretty bad for a healer build. So between Protection and Regen, it already doesn't do a very good job at the minimal baseline required for a healer.

Let's also not talk about the poor access to Aegis and Stab, which many of us consider to be a good trade-off for having the best rez pull. But now the rez pull is out of the window, and if the change goes through, why do we even have this trade-off?

They could make Eternal Life give aoe prot instead of self protection 😝 

[Shade.8037]

Just now, Szatko.8132 said:

The problem is, you're seeing only black and white and no shades in-between. Knowing basic mechanics of an encounter =/= being a hard-core raider. Especially since normal mode raids and strikes are extremely easy and simple to do and if somebody keeps on dying on these, I'm sorry, but it's just pure laziness. I've seen people absolutely refusing to even watch a short video or read about mechanics 😅 If anet developers create something with a purpose of being a challenge, I guess they want to keep it challenging.

Also, heal scourge's cc is definitely not terrible xd

You kind of prove my point though, normal mode raids and strikes are very easy, you think someone is going to learn the mechanic by dying the first time it shows up then laying there until the boss dies only to repeat next week? No, they will just get carried over and over again.

Know what helps new people learn? Getting picked up and thrown back in. People, do not like going down, they don't like having to be rezzed constantly, and WILL try to get better to avoid it. And guess what? Having multiple chances to do so in one fight is WAY better at learning than once per pull, or once per week when the 50K dps players carry you to a win on the floor.

Either way, end of the day, if someone isn't trying and you don't like that, kick em out of the group, don't gut the entire identity of a heal class just to punish some phantom dps for standing in fire, who will still do so afterwards. This change is stupid.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

1 hour ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

I'll add 1 more thing, and that's Heal Scourge doesn't give 100% Protection. This is pretty bad for a healer build. So between Protection and Regen, it already doesn't do a very good job at the minimal baseline required for a healer.

Let's also not talk about the poor access to Aegis and Stab, which many of us consider to be a good trade-off for having the best rez pull. But now the rez pull is out of the window, and if the change goes through, why do we even have this trade-off?

You're not factoring Alacrity.  Healscourge doesn't have much leeway on the matter, but it does manage 100% protection uptime on the subsquad/party with about 1 second of leeway.

[Shuzuru.3651]

1 hour ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

I'll add 1 more thing, and that's Heal Scourge doesn't give 100% Protection. This is pretty bad for a healer build. So between Protection and Regen, it already doesn't do a very good job at the minimal baseline required for a healer.

That's false, protection uptime is like 110% on each use, enough to build a buffer

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

Do I agree that the Vaccum should be removed? Not really, Im ok with not having it, but I understand that it IS a big part of HealScourge identity, and complete removal is also meaningless in itself.
That being said...nerfing it IS a good thing, to encourage more active use instead of "holding it for Vaccum pulls".
And now, lets address some of the dubious statements.

Untamed needs to take a specific heal skill + an Elite to Rez, while Transfusion is alrdy the best trait HealScourge can take out of the 3, due to it making F4 pulse healing, so there isnt an opportunity cost for HealScourge to take Vaccum trait anyway.
There are many classes that can BURST over 50k at the beginning of a fight, then hit like wet noodles, and even the most recent outlier was a Condi build, which takes time to ramp up, and has alrdy been nerfed to below 50k over a long fight.
Scourge, on the other hand, enjoys nearly full dmg at 900 range distance, compared to most other builds, its only real competitor is CVirt which is very broken and needs nerfs, becuz its the only other "press buttons from range and do 90+% dmg anyway" build.
Herald cannot provide Vigor or Resolution, the former of which actually do matter to many DD/Vindi builds becuz they heavily utilize dodge as part of their dmg, and the latter to a lesser extent on Radiant Guardian builds, or the rare condi heavy situations that you couldn't cleanse (Sloth coconut shakes that were not dodged).
Boneskinner is as simple as "walk/dodge left" to avoid downing, walking may result in you taking 1 tick of dmg, but it wont kill, this is not rocket science nor is it hard.
And in fact ppl CAN learn by watching their teammates or youtube videos, not just blind progging.

