weaver should bring options why did anet change this?

[Axl.8924]

Why did anet not balance out option for weavers wanting a support option?

I am no master but personally it should offer something to be worth bringing besides dps in case one day its dps is not up to par, and a niche.

Edited September 24 by Axl.8924

[Codename T.2847]

Not everything needs to work as support. I'd rather they make Weaver *the* strongest ele dps (or dps period) compared to Tempest and Catalyst

Edited September 24 by Codename T.2847

[chaoslordlol.3165]

No support memes with my weaver. Im already salty that Fire / Air spear 3 is galvanize and not something cool like the plasma ball from staff or the scepter beam. 

[Axl.8924]

They should def do big damage as weaver since you got close to mid range dps, and unlike necros risk getting hit more often and aren't tanky.

 

[thetwothousand.5049]

9 hours ago, Codename T.2847 said:

Not everything needs to work as support. I'd rather they make Weaver *the* strongest ele dps (or dps period) compared to Tempest and Catalyst

This is absolutely the biggest issues that weaver faces, and their are plenty of other specs like mirage or dragonhunter that are currently in the same boat. Selfish pure dps specs that, in a vacuum, are well designed and very fun to play. But because they aren't in a vacuum they really suffer. I love weaver, it was my main spec since PoF launch day up until FA tempest got buffed back up a few months ago. But I'm not stupid; why would I bring weaver when tempest has better damage, better range, better defense, better boons, better support options, more flexibility, and comparable CC? The answer is I simply dont.  

[AliamRationem.5172]

9 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Why did anet not balance out option for weavers wanting a support option?

I am no master but personally it should offer something to be worth bringing besides dps in case one day its dps is not up to par, and a niche.

You have tempest and catalyst for that.  Of course, they also DPS better than weaver and didn't receive a new expansion weapon that bypasses their profession mechanic.  At this point why even bother?

[Axl.8924]

Because i want weaver to offer something while doing dps so it can be taken for that and not just dps i think its a mistake.I do not know though if weaver or cata should do best melee dps.Cata is really hard and that kinda makes me think maybe cata should be highest dps for the class.Weaver can be condi or power and has decent stuff, but i am no master by any means.

I'm not talking about straight up being a support class.

Edited September 24 by Axl.8924

[Bleikopf.2491]

IMO, every spec should have something desirable, but they shouldn't be too much in competition with each other, either. 

Cata has Quickness, Tempest Alacrity. Apart from that everyone always brings damage. Weaver has..? It offers quite a few ways for damage mitigation with evades and barrier. It feels like the dueler spec. If they could build more on that and the swiftness/superspeed angle, maybe some kind of self-sufficient solo spec would fit? I mostly see Tempests for open world solo. 

[Codename T.2847]

11 hours ago, Bleikopf.2491 said:

IMO, every spec should have something desirable, but they shouldn't be too much in competition with each other, either. 

Cata has Quickness, Tempest Alacrity. Apart from that everyone always brings damage. Weaver has..? It offers quite a few ways for damage mitigation with evades and barrier. It feels like the dueler spec. If they could build more on that and the swiftness/superspeed angle, maybe some kind of self-sufficient solo spec would fit? I mostly see Tempests for open world solo. 

Mhm, tempi is way easier since Water rework, and that type of build even works in WvW surprisingly well. 

[Axl.8924]

I kinda wonder if maybe its better if catalyst should be highest dps considering its pretty hard, perhaps highest pdps and weaver could be condi or some sorta hybrid.

[Markus.6415]

No, i don't think weaver should be shoved into a support role position. Every class right now has 2 elite specs for boonheal, -dps with one being alac and one being quickness (or both in terms of chrono) and then they have 1 elite spec that is for pure dps. The problem with weaver is that the last 2 years of balance changes weren't nice to it and resulted in some damage modifier nerfs. While tempest for some reason recieved an insane amount of damage % modifiers and a significant buff to their elite mechanic.

Problem with weaver is that it's elite mechanic skills (dual attunements) are getting worse and worse compared to the other weapon skills that are recieving buffs lately, OR new dual attunement skills being designed as support/passive abilities adding 0 to the damage output. I was okay with hammer dual attunements being quite the uninspired addition, because it was never designed with being able to be used with weaver in the first place, but releasing a bunch of insanely useless dual attunement spear skills was a real disapointment.

 

[Jski.6180]

It was never a good option maybe if weaver got an on barrier apply get super speed or clear an condi but it was something tempest and cata could not do. Weaver needs something even if its just self boons of quickness and alacrity that tempest/cata can only do one for them self.

Or give weaver boon strip it would go a long way for the class chose. Also an weaver only condi would go a long way.

[Axl.8924]

3 hours ago, Markus.6415 said:

No, i don't think weaver should be shoved into a support role position. Every class right now has 2 elite specs for boonheal, -dps with one being alac and one being quickness (or both in terms of chrono) and then they have 1 elite spec that is for pure dps. The problem with weaver is that the last 2 years of balance changes weren't nice to it and resulted in some damage modifier nerfs. While tempest for some reason recieved an insane amount of damage % modifiers and a significant buff to their elite mechanic.

