BIS Roaming

[Gaiawolf.8261]

I don't consider solo roaming builds, period. You're always going to have a better shot running a roaming squad than trying to go it solo. 😏

[ilMasa.2546]

2 hours ago, Anekto.8391 said:

What is your go to profession and what do you like to roam on? If you are not running meta what meta do you encounter on your roams?

Look, initially I played a lot of Engi ,specifically the scrapper as soon as it was introduced into the game. Then Anet made some changes that I didn't like at all (imo it ruined that profession) and so I put it aside.
Today I mainly play warrior: I have 2 builds that I made and which basically are not the "usual reheated soup that "the meta proposes or that everyone generally runs with.
A berserker confiusion burst when I want to roam solo.
A spellbreaker for medium big scale roaming, versatile enough to have its own even in zergfight

I've played a bunch of classes and builds. The only ones I've never played that much are ele and rev.
I play the thief mainly to troll,when i feel like doing nothing lol : gear ministrel, perma evade and I get chased for hours

Edited September 20 by ilMasa.2546

[Anekto.8391]

13 minutes ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

A berserker confiusion burst when I want to roam solo.
A spellbreaker for medium big scale roaming, versatile enough to have its own even in zergfight

I've played a bunch of classes and builds. The only ones I've never played that much are ele and rev.
I play the thief mainly to troll,when i feel like doing nothing lol : gear ministrel, perma evade and I get chased for hours

A confusion burst? I think i have to log my warr and check skills where to find that confusion because im confused.

I think the people chasing a minstrel thief will eventually figure it out.

[CafPow.1542]

22 minutes ago, Anekto.8391 said:

A confusion burst? I think i have to log my warr and check skills where to find that confusion because im confused.

I think the people chasing a minstrel thief will eventually figure it out.

Chasing a thief in general is pointless even as a thief.

just dodge those dudes, don’t give em content. Easy.

[TheGrimm.5624]

11 hours ago, Anekto.8391 said:

As the title suggests ! Which class is best in slot for roaming?

 

Are there trade offs between classes? What class is unnoticed for roamers and secretly op? As in not yet meta? Anyone wanna share some secrets?

 

EDIT:

I want to hear some opinions and discuss but if you can support it by data and logic i would be even more happy!

While roaming, I am not sure I would say there is a BiS, but more counter builds. Example, if roaming on a full melee warrior than Harbi would seem OP since you have to close distance, but then harbi with a ranged roamer is easy meat. Ele in general has lots of build variations so they are an unknown until you get into. All classes currently have roaming build options.  Personally if you are roaming and aren't using templates then I recommend a roaming build that can work solo, in a havoc and jumping into a zerg. You won't be meta but, if you intend to roam and be in and out, better to be ready to go back to being solo when splitting off and rejoining. 

[idolin.2831]

13 hours ago, Anekto.8391 said:

Very interesting and thanks for the insight! Didnt expect warrior in there tbh but i think its worth checking out how you describe it. Seen lots of thieves forever and seen lots of willbenders since release. I always had a soft spot for warrior players just because they seem to have chosen a class against very disadvantagous odds. Spear willbenders im basically encountering "all the time now". It seems to add a lot for ppl to change it up.

Spear on willbender is very good for dive bombing and if you can time your burst right, but its long cooldowns can be detrimental in longer fights. I usually swap around between gs/long bow/spear/mace shield depends on the situation. 

Spellbreaker is bursted for dueling - crazily hard to lock them down since they have good access to resistance and stability and mobility skills, tons of CC, and good sustain thanks to Full Counter. Staff already gives them crazy utilities (CC which can even be used to bait dodges, mobility, heals and boons, block, some damage as well), now they have the option for spear as well.

Shoutout to Spear Virtuoso, spear on mesmer is a welcome addition since they need a good power melee option. Haven’t got to try it out myself yet but I feel like they’re still not too difficult to chase down/lock down, although maybe that’s because I’m on THE FOTM class right now (willbender).