Scourge doesn't "heal" in the traditional way, ergo not purely through Green Numbers feedback...but it HEALS, A LOT, even if it may not seem like it.
For Green Heals.
Well of Blood.
Transfusion giving out 1200+ heals per second upon pressing F4, for 4.5 seconds, every 10.2 seconds becuz of Alacrity and Sinister Shroud trait, thats 5400+ heal every 10 seconds.
Life from Death gives 2300+ heal every time you finish pulsing F5 Shroud.
For Yellow Heals (Barrier).
Desert Empowerment + Herald of Sorrow interaction gives Barrier on every F1/F3/F5 press, and ofc Serpent Siphon utility skill.
F5 in particular pulses Protection to the party due to the trait interaction.
That is a lot of passive, permanent barrier, F1 alone gives 1.5k+ Barrier when you cast it on an Ally, not to mention the F3 spam, and ofc with F5 you can spike the Barrier over 10k no issue.
Also, Scourge actually has decent CC.
Flesh Golem doing at least 832 every button press, Spectral Grasp if you cast it from inside a boss hitbox, can do up to 750, F4 Fear is another 100, Torch 5 does 200, Warhorn 4 does 200.
 "Soft" CC like Dagger 3 Immob for 6 seconds totaling out to 300, Spectral Grasp itself doing Chill in addition to flat breakbar dmg, 4 seconds of 33 per tick, totaling out to 132, Flesh Golem auto atks doing Cripple before you make it charge, and ofc all the other tools like the rare Staff Fear/Chill, Signet of Spite, CPC, and many more.

The real weakness, as correctly stated, is a particular lack of access to Stab/Aegis/Swift/Fury.
Fury however is easily covered by many builds in the game OOZING Fury to the sub, like "Master Fencer" trait from Mesmers, Herald Facet, Guardian Axe/Sword/Spear/Elite, QZerkers, Ranger Storm Spirit/Tiger Pet, QHarb, and more.
My opinion is that Transfusion SHOULD be nerfed, Vaccum needs to be nerfed BUT NOT REMOVED, Necro as a whole needs to be buffed in regards to boon access, like Warhorn 5 Swiftness needing to be AoE since forever ago, AoE Stability on Well of Power not just self, and adding the Vigor from WvW Desert Empowerment trait onto PvE trait, so Scourge provides both Alac AND Vigor upon casting barrier.
In the meantime, Vaccum can maybe return with a Function Gyro treatment, where each downed person pulled increases the cd by 20% or 25%, meaning you can cast F4 Vaccum again in 20.4/22.95 seconds, which isnt completely destroying it, but its no longer a tool ppl constantly rely on.

[SnowdropFox.2456]

On 9/14/2024 at 8:16 PM, Shade.8037 said:

Untamed can invuln a mechanic then rez nine people in less than five seconds, there are many over 50K dps classes, herald can provide basically every boon in the game perpetually.

And Untamed also pulls them out of the mechanic? Where are all these 50k builds? And Herald pays for this by being constricted by Energy and lower damage compared to it's peers.

 

On 9/14/2024 at 8:16 PM, Shade.8037 said:

OR do you think MAYBE getting downed three or four times and having a scourge pull them out might actually HELP lower skilled player get used to a fight by seeing the effects of missing a reaction, without being just, out of the fight totally first mess up?

This is exactly the problem you fail to see: If you get rescued every single time you don't learn how to deal with the mechanic, you learn how to scream for the Hscg to rescue you. Why put effort in, if you can circumvent the problem entirely by virtue of 1 person being able to breathe and press A/D at the same time.

 

On 9/14/2024 at 8:16 PM, Shade.8037 said:

To make a larger divide between the casual players and the hard core raiders?

Picture this: Casual player 1 gets hard carried through Boneskinner. After a while they die less often, but still rely on the Hscg to be present. The player now has 250KP and joins an experienced group (which isn't saying much for BS, but stick with it). The experienced group obviously doesn't run Hscg, why would they? The casual players feeds and gets kicked after a while. They then open a forum thread complaining about toxic raiders/endgame players.

 

Teaching someone is easy, changing them isn't. Stop teaching them to rely on crutches like Hscg and they will get there in the end, even though the journey will be slightly harder.

Edited September 16 by SnowdropFox.2456

[Shade.8037]

10 minutes ago, SnowdropFox.2456 said:

And Untamed also pulls them out of the mechanic? Where are all these 50k builds? And Herald pays for this by being constricted by Energy and lower damage compared to it's peers.

 

This is exactly the problem you fail to see: If you get rescued every single time you don't learn how to deal with the mechanic, you learn how to scream for the Hscg to rescue you. Why put effort in, if you can circumvent the problem entirely by virtue of 1 person being able to breathe and press A/D at the same time.