Problem with weaver is that it's elite mechanic skills (dual attunements) are getting worse and worse compared to the other weapon skills that are recieving buffs lately, OR new dual attunement skills being designed as support/passive abilities adding 0 to the damage output. I was okay with hammer dual attunements being quite the uninspired addition, because it was never designed with being able to be used with weaver in the first place, but releasing a bunch of insanely useless dual attunement spear skills was a real disapointment.

 

Like i said i don't mean only that i mean offering something on the side while doing good dps.I feel like ANET shot themselves in the foot with how they built ele making it super hard ele suffers because of having full on attunements and suffers for it while players want to be able to just   change quickly or be offered a way so that they can have a simple attunement build that can do the best  dps its capable of and not be overly piano  hands.

[CafPow.1542]

On 9/25/2024 at 5:09 PM, Markus.6415 said:

Problem with weaver is that it's elite mechanic skills (dual attunements) are getting worse and worse compared to the other weapon skills that are recieving buffs lately, OR new dual attunement skills being designed as support/passive abilities adding 0 to the damage output. I was okay with hammer dual attunements being quite the uninspired addition, because it was never designed with being able to be used with weaver in the first place, but releasing a bunch of insanely useless dual attunement spear skills was a real disapointment.

That’s my issue aswell.

i can only assume that designing weapon abilities for elementalists are already 4x the amount of work and weavers need additional work and it’s way easier to simplify it as we see in spear and hammer.

which is kinda understandable but also kinda lame and especially bad for weaver since the dual attacks are „his thing“.

at least they could buff some coefficients on existing weapons.

 

PS: some weaved dual attacks on spear look very cool tho. Like the earth/air whirlwind with rocks. So probs to the design team, it’s visually very appealing this one.

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, CafPow.1542 said:

That’s my issue aswell.

i can only assume that designing weapon abilities for elementalists are already 4x the amount of work and weavers need additional work and it’s way easier to simplify it as we see in spear and hammer.

which is kinda understandable but also kinda lame and especially bad for weaver since the dual attacks are „his thing“.

at least they could buff some coefficients on existing weapons.

 

PS: some weaved dual attacks on spear look very cool tho. Like the earth/air whirlwind with rocks. So probs to the design team, it’s visually very appealing this one.

Yeah, that's my assessment as well. An elementalist mainhand or 2H weapon requires more than five times as many skills as an equivalent weapon of other professions (four attunements plus six dual skills), and in an environment where weapons are the main content for professions in mini-expansions, even when cutting corners that represents about as much work as half of the other professions combined. So they cut corners. And the weaver dual skills are the easiest to skimp on because that only hurts one elite specialisation instead of all of them (however counterproductive it might be considering that weaver is the only elite specialisation that isn't punished for remaining at range in PvE).

I don't think it's a good excuse (in part because it's a bit of a wasted effort when the result is a bad weapon that people don't want to use), but it is all too clear what's going on.

Edited September 30 by draxynnic.3719

[CafPow.1542]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I don't think it's a good excuse (in part because it's a bit of a wasted effort when the result is a bad weapon that people don't want to use), but it is all too clear what's going on.

Same. It’s just in some way understandable.

i hope that offhand weapons or mainhand weapons come where they can put more effort in it because it sucks a little.

no new weapon provides auras and transmutes, they don’t play so well on combos and suck on weaver. At this point, „new weapons“ on elementalist is just „meh“ and that’s a little bit lame. Cause the class itself is super enjoyable i think and dagger/dagger is still fun after all these years for me. Well…

[Bleikopf.2491]

59 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

i hope that offhand weapons or mainhand weapons come where they can put more effort in it because it sucks a little.

Ironically, Pistol would have probably worked better as an offhand weapon? If they moved some interesting effects from double attunement (e.g., dodge) onto the main attunements. Offhand weapons are cramped, because Warhorn pushes anything out of PvE. 

1 hour ago, CafPow.1542 said:

no new weapon provides auras and transmutes, they don’t play so well on combos and suck on weaver.

Hammer provides at least one aura, but even that is conditional. Other than that, yeah. New weapons neglect Combos and Auras in favour of gimmicks. Which inevitably leads to missing synergy with the traits which expect Combos and Auras. 

They're starting to specialise new weapons more. This could be a good thing, but it's moving around away from the jack-of-all-trades mentality. Which has been hindersome in the past.

[CafPow.1542]

40 minutes ago, Bleikopf.2491 said:

Hammer provides at least one aura, but even that is conditional. Other than that, yeah. New weapons neglect Combos and Auras in favour of gimmicks. Which inevitably leads to missing synergy with the traits which expect Combos and Auras. 

They're starting to specialise new weapons more. This could be a good thing, but it's moving around away from the jack-of-all-trades mentality. Which has been hindersome in the past.

The way i see it, imagine a new mesmer weapon with no phantasms. Or a guardian weapon with no symbols. A necro weapon that doesn’t give any lifeforce.

that‘s „new ele weapon“.

instead we got some hoops to jump through like bullets and etchings that don’t synergize at all and basically just make the weapon into a „you have to press buttons this way my guy“. And if you don’t strictly do the 1-2-3 combo it just sucks.

no… not really. Spear is okay tho and optically appealing, i like it occasionally in open world.