Anet if (and when) you nerf willbender please buff power herald. Unnerf sword 4 and/or incensed response and I’ll be happy 🙏

[Anekto.8391]

2 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

Staff already gives them crazy utilities (CC which can even be used to bait dodges, mobility, heals and boons, block, some damage as well), now they have the option for spear as well.

Yeah i think warrior are the winners of the last weapon additions! I tried staff war and it was super fun. I tried to make a zerg build with staff and hammer and it was not bad. I always felt at odds roaming warrior because well i can run two melee options ofc but having one melee and one ranged always feels like the better choice to be able to interact at distance with others. But i never liked bow or rifle. Rifle feels especially bad but bow is condi and somehow feels odd to play too! One experience i had when i tried roaming warrior and some server was camping our spawn ( great right!) i got a whisper telling me how much of a noob warrior i am! We fought at our spawn and they kept us locked out of ebg.

[Mystiz.8795]

On 9/20/2024 at 10:53 PM, H K.4057 said:

For solo roaming, my criteria for good builds are:

1. Mobility. The build must have the mobility to disengage from any outnumbered fight or bad matchup.
2. Damage. The build must have the ability to apply their damage easily and finish fights quickly.

You will note that having good sustain is not a criteria that I consider important when rating solo roaming builds. The reason is that the need for good sustain can be reduced drastically with good positioning, good map awareness, and good mobility. While the build should have enough health to survive a burst from another roaming build, it's not an absolute must for the build to be able to tank damage. No amount of sustain will help you survive a gank group, and it's not worth compromising mobility or damage to be tankier.

With that in mind, the top of the food chain solo roaming builds are:

1. Power Rifle Deadeye. This build has very easy access to copious amounts of stealth using dodges with Silent Scope, insane mobility with Rifle 4, and crazy burst damage from 1500 range. You also have access to a cele build that spams immobilize and is basically unkillable, but the power build is already so good that you don't really need to be cele unless you are trolling. The trick to killing this build is to have several builds with good mobility chasing, and then several builds with good mobility shadowing the DE waiting for a burst opportunity. Not really feasible with the average wvw player being terrible, but I've farmed this build before with 3-4 good roamers.
2. Power Willbender. This build has insane burst, insane mobility, and incredible sustain if played and built correctly. There are many different iterations of this build, from the more balanced Mace/Shield to the burst of Longbow. I haven't seen a lot of SpearBenders, but the ones that I have seen have been absolutely incredible. There is no need to play Cele WB because Power is just so good. The trick to killing this build is 2-3 good roamers with great mobility. Survive their burst, burst them back, then chase them down. WB mobility makes it a bit harder, but landing just 1 CC while they are running can get you the kill because it lets other slower chasers catch up.
3. Power Spear Spellbreaker. This build has very good mobility, incredible sustain, nutty burst, and crazy CC chains. One big issue with older SB builds was that they were often double melee, which meant you could just kite their damage. With spear, the damage application is incredibly hard to avoid. This build is not as mobile as the WB and DE builds, but it makes up for it with its incredible sustain and incredible CC chains. Chase this build at your own risk because you will often find yourself 100-0 in one CC chain when the SB turns around. The trick to killing this build is to just be better than the SB or get 2-3 good roamers. The SB only having good, but not great, mobility gives you a lot more options while fighting it.

I don't consider other solo roaming builds, including degenerate stuff like Cele Harb, to be S-tier simply because they have large vulnerabilities that you can exploit. The lack of good mobility means those builds die to any +1 and can't chase down anyone 1v1. The lack of good damage application means they can be kited forever. Can you do well with these other builds? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean they are S-tier.

This list sounds about right, though I'm not sure about spear SB as I haven't met any good ones yet. Power D/P thief probably belongs on the list too. The odd thing is, a great roamer with high damage and escape potential isn't necessarily the best duelist. 

