Matchmaking never been this bad

[gyravi.9632]

I was climbing up in the new push gamemode and almost reached 1500+ because I wanted to try to get the new title.

From there I dropped down to 1250 like over 20 games loss, constantly matched with core rangers thieves with healing signet, people with random pve build who joined pvp for the first time, while the enemy was always perma double support and most of the times double willbender as well. Why this idiotic bad luck on my part? Obviously even if played a meta support or anything it's impossible to carry those kind of players.

And before you attack me, I am not a crazy pvp monthly at winner or something, but at least I run proper builds when I play and I know what I am doing.

I got matched even against Zan and we won, after that the lose streak happened and seems scripted, the enemy comp is full meta, I get pve pugs who click skills with random builds. And this was supposed to save pvp ok...

Tell me if you are experiencing the same please.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Yeah, if you were near 1500+ your best bet was to decay dodge.  Playing into a 20+ loss streak is the downfall of many (including myself).

I had opposite happened though, started with a 60% winrate in gold 1 lol, so just quit from there as no point--title isn't worth it anyway with the abbreviated time period leading to the same manipulation shenanigans we always see.  

In my whopping 12 games I am seeing patterns of all support throw teams, double support 'insta win teams', and 'we just came from fighting Tequatl' teams.  Really is a wild west and all the problems of PvP made 10x worse as you are correct, you simply cannot carry a game with the way the mode works.  Once that point moves past a certain threshold, there is no way to push it equal distance--so you either stall pointlessly for 5 min or ggwp to next.  

[arazoth.7290]

4 hours ago, gyravi.9632 said:

I was climbing up in the new push gamemode and almost reached 1500+ because I wanted to try to get the new title.

From there I dropped down to 1250 like over 20 games loss, constantly matched with core rangers thieves with healing signet, people with random pve build who joined pvp for the first time, while the enemy was always perma double support and most of the times double willbender as well. Why this idiotic bad luck on my part? Obviously even if played a meta support or anything it's impossible to carry those kind of players.

And before you attack me, I am not a crazy pvp monthly at winner or something, but at least I run proper builds when I play and I know what I am doing.

I got matched even against Zan and we won, after that the lose streak happened and seems scripted, the enemy comp is full meta, I get pve pugs who click skills with random builds. And this was supposed to save pvp ok...

Tell me if you are experiencing the same please.

duo queue both as hybrid damage supports.

[Mne Malo Tebya.2965]

Yall need to stop crying so much about not getting a title from a beta that nobody cares about...

[maxwelgm.4315]

I went up from 1250 to 1450  with a secret blue class that starts with "W" 🙂

[Chief.7143]

It is honestly the worst in any pvp game I have played in my life, and I am old. Hot garbage, random would be better.

[Locuz.2651]

Its the just the MMR system they use.

They push new players in to the average rating group. So at times u get guys who get 1v3ed. or even 1v4ed. 

[Captain Crapface.7528]

How do we even consider making new gamemode to "revive PvP" an option before removing the main problems killing it first?

[arazoth.7290]

3 hours ago, Mne Malo Tebya.2965 said:

Yall need to stop crying so much about not getting a title from a beta that nobody cares about...

but but.... it's a meme title 🥹🥹

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

13 hours ago, gyravi.9632 said:

I get pve pugs who click skills with random builds. And this was supposed to save pvp ok...

Tell me if you are experiencing the same please.

Glad someone else brought it up.

So I had originally came out at 1540 after my first 15 games on first day of release, first 3 hours or so of release. The first day of release, everyone was playing on their mains and Push felt strangely functional, and I was initially praising the game mode. I was having a lot of fun. The games were unusually balanced. There was a lot of back & forth back & forth gameplay. It wasn't ever too clear who was going to win actually. The games were exciting due to this.

I ended up playing 172 games total. The more and more I queued, I just kept losing more and more rating. And I don't mean usual win streaks/lose streaks. No, it was this bottomless rating loss to the point I was thinking "the hell is this?" I ended up deciding to stop playing the mode when I had officially dropped to 1267 rating, which is gold 1. This is by far the lowest rating I have ever been at in any season, even compared to 10+ years ago and I was relatively new.

There are so many reasons why this does not make sense, if everyone were playing fairly, there was no manipulation, and no favoritism baked into the algorithm. The more I queued and the lower my rating dropped, I swear the matches were getting harder. The lower my rating went, the worse PUGs I would get, and the more g3p1+ that would see stacked on the opponent team. No, I'm not exaggerating this. It wouldn't matter if I solo'd or duo'd, it just kept doing the same thing. A lot of you have heard me say "something is messing with my match making" for years now. But I feel like this Push beta really highlighted & showcases this. I'm not saying I'm one of the best players, but I'm a good player, even a strong player. Something is wrong with this when I am seeing players who possess half my value finishing this season in plat+ and taking their top 250 titles, but here I am, finishing in gold 1.