 

Picture this: Casual player 1 gets hard carried through Boneskinner. After a while they die less often, but still rely on the Hscg to be present. The player now has 250KP and joins an experienced group (which isn't saying much for BS, but stick with it). The experienced group obviously doesn't run Hscg, why would they? The casual players feeds and gets kicked after a while. They then open a forum thread complaining about toxic raiders.

 

Teaching someone is easy, changing them isn't. Stop teaching them to rely on crutches like Hscg and they will get there in the end, even though the journey will be slightly harder.

Do you think everyone just likes being dead? You think those people that go down to stuff are just happy they went down and don't care? Some maybe, but most people just screw up and end up dead. But the DO try, and the more often they get to try the better they will get at it.

And you know what happens when they die in a group without a scourge? The other nine people, half of which are doing 45k dps, kill the boss.....And they get KP. Only difference is THEY DIDN'T GET TO PRATICE. Even in your own constructed situation, is is LITERALLY better for the person to have had a scourge with them every time, because they would have had more chances to learn. Or do you GG every time someone stands in stupid and dies? No? 

Same people who want this to go through, are the people who will kick those who are dying to stuff while trying to learn it when it is live. This is a danger to any onramping of new raiders and is defended by gatekeepers wanting to make the skill floor higher. 

NO advanced group makes use of scourge, they are the worst healers for the things healers actually do, for a group playing well. This only targets people learning, and trying to improve.

Edited September 16 by Shade.8037

[SnowdropFox.2456]

9 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

Do you think every just likes being dead?

9 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

The other nine people, half of which are doing 45k dps, kill the boss.....And they get KP. Only difference is THEY DIDN'T GET TO PRATICE

Maybe, and I know I sound insane, they should be in a practice run then.

Maybe, they should actually learn the mechanics instead of skipping them via Scourge.

Maybe, and this is definitely crossing a line of insanity, they could open up their own group in the scary LFG. You know? To practice...

 

Stop removing any kind of agency from these people.

Answer me this: How did people ever clear anything before PoF released? Literally everything was impossible to learn according to you...

Edited September 16 by SnowdropFox.2456

[Shade.8037]

14 minutes ago, SnowdropFox.2456 said:

Maybe, and I know I sound insane, they should be in a practice run then.

Maybe, they should actually learn the mechanics instead of skipping them via Scourge.

Maybe, and this is definitely crossing a line of insanity, they could open up their own group in the scary LFG. You know? To practice...

 

Stop removing any kind of agency from these people.

Answer me this: How did people ever clear anything before PoF released? Literally everything was impossible to learn according to you...

First, I never said anything was impossible, you lying about that proves how bad your points are. Second, who do you think heals those practice groups? Scourges, so that people trying to learn, get a chance to. Your hypocrisy, is astounding, if you don't want to be in groups where people get carried, don't bring a scourge. If you want to run a KP group, go ahead. 

What YOU are doing, is arguing to destroy the identity of scourge, because you don't want to manage your own groups. Don't turn that around into some sort of prewritten scree about the newbies not making their own groups or whatever. You are just proving your distain to new players to the content you are oh so good at is motivating your defense of this change.

Edited September 16 by Shade.8037

[SnowdropFox.2456]

33 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

First, I never said anything was impossible

It's called hyperbole, welcome to language as a whole.

33 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

Second, who do you think heals those practice groups? Scourges, so that people trying to learn, get a chance to

.Why? Aren't other healers not good enough suddenly? You can keep literally everyone alive with a Druid and arguably far easier than with a Scourge and you can even Search and Rescue them...

The difference here is bad play is being punished as intended, while Scourge circumvents the punishment 3x as much as a Druid due to the CD and target cap. Also Scourge has the utility traited in, while Druid has to sacrifice a utility slot. It's literally the single most OP build in the game.

33 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

What YOU are doing, is arguing to destroy the identity of scourge

Support Scourge isn't a teleport class, it's a barrier healer. Calm down.

33 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

Don't turn that around into some sort of prewritten scree about the newbies not making their own groups or whatever

That's literally what's happening, but sure. Clearly all these threads about KP being unfair and this and that are from people who make their own groups...clearly.

33 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

You are just proving your distain to new players to the content you are oh so good at is motivating your defense of this change.

