Revenant the only class without a great/meta tier build

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Jinks.2057 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:The REAL issue is you.

Correct

Revs are fine

That’s the problem. Revenants are fine, where all the other classes (except Elementalist) are powerful.Which is also similar to the fact that “Revenants are underpowered, other classes are fine.”

And I’m not a Revenant player by the way. The class is so bad that I never died/lost a point/had to leave against Revenant in the past 4 seasons except akaCryptic, who is the highest ranked Revenant player I know .

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:That’s the problem. Revenants are fine, where all the other classes (except Elementalist) are powerful.

I kind of agree with this. I know it wont happen, but I would be personally happy if they nerfed the bogus aspects of the meta builds instead. Every single meta build right now has something about it which makes it unfun to fight against:

Holosmith: CC:E stab access is flat out broken. Every engie and his mom just pops corona and spams their rotation without even thinking about interrupts.Mirage: Can chain invulns / stealth / evades for far too long, and can simply TP or portal as soon as the fight doesn't go their way. Cannot die in the hands of a good player.Marauder Thief: Evade access is high enough that they can get away with just spamming half their evades and do OK.Scourge: Has no global cooldown on instant AoE abilities. Requires absolutely no skill to play so you get cocky silvers who are in the wrong MMR bracket due to it.Spellbreaker: Does too much damage for how hard it is to kill one. Probably the most fair of the bunch but fighting one just feels like their stats are overtuned.Druid: Far too easy for them to reset the fight and CA is a direct upgrade over core Ranger. CA + spam heals + black hole stealth = all your mistakes no longer matter.FB: Fine on its own but becomes stupid when paired with certain builds.

All of these issues with the above builds have one thing in common: They carry players through their mistakes far too much.

Revenant and Ele struggle not because they suck but because they are fair.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

@"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:Revenant is pretty close to being an S tier meta spec I'm honestly surprised the balance team didn't go that extra bit last balance patch to make it happen. A couple sustain changes here and there and revenant would have been a very healthy replacement for the old explosives dodge roll holo spec especially since that spec got nerfed and replaced with a more side node oriented role.Yeah, I think rev can be picked in a 5v5 non class stacking scenario even now and could compete for slot with holo, tho not for the "side node oriented role" ofc.

[Sereath.1428]

I've said it before, I'd rather have many of the overtuned builds be brought down to Rev's level.

[Buran.3796]

@apharma.3741 said:Revs damage is absolutely insane (especially in WvW) it's just ANet seem to throw revs might and quickness and what does that corrupt to? Ah yes, weakness and slow, the exact 2 conditions that would destroy most power builds ontop of rev having poor condition removal options.

Was. Impossible Odds no longer give quickness, which slays the hammer damage and chances of landing the slow attacks (Phase Smash, Drp the Hammer...). The quickness on weapon swap is atrocious, and anyway no one ouside a in zerg vs zerg will sacrifice the +20% damage from Swift Termination to get Brutality (which has internal cooldowns). Yeah, Rev is still meta in WvW zergs; outside that has not much use. PoF was a net loss for the class, not only due all the other specs are more competitive but also because the last three patches had nerfs for the PvP Rev (despite lacking a place in the PvP meta). Also they ditched the block in the off hand sword, so there's no way in the future that a Rev spec using main hand pistol, scepter or another ranged weapon would be viable in PvP (short bow is crap because spents 5 weapons skills slots without providing a single defensive or mobility tool).

[michelada.2947]

ventari/herald works great for me and is super fun to play

[Arheundel.6451]

@Jinks.2057 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:Rev is fine and needs nothing

shh don't tell the truth

fixed for accuracy

You're alone in your badly informed opinion so I hardly see how you tell the "truth"

I guess Naru pretty much saying it's A tier just went over your head.

Seems certain players can't perform on classes unless that class is broken OP.

That's why we see so many revenants in ranked and top 250, and so many posts thanking Anet for finally fixing revenant's problems from the last 3 patches /s

Helseth also said scepter Mesmer would be OP when they added conditions to autos. Pardon me if I don't give a kitten what some DH main said.

We've been through this before you and I.

It seems your problem with Rev is that it isn't broken OP. Maybe all the past success you had with the class was it being over tuned? I mean we had "pro" revs like months after HoT dropped destroying pro's with 3yrs exp on their mains....that's all personal skill right?

No.