 

/esit it’s btw not so much about creating auras (which at least catalyst does well). Transmuting them is also an important thing. More flips for transsmutes i say.

Edited September 30 by CafPow.1542

[draxynnic.3719]

I think the gimmicks are basically another form of cutting corners. Instead of coming up with different skills with different properties, they let the gimmick set up a template, throw in a few minor variations, and then leave it to the art department to sell it.

Let's face it, air, water and earth skill 5 are basically the same skill, just that one heals, one is a hard CC, and one is a soft CC. You're basically doing the same thing with each element. And that's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

[Bleikopf.2491]

32 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

The way i see it, imagine a new mesmer weapon with no phantasms. Or a guardian weapon with no symbols. A necro weapon that doesn’t give any lifeforce.

that‘s „new ele weapon“.

Mostly agree. Elementalist has a few workarounds though, and they have been abused I think. Catalyst is the biggest excuse to not give Hammer Combo Fields or (unconditional) Auras, because the spec supplied both.  Ele needs more combos and Auras on weapons. Transmute skills also shouldn't be limited to "pure" legacy aura skills, or at least those traits should be reintroduced in new weapons. Aura transmutation is important in some builds and they shouldn't be limited to older weapons because of this. 

35 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

instead we got some hoops to jump through like bullets and etchings that don’t synergize at all and basically just make the weapon into a „you have to press buttons this way my guy“. And if you don’t strictly do the 1-2-3 combo it just sucks.

 

25 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think the gimmicks are basically another form of cutting corners. Instead of coming up with different skills with different properties, they let the gimmick set up a template, throw in a few minor variations, and then leave it to the art department to sell it.

At this point I'm convinced the gimmicks are actively hindering the weapons. Instead they should just put more stuff on the weapons that traits can use. Combos, Auras, Transmutes, CC.. 

Thought experiment: New weapon is shield. Skills include all Aura skills w/ Transmute, but on long cooldown. Would that be more engaging than Pistol/Hammer/Spear? 

 

[Markus.6415]

7 minutes ago, Bleikopf.2491 said:

Thought experiment: New weapon is shield. Skills include all Aura skills w/ Transmute, but on long cooldown. Would that be more engaging than Pistol/Hammer/Spear?

Nah, definately not. That would just mean some already existing skills reused, the majority of the players will hate it and a usefulness in PvE seems very unlikely. Might get some niche use in PvP and WvW, but that's definately not where the biggest playerbase engages.

Also I gotta admit I don't understand the craving for auras and transmutes on more weaponskills at all, maybe because they are not important in PvE, but they are definately not as important to the class as phantasms for mesmer or symbols for guardians.

[CafPow.1542]

40 minutes ago, Bleikopf.2491 said:

Thought experiment: New weapon is shield. Skills include all Aura skills w/ Transmute, but on long cooldown. Would that be more engaging than Pistol/Hammer/Spear? 

Mhh…

i would prefer aura skills like the old ones. I‘d rather have every weapon has acces to 1 aura and you can combine whatever.

wh earth 4 would just need a transmute flip and we’re good.

infact, spear does already give quite some auras especially as a weaver. A flip here and there, 1 per weapon to transmute and we are golden.

that is what i would implement. And as you stated correctly, maybe the aura generation of catalyst would then need some tuning.

that would be my approach.

cause when you give 1 weapon all the auras, it becomes incredibly mandatory for any build that likes to use auras and i‘d preder the possibility of choosing the weapon.

[CafPow.1542]

39 minutes ago, Markus.6415 said:

Also I gotta admit I don't understand the craving for auras and transmutes on more weaponskills at all, maybe because they are not important in PvE, but they are definately not as important to the class as phantasms for mesmer or symbols for guardians

I disagree.

go take a look at our talent trees and count all the effects that include auras, auras that give additional boons, and effects that transmute auras.

also is CC important in pve? What about blast finisher? Burning applied? Damage reduce?

all that is as relevant in pve as it is in pvp imo.

I’m not saying all and everything should revolve around auras but all new weapons completely ignore them while some flip skills wouldn’t hurt. And imo that is ignorant against a core mechanic which is a pity. Don’t you think?

Edited September 30 by CafPow.1542

[Bleikopf.2491]

30 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

wh earth 4 would just need a transmute flip and we’re good.

 

23 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said:

I’m not saying all and everything should revolve around auras but all new weapons completely ignore them while some flip skills wouldn’t hurt.

What if, instead of bullets, Pistol would transmute Auras for bonus effects? 

[CafPow.1542]

1 hour ago, Bleikopf.2491 said:

 

What if, instead of bullets, Pistol would transmute Auras for bonus effects? 

Yeah or, keep the bullets but if you use one, it transmutes an aura or whatnot.

the possibilities are endless and I’m not advocating for the skills we have on the old weapons but now we have nothing that works with that. Which is a missed opportunity imo.