I don't know what the hell is going on here, but the Push experienced sucked due to it, and it left a really bad flavor in a lot of people's mouths. Is it just a lot of multi-window bots, sync queues, win trading? Is it just a lot of focus they put on players they don't like? Is there some kind of admin functions that forces losses on selected accounts? Or is it the total games played/glory rank phase 2 thing?

Whatever it is, people notice the bull****. It is very visible in 2024 in low population. Arenanet, if you want players to stick around, you need to clean up w/e is going on here. If you insist on maintaining the solo/duo only system in a 5man team mode, you must tend to whatever the hell these problems are because this is what's killing your game mode. It's so visible in 2024, that new players show up, and even if they don't understand what's happening, they feel it. And they "this sucks" and they leave. I know a great deal of people don't want to hear this is, but your best/easiest route to fixing these problems is simply to reenable 5man queueing, which would intrinsically gut out synch queue throws/bots on people's teams. It just needs to happen.

Edited September 21 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[maxwelgm.4315]

4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Glad someone else brought it up.

So I had originally came out at 1540 after my first 15 games on first day of release, first 3 hours or so of release. The first day of release, everyone was playing on their mains and Push felt strangely functional, and I was initially praising the game mode. I was having a lot of fun. The games were unusually balanced. There was a lot of back & forth back & forth gameplay. It wasn't ever too clear who was going to win actually. The games were exciting due to this.

I ended up playing 172 games total. The more and more I queued, I just kept losing more and more rating. And I don't mean usual win streaks/lose streaks. No, it was this bottomless rating loss to the point I was thinking "the hell is this?" I ended up deciding to stop playing the mode when I had officially dropped to 1267 rating, which is gold 1. This is by far the lowest rating I have ever been at in any season, even compared to 10+ years ago and I was relatively new.

There are so many reasons why this does not make sense, if everyone were playing fairly, there was no manipulation, and no favoritism baked into the algorithm. The more I queued and the lower my rating dropped, I swear the matches were getting harder. The lower my rating went, the worse PUGs I would get, and the more g3p1+ that would see stacked on the opponent team. No, I'm not exaggerating this. It wouldn't matter if I solo'd or duo'd, it just kept doing the same thing. A lot of you have heard me say "something is messing with my match making" for years now. But I feel like this Push beta really highlighted & showcases this. I'm not saying I'm one of the best players, but I'm a good player, even a strong player. Something is wrong with this when I am seeing players who possess half my value finishing this season in plat+ and taking their top 250 titles, but here I am, finishing in gold 1.

I don't know what the hell is going on here, but the Push experienced sucked due to it, and it left a really bad flavor in a lot of people's mouths. Is it just a lot of multi-window bots, sync queues, win trading? Is it just a lot of focus they put on players they don't like? Is there some kind of admin functions that forces losses on selected accounts? Or is it the total games played/glory rank phase 2 thing?

Whatever it is, people notice the bull****. It is very visible in 2024 in low population. Arenanet, if you want players to stick around, you need to clean up w/e is going on here. If you insist on maintaining the solo/duo only system in a 5man team mode, you must tend to whatever the hell these problems are because this is what's killing your game mode. It's so visible in 2024, that new players show up, and even if they don't understand what's happening, they feel it. And they "this sucks" and they leave. I know a great deal of people don't want to hear this is, but your best/easiest route to fixing these problems is simply to reenable 5man queueing, which would intrinsically gut out synch queue throws/bots on people's teams. It just needs to happen.

I agree Push only makes sense for real with 5v5 premades, Conquest can kinda keep a Solo only queue I think. In Push it feels really bad to get top damage/kills/healing at the same time and still lose knowing you did well, just because you had random necro #23 running away from point.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

10 minutes ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

I agree Push only makes sense for real with 5v5 premades, Conquest can kinda keep a Solo only queue I think. In Push it feels really bad to get top damage/kills/healing at the same time and still lose knowing you did well, just because you had random necro #23 running away from point.

Yeah look at this:

 

[coro.3176]

18 hours ago, gyravi.9632 said:

I was climbing up in the new push gamemode and almost reached 1500+ because I wanted to try to get the new title.