For instance, last week I finally decided to try WB. I watched a few videos to learn some combos, copied a build, tried to replicate it using what ascended equipment I have, and jumped right in. Within half an hour I already have several montage worthy engages where I jump into a group, down 1-3, then successfully escape. Me, a completely new WB with unoptimized gear. It felt like I had found the most OP class, but then I proceeded to get wrecked in many 1v1s by competent players who don't get insta burst down. Of course, this could be because I'm a WB noob, but when I play other strong duelists like cele harb, druid, axe thief, I farm WBs too (provided they don't run away). 

Yes cele is going to get nerfed so many currently op builds might no longer work, but I'm sure there are still a lot of builds/classes that will beat a WB 1v1. However, these classes will not be able to do what a WB can do - jump into groups, down several enemies, then run away looking like a boss. So in conclusion, one has to decide what his preference is for roaming - the yolo WB style, or one that aims to win as many 1v1s as possible. Personally, I belong to the latter, so I don't care if I cannot win 1v3s, or cannot escape if I get ganked by a small group. My goal is to win as many 1v1s as possible. Having said that, my 'duelist' builds also wins 1v2s and sometimes 1v3s on a regular basis. 

[felincyriac.5981]

There is only one real answer, and its thief, everything else is a tier below.  All thief specs have varying levels of viability in roaming, but since class has such busted base mechanics they all do well.  Power, cele, condi, it doesn't matter, you will still be S tier. Best spec would be deadeye, followed by daredevil. Ofc roaming isn't a real thing in wvw, devs don't balance for it, so I'd just play something that's fun tbh.

[idolin.2831]

2 hours ago, Mystiz.8795 said:

This list sounds about right, though I'm not sure about spear SB as I haven't met any good ones yet. Power D/P thief probably belongs on the list too. The odd thing is, a great roamer with high damage and escape potential isn't necessarily the best duelist. 

For instance, last week I finally decided to try WB. I watched a few videos to learn some combos, copied a build, tried to replicate it using what ascended equipment I have, and jumped right in. Within half an hour I already have several montage worthy engages where I jump into a group, down 1-3, then successfully escape. Me, a completely new WB with unoptimized gear. It felt like I had found the most OP class, but then I proceeded to get wrecked in many 1v1s by competent players who don't get insta burst down. Of course, this could be because I'm a WB noob, but when I play other strong duelists like cele harb, druid, axe thief, I farm WBs too (provided they don't run away). 

Yes cele is going to get nerfed so many currently op builds might no longer work, but I'm sure there are still a lot of builds/classes that will beat a WB 1v1. However, these classes will not be able to do what a WB can do - jump into groups, down several enemies, then run away looking like a boss. So in conclusion, one has to decide what his preference is for roaming - the yolo WB style, or one that aims to win as many 1v1s as possible. Personally, I belong to the latter, so I don't care if I cannot win 1v3s, or cannot escape if I get ganked by a small group. My goal is to win as many 1v1s as possible. Having said that, my 'duelist' builds also wins 1v2s and sometimes 1v3s on a regular basis. 

That's why roaming on multiple builds/classes not only makes you a better player but it's also more fun that way. If I want to turn my brain off, just fight in clouds in EBG and jump on groups or people, I'll hop on my spear WB. But if I want to actually roam around solo in borderland maps, I'll use my power herald and it's more fun because it's less predictable and more challenging.

There is a place for both playstyles, and while I think a nerf to WB is very very deserving, I hope it will keep the build's YOLO identity and still make it more difficult to win fights when the opponents are aware of you and have half a brain - because right now when I'm a bit more comfortable on WB (only started a few months ago too), I can win fights vs. obviously better players but on worse builds, because if I have the jump on the WB is that oppressive.

[Khenzy.9348]

Nerfing celestial (which is good) is a massive indirect buff to all power thief builds.

[CafPow.1542]

7 minutes ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

Nerfing celestial (which is good) is a massive indirect buff to all power thief builds.

Fixed

[H K.4057]

6 hours ago, Mystiz.8795 said:

The odd thing is, a great roamer with high damage and escape potential isn't necessarily the best duelist.

