How long for gaurd/mes nerfs?

[Flowki.7194]

Any road map here or what? Group fights with 2-3x gaurds/mes in every game. Block/immune spam while spewing out massive cleave, so skill based, so engaging. What a fking degen 0 skill/risk meta.

 

 

[Shinra.8564]

I'm with you. Sick of the willbender spam.

In before the willbender mains tell you how its fine, nothings broken, and to l2dodge.

Edited Tuesday at 08:06 PM by Shinra.8564

[WingSwipe.3084]

Wrote something regarding this before, think its good to reiterate it:
"You have to take into account that the devs play Guardian and a good majority (35-40% of the total pop) of players play it too.

On this assessment you are calling out the devs and 1/3 of the player base who will contort themselves any way possible to justify what is happening and further buffs to it.

It will happen in this thread, goalpost will be moved, unjust comparisons will be made, “skill issue” will be stated and outlandish statements such as “WB is mid” will roll out like rain.

You are the minority and the majority will gaslight and punish you for trying to stating the obvious."

This applies to guardian more then anything else, mesmers are getting real nutty but Terrorhuz had some really good suggestions on how to take them down a notch.

[Flowki.7194]

22 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Wrote something regarding this before, think its good to reiterate it:
"You have to take into account that the devs play Guardian and a good majority (35-40% of the total pop) of players play it too.

On this assessment you are calling out the devs and 1/3 of the player base who will contort themselves any way possible to justify what is happening and further buffs to it.

It will happen in this thread, goalpost will be moved, unjust comparisons will be made, “skill issue” will be stated and outlandish statements such as “WB is mid” will roll out like rain.

You are the minority and the majority will gaslight and punish you for trying to stating the obvious."

This applies to guardian more then anything else, mesmers are getting real nutty but Terrorhuz had some really good suggestions on how to take them down a notch.

 

All the high skill floor specs had very little representation, and still got witch hunted into nerfs. Now all the witch hunting copers are real quite, running around dominating on their low skill floor/low risk builds, with no further competition from specs they cannot play themselves. SPB - reaper - WB - Virt - druid - thief.. hush little copers, the real pros are nerfed out of the competition, youre safe now.

Edited Wednesday at 06:48 PM by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 those Skillfull builds are only as long skill full as they are just not meta ^^ Trust me in this ;d

[Flowki.7194]

13 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 those Skillfull builds are only as long skill full as they are just not meta ^^ Trust me in this ;d

Meta status is not the spec difficulty though, different things.

[jdawgie.1835]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

All the high skill floor specs had very little representation, and still got witch hunted into nerfs

This is so true bro. And it's because things like Power Herald when used correctly are almost unbeatable. Its amazing how hard it is to actually get there with stuff like that tho. They removed a lot of the "chess like" elements that were very prominent in this game in Vanilla. People loose to Power Herald and cant fathom had badly they got out played. People struggle to accept skill gaps. Anet has been slowly reducing the skill gap inside of professions for ages tho. Since HoT IMO. There is a loud majority that scream for nerfs and Anet choose to embrace them at the cost of a game that used to require a brain. 

Edited Wednesday at 07:52 PM by jdawgie.1835

[Khalisto.5780]

I woudn't be surprised if they include chrono nerfs oct 8th patch, willbender on the other hand can take a very long time.

 

[Prostyler.9658]

Guardians are currently the strongest class, whoever has more Guardians on the team wins. I usually see groups of two as guards and they win everything 100% of the time.

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

And it's because things like Power Herald when used correctly are almost unbeatable. 

If you find one unbeatable like that, then you got outskilled by miles. Power Herald is by far unbeatable, it's rather not hard to kill/pressure them making them flee kite away to recover because they're weak atm

[jdawgie.1835]

19 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

If you find one unbeatable like that, then you got outskilled by miles. Power Herald is by far unbeatable, it's rather not hard to kill/pressure them making them flee kite away to recover because they're weak atm

Im aware - that was my point. Its hard for others to accept when they are out played. My response is usually to ask for ongoing duels from the person I perceive to be better than me. Also - I am referring to a time that was PRIOR to Power Herrald Nerfs. My post was a response to Flowki - and his original statement brother. Herald is WAS  class with an extremely high skill cap with a very high ceiling for maxing the potential of the class. Additionally, it was hard to increase the floors so to speak so you had either very bad to average Heralds or a few really good ones. 

Im not sure if you think I am complaining about Herrald or how you arrived there but I am doing the opposite brother. 

[aerouant.7408]

I rather see reaper nerfed, every  game has at least 3-5 and its frigging annoying. 

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

Im aware - that was my point. Its hard for others to accept when they are out played. My response is usually to ask for ongoing duels from the person I perceive to be better than me. Also - I am referring to a time that was PRIOR to Power Herrald Nerfs. My post was a response to Flowki - and his original statement brother. Herald is WAS  class with an extremely high skill cap with a very high ceiling for maxing the potential of the class. Additionally, it was hard to increase the floors so to speak so you had either very bad to average Heralds or a few really good ones. 