The problem with Rev is it was broken OP for far too long and the players who "main" it, aka FoTM it, got used to that. So they believe that Rev should always be that strong. Now that it's not and it can't carry those players you are seeing complaints that it's too weak. When the reality is it's fine.

The REAL issue is your skill level not the class.

I think the real issue is that only what is OP works in GW2...unless you reset the bar for everybody and start anew, it will be impossible to just nerf/buff specs in a vacuum :-any melee spec must be able to endure thief evade spam and absurd warrior sustain-any spec in general must be able to endure the vast condi spam coming from necros, mesmers.....

The worst part is that this spec must be able to perform both acts at the same time aka be OP...the solution would be to nerf everybody

[Jinks.2057]

Someone posted some logic finally.

Rev is fine and needs nothing

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

@Jinks.2057 said:Someone posted some logic finally.

Rev is fine and needs nothing

Yeah, just dirt from other professions boots. It's what this class is made for, to serve as training dummy for other classes :/

[Sereath.1428]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:Rev is fine and needs nothing

shh don't tell the truth

fixed for accuracy

You're alone in your badly informed opinion so I hardly see how you tell the "truth"

I guess Naru pretty much saying it's A tier just went over your head.

Seems certain players can't perform on classes unless that class is broken OP.

That's why we see so many revenants in ranked and top 250, and so many posts thanking Anet for finally fixing revenant's problems from the last 3 patches /s

Helseth also said scepter Mesmer would be OP when they added conditions to autos. Pardon me if I don't give a kitten what some DH main said.

We've been through this before you and I.

It seems your problem with Rev is that it isn't broken OP. Maybe all the past success you had with the class was it being over tuned? I mean we had "pro" revs like months after HoT dropped destroying pro's with 3yrs exp on their mains....that's all personal skill right?

No.

The problem with Rev is it was broken OP for far too long and the players who "main" it, aka FoTM it, got used to that. So they believe that Rev should always be that strong. Now that it's not and it can't carry those players you are seeing complaints that it's too weak. When the reality is it's fine.

The REAL issue is your skill level not the class.

I think the real issue is that only what is OP works in GW2...unless you reset the bar for everybody and start anew, it will be impossible to just nerf/buff specs in a vacuum :-any melee spec must be able to endure thief evade spam and absurd warrior sustain-any spec in general must be able to endure the vast condi spam coming from necros, mesmers.....

The worst part is that this spec must be able to perform both acts at the same time aka be OP...the solution would be to nerf everybody

Well said, the game is still an unbalanced clusterfuck. Overbuffing other specs so they are on par with the busted ones is incredibly idiotic and lazy.

I'm completely against making Revenant a brainded overtuned class like almost everything else is atm, its risk/reward ratio is really well balanced right now.

[Arkantos.7460]

just the 3 condi cleanse on legendswap and im fine

[Abelisk.4527]

Revenant is not fine, it is dull.

Core Rev is nonexistant.Renegade is nonexistant.And now Herald is endangered.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:All of these issues with the above builds have one thing in common: They carry players through their mistakes far too much.

Revenant and Ele struggle not because they suck but because they are fair.

Yeah and like no other class revenant gets punished hard for every mistake they do in fight. Because neither they got passive stone signet/endure pain/blocks in their builds that proc under burst damage nor over 9k stability paired with aegis. And if you are fighting ranger/mesmer you can kiss your burst goodbye unless they keep on fucking up.

@XxsdgxX.8109 said:I've said it before, I'd rather have many of the overtuned builds be brought down to Rev's level.That'd not work. Most specs out there got more than one build that work, nerf one and they will pop up with an another unlike revenant. Do you suggest nerfing every single class till they become an utter garbage?

[Jinks.2057]

@Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:Someone posted some logic finally.

Rev is fine and needs nothing

Yeah, just dirt from other professions boots. It's what this class is made for, to serve as training dummy for other classes :/

You're being over dramatic.

There is nothing wrong with the class and it needs nothing.

This is all just a huge skill check

[Morwath.9817]

@messiah.1908 said:

@Morwath.9817 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:people pay attention to metabattle?!

Devs do, as far as Quaggan knows, and for example Rev has pretty high rating (91%) on metabattle, which doesn't make any sense.

you mean no rev is in the meta or great builds only in the goods one with score of 70.....

Ooo, one should install Taimi newest invention - irony meter!On serious note, you quoted post written so long ago, that Herald had 91% that day! Wooo-hooo!