From there I dropped down to 1250 like over 20 games loss, constantly matched with core rangers thieves with healing signet, people with random pve build who joined pvp for the first time, while the enemy was always perma double support and most of the times double willbender as well. Why this idiotic bad luck on my part? Obviously even if played a meta support or anything it's impossible to carry those kind of players.

And before you attack me, I am not a crazy pvp monthly at winner or something, but at least I run proper builds when I play and I know what I am doing.

I got matched even against Zan and we won, after that the lose streak happened and seems scripted, the enemy comp is full meta, I get pve pugs who click skills with random builds. And this was supposed to save pvp ok...

Tell me if you are experiencing the same please.

So what you're saying is, class balance and game balance is really bad, because you can't do well when your teammates are playing core ranger, or thieves playing healing signet. I think what you mean is: core ranger needs buffs. Healing signet needs buffs, etc. Willbender needs nerfs, support needs nerfs.

I agree!

[OddFinrir.6801]

Their matchmaking system tries to force a 50% win rate instead of matching you with similar people to hope you stay at 50%. If you win 10 times in a row, get ready for people to not even port in or have new players on your team while the other team is two presets on broken builds. It's purposeful to keep people playing even if they are doing well instead of having them sit in a queue indefinitely. My friend was playing Pokemon Unite yesterday and I could see it doing the exact same thing, punishing him for winning too much by giving him bots and afks after a 10+ streak. I ended up just bringing up the algorithm so he didn't think he was going insane. Clearly what companies use to determine who is good and who is bad works, as it completely wrecks you if you do too well on purpose unless you straight up cheat, but it's matching you for a purpose other than keeping matches even played, which annoys the hell out of everyone. Conquest does the exact same thing. Keep in mind, these systems will also kick you in the teeth towards the middle of the rankings and less so at the lower and higher ends of it because that's the most volatile as it tries to even out people's ratios while they determine meta counters. But who cares. You're online. Please buy a new outfit in the store while you're here.

[maxwelgm.4315]

8 minutes ago, coro.3176 said:

So what you're saying is, class balance and game balance is really bad, because you can't do well when your teammates are playing core ranger, or thieves playing healing signet. I think what you mean is: core ranger needs buffs. Healing signet needs buffs, etc. Willbender needs nerfs, support needs nerfs.

I agree!

Playing around the balance is part of playing well. If someone plays an objectively bad champion in League of Legends they better know it has potential to perform well if they do this and that. If you go in with a bad build not knowing it's bad or knowing it's bad, it's both signs of being bad anyways. With that said, Push has no place in DuoQ, because the mode unusually punishes lack of coordination meaning that you can also sabotage a team easily by yourself, even inadvertently. It's not the fault of newbies really, it's just bad combo with the DuoQ.

[coro.3176]

4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Glad someone else brought it up.

So I had originally came out at 1540 after my first 15 games on first day of release, first 3 hours or so of release. The first day of release, everyone was playing on their mains and Push felt strangely functional, and I was initially praising the game mode. I was having a lot of fun. The games were unusually balanced. There was a lot of back & forth back & forth gameplay. It wasn't ever too clear who was going to win actually. The games were exciting due to this.

I was definitely doing much better at the start of Push because no one had figured it out yet, and it was all a glorious chaotic mess. Now that the meta is pretty set, I'm only playing a game per 3 days to stave off decay.

4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I ended up playing 172 games total. The more and more I queued, I just kept losing more and more rating. And I don't mean usual win streaks/lose streaks. No, it was this bottomless rating loss to the point I was thinking "the hell is this?" I ended up deciding to stop playing the mode when I had officially dropped to 1267 rating, which is gold 1. This is by far the lowest rating I have ever been at in any season, even compared to 10+ years ago and I was relatively new.

There are so many reasons why this does not make sense, if everyone were playing fairly, there was no manipulation, and no favoritism baked into the algorithm. The more I queued and the lower my rating dropped, I swear the matches were getting harder. The lower my rating went, the worse PUGs I would get, and the more g3p1+ that would see stacked on the opponent team. No, I'm not exaggerating this. It wouldn't matter if I solo'd or duo'd, it just kept doing the same thing. A lot of you have heard me say "something is messing with my match making" for years now. But I feel like this Push beta really highlighted & showcases this. I'm not saying I'm one of the best players, but I'm a good player, even a strong player. Something is wrong with this when I am seeing players who possess half my value finishing this season in plat+ and taking their top 250 titles, but here I am, finishing in gold 1.

I don't know what the hell is going on here, but the Push experienced sucked due to it, and it left a really bad flavor in a lot of people's mouths. Is it just a lot of multi-window bots, sync queues, win trading? Is it just a lot of focus they put on players they don't like? Is there some kind of admin functions that forces losses on selected accounts? Or is it the total games played/glory rank phase 2 thing?