Im not sure if you think I am complaining about Herrald or how you arrived there but I am doing the opposite brother. 

okayy, nvm then

[WingSwipe.3084]

6 hours ago, aerouant.7408 said:

I rather see reaper nerfed, every  game has at least 3-5 and its frigging annoying. 

Why not all three?

Necro has been strong since... well... forever it seems while Guardian and Mesmer are just running around with damage immunity for 10 seconds plus.

Its fine if they do damage, but please, let us fight back and chill out with the blind/weakness spam.

Resistance is quickly becoming a necessity in fighting any of these three professions.

[Flowki.7194]

15 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

If you find one unbeatable like that, then you got outskilled by miles. Power Herald is by far unbeatable, it's rather not hard to kill/pressure them making them flee kite away to recover because they're weak atm

That is exactly how a roam spec should be though? They get to decide when the fight starts, get the chance to strike first and kill with spike damage.. so it only stands to reason that if you predict the jump, and outplay the spike damage, the Herald should have to run away.

 

This current bs of virt/WB being able to start the fight, get outplayed.. and still stick around spewing out damage like they a group fighter? absolute bs. Thief still has its issues also, it has to make a whole slew of mistakes before you can punish it.. while it can punish players for making half the mistakes. I counted 3 CCs in a row on a thief last night, in a row?.. and he still barely took damage and escaped. Where is the "thief is squishy"? L2p on my part I guess.

 

Anet have destroyed risk. Herlad is fine, it is the blueprint of roam balance, pick your fights properly or reap the consequence. The problem with playing herald or even vindi/power ele/holo, is that you are surrounded by specs that are not punished for the same for bad plays. WB/virt/thief/SPB... and so on. They will punish you for mistakes, you can't punish them. Is it any wonder all you see is the low risk builds then? Is it?

Edited Thursday at 12:40 PM by Flowki.7194

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I love how everyone is slowly figuring out they've all been playing the lightning bunker game now that spellbreaker isn't occupying as much of their focus.

You love to see it.  Wish I didn't need to play a weird nerf tax every time this show came on but 🍿

[Endo.1652]

18 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 

All the high skill floor specs had very little representation, and still got witch hunted into nerfs. Now all the witch hunting copers are real quite, running around dominating on their low skill floor/low risk builds, with no further competition from specs they cannot play themselves. SPB - reaper - WB - Virt - druid - thief.. hush little copers, the real pros are nerfed out of the competition, youre safe now.

Who are the real pros?? You??

Edited Thursday at 01:08 PM by Endo.1652

[Flowki.7194]

30 minutes ago, Endo.1652 said:

Who are the real pros?? You??

You know what an objective observation is right?

 

35 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I love how everyone is slowly figuring out they've all been playing the lightning bunker game now that spellbreaker isn't occupying as much of their focus.

You love to see it.  Wish I didn't need to play a weird nerf tax every time this show came on but 🍿

People don't do the above, so not suprising. Virt/WB have been the real sPVP meta for months, along with SPB-thief. If youre not playing one of those power builds.. well.. bunker up <condi tempets etc>

[Endo.1652]

6 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

You know what an objective observation is right?

Objective observation huh? I mean are we actually basing this off of your experiences in gold 1 or whatever it is you play in? Or the complaints from the same 5 people in the forums?

The current meta is pretty boring. But from what I see from you and others, is that you're just upset you cant play the style of build you main cause it is not in the meta (for your case its power rev), but when it was meta and bloated all to hell youd defend it and even play it down as being not that strong. Other people do the same exact thing. They only care about their mains and end up becoming delusional about them. People generally dont care about the actual state of the game as long as the spec they main is on top. 

[Flowki.7194]

37 minutes ago, Endo.1652 said:

Objective observation huh? I mean are we actually basing this off of your experiences in gold 1 or whatever it is you play in? Or the complaints from the same 5 people in the forums?

The current meta is pretty boring. But from what I see from you and others, is that you're just upset you cant play the style of build you main cause it is not in the meta (for your case its power rev), but when it was meta and bloated all to hell youd defend it and even play it down as being not that strong. Other people do the same exact thing. They only care about their mains and end up becoming delusional about them. People generally dont care about the actual state of the game as long as the spec they main is on top. 

There are objective observations, such as power/condi spec representation, which for months has been dominated by SPB-reaper-WB-virt, along with ever less risky thief builds (from g1 to p1). Then there is subjective opinions, on what is considered degen/toxic/overperforming etc etc.

 

Many people agree SPB is crept in so many ways.

Many people agree WB jump mechanics are casual, lower risk, compared to things like Herald.

Many people agree reaper has had quite an easy free ride, the all weapons really served it well.