[Miles Smiles.8951]

@Arkantos.7460 said:just the 3 condi cleanse on legendswap and im fine

Wow-wow, slow down, lad. Let's start with small things like making sword 3 not bug 50% of the time or get interrupted by slow.

[apharma.3741]

@Buran.3796 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Revs damage is absolutely insane (especially in WvW) it's just ANet seem to throw revs might and quickness and what does that corrupt to? Ah yes, weakness and slow, the exact 2 conditions that would destroy most power builds ontop of rev having poor condition removal options.

Was. Impossible Odds no longer give quickness, which slays the hammer damage and chances of landing the slow attacks (Phase Smash, Drp the Hammer...). The quickness on weapon swap is atrocious, and anyway no one ouside a in zerg vs zerg will sacrifice the +20% damage from Swift Termination to get Brutality (which has internal cooldowns). Yeah, Rev is still meta in WvW zergs; outside that has not much use. PoF was a net loss for the class, not only due all the other specs are more competitive but also because the last three patches had nerfs for the PvP Rev (despite lacking a place in the PvP meta). Also they ditched the block in the off hand sword, so there's no way in the future that a Rev spec using main hand pistol, scepter or another ranged weapon would be viable in PvP (short bow is crap because spents 5 weapons skills slots without providing a single defensive or mobility tool).

Swift termination only kicks in under 50%, the thing is a lot of rev skills will do 6-7k on a squishy target so it's pointless to take, added to that is quickness is about a 20% damage boost in most cases. Most power revs run herald and some form of boon duration so that quickness from brutality is up for 4s on weapon swap. Sure I think the 1s ICD is kinda dumb on the trait as you simply can't burn through more than maybe 3-4 stacks of stab without some crazy investment and excellent timing. Also I'm not just talking hammer revs who quite frankly are so ridiculously overturned in damage I find it hard to see why anyone should defend it.

Yes I disliked the changes to offhand sword too, I really enjoyed the block but at least there's a teleport on the offhands and the damage scaling on those abilities can go very high, higher than a 2.0 coefficient if you look at them so it's not all terrible. What the main hands would need is defensive skills on them, you can see this with sword but it's absent from mace which says to me that the devs need to figure out a stable layout with rev more than anything.

However as I said, the biggest thing holding rev back is it's abysmal condition cleansing ability and how prevalent conditions are. It doesn't help that traited cleansing is so hilariously bad.

[brannigan.9831]

No, when one class is below just about everyone else its not that everyone else is too good and the one class is fine. What is more feasible from a balance stand point boosting one class or nerfing everyone else? Boosting one class of course. And yes Rev is bad its played the least by far I don't even need to go into the nuts and bolts of revenant the fact they are played the least shows they are bad. People individually can be quite dumb but as a group they are quite smart so when the wisdom of the crowd is that Revenant is weak it is almost certainly weak in reality.

[BeLZedaR.4790]

@brannigan.9831 said:No, when one class is below just about everyone else its not that everyone else is too good and the one class is fine. What is more feasible from a balance stand point boosting one class or nerfing everyone else? Boosting one class of course. And yes Rev is bad its played the least by far I don't even need to go into the nuts and bolts of revenant the fact they are played the least shows they are bad. People individually can be quite dumb but as a group they are quite smart so when the wisdom of the crowd is that Revenant is weak it is almost certainly weak in reality.

And this attitude is why we power creep up more and more and more and more...Rev is skillful now, and is very strong compared to most off meta builds (except direct condi spammer counters that can cause you trouble). Other classes are just so strong that the gameplay is dumbed down (scourge, fb, holo, mirage, druid, sb).No rev played rev for the braindead gameplay and wants to get powercreeped to keep up. I want nerfs to the braindead broken shit.

[Tomiyou.3790]

Pretty sure you guys are overreacting. Rev isn't the only class without a Great/Meta build, as ele belongs there too (tho I think that weaver FA could be in Great tier, but only if the player is very skilled).Rev is real strong right now, except when you get bombed by scourge red circles of death. Condition clear is the only real weakness it has, and it also misses a passive proc like the other classes to prevent being spiked down (and no, the passive shield block that triggers at 25% hp is not good, it's trash).When it comes to damage tho, it has one of the best bursts in the game right now (shiro TP + sword #4 + sword #2 + staff #5) and very good sustained damage. Imo it just needs a passive proc that also clears condies (and don't tell me passive procs are bad game design, I know that, but can't really do much when a thief Steals on you with a 6k sword #3).