You know nothing John Snow. I've ran more training raids, than you have participated in. I mean you can easily look up my KP.me, I wonder where yours is 😀

Edited September 16 by SnowdropFox.2456

[Shade.8037]

17 minutes ago, SnowdropFox.2456 said:

It's called hyperbole, welcome to language as a whole.

.Why? Aren't other healers not good enough suddenly? You can keep literally everyone alive with a Druid and arguably far easier than with a Scourge and you can even Search and Rescue them...

The difference here is bad play is being punished as intended, while Scourge circumvents the punishment 3x (or even 15x if you pull 5 people) as much as a Druid due to the CD and target cap. Also Scourge has the utility traited in, while Druid has to sacrifice a utility slot. It's literally the single most OP build in the game.

Support Scourge isn't a teleport class, it's a barrier healer. Calm down.

That's literally what's happening, but sure. Clearly all these threads about KP being unfair and this and that are from people who make their own groups...clearly.

You know nothing John Snow. I've ran more training raids, than you have participated in. I mean you can easily look up my KP.me, I wonder where yours is 😀

1: Resurrecting's people effectively is the class identity, because necromancers...they deal with dead things, it's in the name.

2: Actually, every other class heals better, part of the issue, thing is necromancers have this fun little thing where they can pull downed people out of stuff...so they can then get more practice. Meaning they are the best healer for running newbies, and exactly nothing else. 

3: I do not care, in the slightest, about your long running vendetta against LFG or people not putting together groups, it has exactly zero to do with this conversation besides showing that your interest in this topic seemingly comes purely from a desire to make it harder for people trying to get into the PvE scene which leads to.

4: This, this right here, this ego driven, peacocking about how cool you are, and how much you've played while trying to dismiss and belittle others with less time or kills than you, is the EXACT thing that makes people scared to get into raiding and strikes.

I have, zero doubt you have more experience at this game than me. You are probably better at it in every single regard. And if you were advocating for a nerf, or a change to transfusion, or approached it in a constructive way at all, i would be willing to maybe listen to you. But your eagerness to simply destroy a tool to help people get to grips with encounters, purely to hurt those you are already upset about due to some preexisting LFG drama? I put no stock in your opinion.

Edited September 16 by Shade.8037

[SnowdropFox.2456]

5 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

Resurrecting's people effectively is the class identity, because necromancers...they deal with dead things, it's in the name.

Point to me exactly where the rez power was nerfed? Oh wait it wasn't? We'll get 'em next time.

7 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

so they can then get more practice

You know, healing them would do the trick as well. And teach them to not stand in the bad, when it suddenly stops working. You know, like it was intended and is implemented in every game ever (even GW2 before PoF)?

11 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

that your interest in this topic seemingly comes purely from a desire to make it harder for people trying to get into the PvE scene which leads to.

27 minutes ago, SnowdropFox.2456 said:

I've ran more training raids, than you have participated in

How exactly do these two things go together? Maybe I'm just to small brain to understand.

12 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

belittle others with less time or kills than you, is the EXACT thing that makes people scared to get into raiding and strikes

I don't belittle you for your lack of skill or kills. I'm pointing out, that I in fact do not disdain new players after you attributed this exact complaint to me...

51 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

You are just proving your distain to new players

...remember?

[Shade.8037]

6 minutes ago, SnowdropFox.2456 said:

Point to me exactly where the rez power was nerfed? Oh wait it wasn't? We'll get 'em next time.

You know, healing them would do the trick as well. And teach them to not stand in the bad, when it suddenly stops working. You know, like it was intended and is implemented in every game ever (even GW2 before PoF)?

How exactly do these two things go together? Maybe I'm just to small brain to understand.

I don't belittle you for your lack of skill or kills. I'm pointing out, that I in fact do not disdain new players after you attributed this exact complaint to me...

...remember?

The rez power was nerfed years ago, to compensate for the pull...that we are now loosing.

As for the rest I have no interest in trying to out pedantic you. You flexed your whole KP thing at me just to 'prove' i am a less experienced and shouldn't have an opinion, and no matter how many training runs you do,  your utter contempt for new players is clear in how you speak about people setting up their own groups, and jumped to experience to dismiss my opinion.

I get it, your better, woo. Let those of us that aren't have our crutch little pathetic ability to learn the game with our friends. 

[SnowdropFox.2456]

4 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

The rez power was nerfed years ago

Amazing pivot.