Hi, it's me! I'm that worse PUG. I'm at 222 games and currently at ~1315, but it seems much more clear to me why I'm losing when I lose. It's not the algorithm being broken, it's just the luck of getting a good team comp vs not, and the enemy getting a good team comp vs not. I'm playing condi engi grenades because that is the build I enjoy playing. That is what I find fun. I'm not going to play a build I don't like just because that's the meta. This is a vidya game, not a job. It's 100% clear to me that I am the problem when I go up against the other team and it has 3x point-covering bubbles that nullify all my projectiles, and then insta-cleanse any that do get through. *shrug* what can ya do? Game's not fair. Life's not fair. I just go back to WvW roaming where I can play it.

There are a lot of games with afks and disconnects though, and I don't think those should lose rating.

[coro.3176]

3 minutes ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

an objectively bad champion

This is a fault in game's balance. There shouldn't be objectively bad champions. In a PvP game, designers should work to make all options equally viable, or as close to it as they can manage.

[HardStuckBronze.2439]

Genuinely curious, but how would reverting to 5 man premades help match making? I would think it would just be 5 man plat teams dominating. Great for that team but probably not great for everyone else considering how small the PvP population seems to be. Would basically stack all the talent on one team. Agree that matchmaking is atrocious but I’m not sure if this is the answer 

[Mne Malo Tebya.2965]

5 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I ended up playing 172 games total

My brother is a doctor. If you need someone to check you, hit me up. Anyways get well soon!

[Mne Malo Tebya.2965]

39 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah look at this:

You play LB/GS druid and you question why youre down to g1? LMAOO

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah look at this:

 

The conquest MMR has been none functional for at-least 1.5 years now. I have mentioned this many times. The definitive moment for me, was when I was in G1, and had around 3 games in a row with Boyce in it, who was top 5 at the time. That was when I knew kitten was broken.. and it has gotten worse in the last season or two. It does not matter if you are g1 to p1.. most games at any of those personal ranks is just a mix of players from all those ranks. If it wasn't for actually seing a rank, you would barely be able to know what rank you were at, given the low quality of games, only the rating gain/loss would indicate it.

 

The push ratings I don't even know. I placed plat, and multiple games within plat genuinely felt like silver level matches. The games I lost, were basically due to good WB's or good dual supports, or a good support+bunker, while we only had 1 support/bunker (me). I watched your video and thats what I seen, there were no support/bunker style builds on your team (or decent ones if there were), which could have bolstered the necros impact. Your spec, unfortunately is not in line with that mode, you can't properly contest, and you can't give any direct support, so if they can't do that, you lose. So add that with a horrible MMR and I think it is just compounding your problem. I have seen many people like you, who are decent, but tanked in rating becuase they are playin less impactful dps roles. What you are finding out now for your spec in push, is basically what it is like trying to play full support in conquest, you get double screwed by the spec role, and MMR.

 

I get the feeling my rating will also tank if I kept playing, solo core rev in push is better than what youre playing in push, but its nothing special, outclassed by a better hybrid/support/bunker spec duo.

 

In a nutshell.. locked MMRs need to happen, and push has shown a lot of you solo DPS why, what you experaince in push is genuinely what full supports experaince in solo conquest MMR. You need equal level team mates, who will play appropriate builds, to make certain roles work. Or, the skill level/spec choice is low/bad enough that lower end games are also balanced. Either way, MMR range is way too wide.

 

Edited September 21 by Flowki.7194

[arazoth.7290]

12 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

The games I lost, were basicaly due to good dual supports, or a good support+bunker, while we only had 1 support/bunker (me). 

 but its nothing special, outclassed by a better hybrid/support/bunker spec duo.

 

 

@Myror.7521and me apologise in advance for the ptsd that 1 match ♥️

[Flowki.7194]

2 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

@Myror.7521and me apologise in advance for the ptsd that 1 match ♥️

Im still not speaking to you for going staff war duo just to farm a meme title.. youre dead to me 😜 

[arazoth.7290]

Just now, Flowki.7194 said:

Im still not speaking to you for going staff war duo just to farm a meme title.. youre dead to me 😜 

😂 ps that title name is meme worthy to wear 😁

[Flowki.7194]

4 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

😂 ps that title name is meme worthy to wear 😁

But you became the thing you were fighting, and then farmed your revenent student with it. Youre like Walter when he sold out Jessie..

 

Spoiler

Hope you get the title though

 

Edited September 21 by Flowki.7194