Many people agreed (before virt showed its face) that virt mechanics are degen, much inline with WB/SPB complaints.

Many people agree thief is squishy, but its mobility/stealth makes it so low risk, that in realty, it is only squishy if youre bad at it.

 

My opinion is also in line with what use to be popular opinion. Now, this place has become a bit of a cope echo chamber, and WB/Virt/reaper is defended heavily, SPB still strong AF, thief still low risk. So, either the good power players of old stopped playing? Or they all jumped ships and are now playing the degen they use to call out. Which is it? Becuase spec representation is objectively showing that it has to be one or the other. If youre not vsing a lower risk power build, you are vsing a condi bunker build. Playing any of the traditional higher risk power builds is litterally handicapping yourself.

 

I would like to play more power builds, vindi, herald, ele, lb/gs untamed, holo, zerker and on and on. I tried them all, even made a power zerker recently. There are a few low risk specs that I pointed out above which are now gate keeping any of the higher skill floor OR higher risk builds from being played.. unless you enjoy a massive handi cap. Bunker condis are also an issue ofc, if you play a high floor or high risk build you get shafted no matter where you go, 1v1, roam, group fight.. doesn't really matter, youre very much mechanically shut out from having a real impact, unless the MMR throws you a massive skill gap.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 02:35 PM by Flowki.7194

[Endo.1652]

37 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I would like to play more power builds, vindi, herald, ele, lb/gs untamed, holo, zerker and on and on. I tried them all, even made a power zerker recently. There are a few low risk specs that I pointed out above which are now gate keeping any of the higher skill floor OR higher risk builds from being played.. unless you enjoy a massive handi cap.

I mean thats how its been for a long time. It was like that when power vindi was meta too. I hate to say it but you defended power vindi pretty hard when hammer vindi was one of the most unfun things to play against.

I get what youre saying about the risk and reward though. Its probably different between certain leagues of players. Currently the best comp is 2 spellbreakers, 2 support chronos, and a condi vindi. That combo has enough damage to destroy most other comps while never dying. If you mirrior it, the games are basically 0-0 for the first few minutes if their skill level is similar. Right now avatar chrono actually has more damage output than some other dps because of how spear works. Thats kind of a problem.

Most of the good players who play the broken stuff are the people who no longer main a class and just multi classes whatever lets them live the easiest. Tbh they dont care if something gets buffed or nerfed. They will move onto the next best thing. The ones defending stuff are genuinely 1 tricks who cant really adapt but care about being relevant.

Either way the meta is Zzzzzz and people are biased.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

10 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Why not all three?

Necro has been strong since... well... forever it seems while Guardian and Mesmer are just running around with damage immunity for 10 seconds plus.

Its fine if they do damage, but please, let us fight back and chill out with the blind/weakness spam.

Resistance is quickly becoming a necessity in fighting any of these three professions.

Correct.  

This is why i can't run strength line. 

Id rather roll and crit for 25% less (resilient roll) than have a whole traitline be invalidated because one of my opponents many fringe functions is to make every hit you do a FIFTY PERCENT CHANCE to do nothing.

The game isn't about skill if after all the skill counting, trapping people in cc and managing cooldowns,the game can just decide to let them live. It's so stupid. Nothing will make you want to quit faster than landing a cc on a ranger in between their lightning reflexes, then glancing your next 4 hits because their pet used a skill and procced wilting strike or whatever. Since most of my big damage is from single hits this destroys power builds harder on war than on a bunch of other classes, where the damage is split up into little packets that have their own chances to not glance.

Now if you put resistance someplace I could access it for my bursts on strength or arms...👀

Edited Thursday at 04:26 PM by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

42 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Correct.  

This is why i can't run strength line. 

Id rather roll and crit for 25% less (resilient roll) than have a whole traitline be invalidated because one of my opponents many fringe functions is to make every hit you do a FIFTY PERCENT CHANCE to do nothing.

The game isn't about skill if after all the skill counting, trapping people in cc and managing cooldowns,the game can just decide to let them live. It's so stupid. Nothing will make you want to quit faster than landing a cc on a ranger in between their lightning reflexes, then glancing your next 4 hits because their pet used a skill and procced wilting strike or whatever. Since most of my big damage is from single hits this destroys power builds harder on war than on a bunch of other classes, where the damage is split up into little packets that have their own chances to not glance.

Now if you put resistance someplace I could access it for my bursts on strength or arms...👀

They put in strength when using a heal skill.

[Prostyler.9658]

It doesn't matter which class is currently OP, the PvP here is completely broken anyway. No wonder you lost your e-sport status so quickly. It just keeps getting worse. IN every match 100 to 500 ranked. Rarely one that is over 400 to 500. At least in the gold 1/2 range it is like that. It's just a matter of luck whether you farm or are farmed.

[Saiyan.1704]

its fine, nothings broken, l2dodge.