5 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

your utter contempt for new players is clear in how you speak about people setting up their own groups

I'm not trying to be rude, but where exactly did I say this? Didn't I say verbatim that people who clearly belong in a training run, don't start training runs? How is that showing "utter contempt"?

7 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

and jumped to experience to dismiss my opinion.

I invite you again to read the end of the following post -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/151600-scourge-carry-doesnt-matter/?do=findComment&comment=2190337

I didn't, but if it helps you to create a narrative against opinions that oppose your own, be my guest.

 

[Shade.8037]

1 hour ago, SnowdropFox.2456 said:

You know nothing John Snow. I've ran more training raids, than you have participated in. I mean you can easily look up my KP.me, I wonder where yours is 😀

You LITERALLY say i know nothing and end with a condescending smile. 

1 hour ago, SnowdropFox.2456 said:

Maybe, and I know I sound insane, they should be in a practice run then.

Maybe, they should actually learn the mechanics instead of skipping them via Scourge.

Maybe, and this is definitely crossing a line of insanity, they could open up their own group in the scary LFG. You know? To practice...

We, are talking about a change to the class you brought all of this baggage into it. You pulled us into this weird elitism conversation.

 

 

8 minutes ago, SnowdropFox.2456 said:

Amazing pivot.

No pivot, our rez power was nerfed many times in DIRECT compensation for the pull. Now they take the pull with no return of that power, the class identity suffers in the end.

Edited September 16 by Shade.8037

[SnowdropFox.2456]

11 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

You LITERALLY say i know nothing and end with a condescending smile. 

Context matters you know (this was aimed at you knowing nothing about me, quite obviously):

1 hour ago, SnowdropFox.2456 said:

1 hour ago, Shade.8037 said:

You are just proving your distain to new players to the content you are oh so good at is motivating your defense of this change.

You know nothing John Snow. I've ran more training raids, than you have participated in. I mean you can easily look up my KP.me, I wonder where yours is 😀

[VirtuesOfSin.1305]

6 minutes ago, Shade.8037 said:

No pivot, our rez power was nerfed many times in DIRECT compensation for the pull. Now they take the pull with no return of that power, the class identity suffers in the end.

I'd argue that this nerf without propper power compensation does more than destroy class identity, but fundamentally removes the sole reason of playing Heal Scourge to begin with.

What does a Scourge offer that any other support class doesn't already offer and better? They're outclassed in barriers, raw healing, and providing key boons to the group. They have exactly ONE Aegis on a 20 second cooldown while others have a bare minimum of 3. They require a trait to give Protection Uptime and it doesn't even reach 100%. Their only forms of stability either require pre-existing conditions to convert (Well of Power) or require you to actively move around to each of your group (Trail of Anguish) - NEITHER of which provide AoE stunbreak and only provide Stunbreak to the Necromancer themself.

Heal Scourge needs compensation for this change, which Anet is not giving us. 

People can scream "Get Good" at players all they want, but when I PUG in LFG, I don't nor do the other 8 people in the LFG, want to get punished with a 10 man wipe for the mistake of a single person. People can yell at others all they want to learn mechanics, but that doesn't change the fact that Heal Scourge fundamentally doesn't exist anymore with this change anywhere in the game.

This change is more than "the class identity suffers", it's completely and fundamentally destroying the only healing nitch this class had in the first place. 

[SnowdropFox.2456]

3 minutes ago, VirtuesOfSin.1305 said:

This change is more than "the class identity suffers", it's completely and fundamentally destroying the only healing nitch this class had in the first place.

A-Net has the opportunity to give scourge a proper healing kit now, which was previously impossible due to transfusion with the pull existing in the first place. If they had given scourge a kit on par with Druid or Chrono, it would've made Hscg the de facto best healer in the game.

With the removal of the pull, A-Net can actually rework the healing ability without hard powercreeping every other healer.

Edited September 16 by SnowdropFox.2456

[VirtuesOfSin.1305]

1 minute ago, SnowdropFox.2456 said:

A-Net has the opportunity to give scourge a proper healing kit now, which was previously impossible due to transfusion with the pull existing in the first place. If they had given scourge a kit on par with Druid or Chrono, it would've made Hscg the de facto best healer in the game.

With the removal of the pull, A-Net can actually rework the healing ability without hard powercreeping every other healer.

The "opportunity" does not matter until they actually do it. And as a Necro main, I guarantee you that they won't be doing anything else with this class for the next 5 years - minimum.