If we are talking about 1v1 duels, then cele builds will be at the top of the list. However, solo roaming isn't really about winning duels. The best way to win any fight in WvW is to just add another player, so mobility and burst damage will always be king. A big part of having a good time solo roaming is knowing which fights to avoid and playing a build that can disengage from those fights.

6 hours ago, Mystiz.8795 said:

Power D/P thief probably belongs on the list too.

I've melted and farmed bad D/P thieves simply because they are super glassy and have to be in melee to apply damage. Even bad rifle deadeyes are annoying to fight. The same sort of thing goes for Willbenders. Even bad Willbenders will chunk you for multiple 7k+ hits with basically no setup, and they are super hard to kite because all of their abilities are gap closers. Spellbreakers are the exception here because bad SBs are free kills. However, SB roamers are relatively rare, and the ones that I do see are almost always very good players.

[Khenzy.9348]

20 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

Fixed

*Eyeroll* Obviously. But to thieves in particular.

[MedievalThings.5417]

As posted by soo many, thief is top dog, always has been.  It is the only class that is low risk high reward.  You can get away with roaming on just about every class if you are good, but even skill, the thief will win almost every time or choose to just walk away.

[ZTeamG.4603]

On 9/20/2024 at 11:20 AM, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

I don't consider solo roaming builds, period. You're always going to have a better shot running a roaming squad than trying to go it solo. 😏

By that logic, why consider roaming at all? You're always going to have it easier running a boonball than a roaming squad.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

1 hour ago, ZTeamG.4603 said:

By that logic, why consider roaming at all? You're always going to have it easier running a boonball than a roaming squad.

Because my favorite type of play is 5-15 GvG playing hybrid support (mobile DPS sometimes to mix it up). It's faster and more thrilling than zergs. I also play zergs and think they can be really fun too, but small group and havoc roaming is even more fun. When I want to play solo, I usually play PVE, except to complete some dailies/weeklies that are good for a casual, chill time in WVW. Everyone has their kinks, and those are mine. I'm not saying everyone else has to play that way; it's just what I enjoy most. I'm glad the game mode is diverse enough to allow different interests.

It's not about easier, it's about funner. 😉

Edit: Also apologies if my 😏 wasn't working right and you took my comment too seriously. I'll give it a tune-up for next comment.

Edit 2: Zergs might be more fun if they weren't optimally tight boonballs. Spread them out some and give us more dynamic zerg play.

Edited Monday at 04:17 PM by Gaiawolf.8261

[CafPow.1542]

1 hour ago, MedievalThings.5417 said:

As posted by soo many, thief is top dog, always has been.  It is the only class that is low risk high reward.  You can get away with roaming on just about every class if you are good, but even skill, the thief will win almost every time or choose to just walk away.

This.

If he knows he gets countered / outplayed / whatever to much, he just gets away, especially 1v1 or something like that.

that‘s why it bugs me that people still think „stealth“ is the main issue. Cause just like thief, willbender is just as pointless to fight.

it‘s not stealth, it’s the insane mobility those 2 have.

now…. There will always be classes that have more mobility than others. That is okay so i don’t want it really to get nerfed. You just need to realize how pointless it is to fight those guys. Go full bunker mode, run away, and do something else. It’s really frustrating for them if you do that.

what i would adress is the basically „no ramp up burst“ they just pump in your face in a blink of an eye. If they catch you on the flip side (which happens regularly in wvw), there is nothing you can do.

the stealth thematic i‘d adress with more sources of reveal like „sic em“.

Edited Monday at 04:04 PM by CafPow.1542

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 9/23/2024 at 12:03 PM, CafPow.1542 said:

it‘s not stealth, it’s the insane mobility those 2 have.

Break combat and runaway builds. Always been one of those, WTW lol. Trying to get people to not chase them as well. Which is funny when forums state there is now way that a zerg would never chase down a player or fall for a decoy.......oh really? 🙂