It is a GREAT carry if you know when to kite and ANTICIPATE.

[Buran.3796]

@apharma.3741 said:

However as I said, the biggest thing holding rev back is it's abysmal condition cleansing ability and how prevalent conditions are. It doesn't help that traited cleansing is so hilariously bad.

The lack of cleansings in the Rev is perfectly fine; is a drawback which was balanced by the raw damage Rev has at the HoT released. Then the nerfs came but the class was still playable (in power builds) until pretty much the PoF release. PoF made it bad, but the nerfs to power Herald AFTER PoF turned it into a crap. Revert the Equilibrium nerf, the Dismantle Fortification nerf and the Impossible Odds nerf and the the Herald will be in a fair position despite all the condi spam flying around. Rev can be played seamlessly without the need of stability, cleanses and even blocks, as long as ANet lets us to hit hard. But keep degrading every tool we had patch after patch and we will end serving as a PvE mules to carry stacks of dragonite and so.

[Halikus.1406]

@"BeLZedaR.4790" said:Rev is skillful now

Don't make me laugh...What is so skillful about porting and pressing sword 4 for the so called burst dmg in comparison to all the preparations we had to do to proc equilibrium for example?This is exactly why I'm not playing rev anymore, because I don't like the path that anet is taking with my class making everything "easier".In case you have a short memory this is what they said when they gutted it:

"We also took a hard look at the Invocation trait line and removed several of the harder-to-use traits based on energy thresholds"

I've said this countless times for people who say "rev is fine" to me but rev still has the most glitched weapon since it's creation to this moment, very poor synergy between specialization trees, it's easily pressured by condi dmg, very poor customization with it's utilities, an archaic system like energy gating our every action from weapons to utilities, 0 weapon diversity for it's builds, completely dependant of it's elite spec "Herald" since launch which makes core builds completely null, etc...So if you think that "Rev is fine" PLAY with it for a week at least and then come back to say that it is fine.

I completely agree with those who say that a buff to condi cleanses like cleansing channel and legend swap would bring life back to us revs but this is not even half of the issues that anet has to fix, which they could've already fixed by now if they weren't busy reworking mesmers the class that has a place anywhere in any game mode at any time.I don't want an OP / easy-to-play class, I want a class that I can have fun with without the feeling that I always have to do 10x more than my oponents to perform well.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

How many revs have there been in monthly AT ever?

[JayAction.9056]

@Jinks.2057 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:Rev is fine and needs nothing

shh don't tell the truth

fixed for accuracy

You're alone in your badly informed opinion so I hardly see how you tell the "truth"

I guess Naru pretty much saying it's A tier just went over your head.

Seems certain players can't perform on classes unless that class is broken OP.

That's why we see so many revenants in ranked and top 250, and so many posts thanking Anet for finally fixing revenant's problems from the last 3 patches /s

Helseth also said scepter Mesmer would be OP when they added conditions to autos. Pardon me if I don't give a kitten what some DH main said.

We've been through this before you and I.

It seems your problem with Rev is that it isn't broken OP. Maybe all the past success you had with the class was it being over tuned? I mean we had "pro" revs like months after HoT dropped destroying pro's with 3yrs exp on their mains....that's all personal skill right?

No.

The problem with Rev is it was broken OP for far too long and the players who "main" it, aka FoTM it, got used to that. So they believe that Rev should always be that strong. Now that it's not and it can't carry those players you are seeing complaints that it's too weak. When the reality is it's fine.

The REAL issue is your skill level not the class.

The "pros" in this game are/were no better than anyone else lmfao. Some of them were actually kind of shitty. I have farmed near all of them before in solo q. When rev came out btw, anybody who switched to rev had already been playing for years. When I played warrior I 1v2d and 1v3d.

The best players imo only play solo q. I say this as someone who has been legend every season solo q that I played.

I'm pretty sure the best people in game don't even do the ATs...

Rev was never broken op. How shit at the game are you? Even in season 1 it wasn't the best performing spec.

Do you even leaderboard?

[Jinks.2057]

@JayAction.9056 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:Rev is fine and needs nothing

shh don't tell the truth

fixed for accuracy

You're alone in your badly informed opinion so I hardly see how you tell the "truth"

I guess Naru pretty much saying it's A tier just went over your head.

Seems certain players can't perform on classes unless that class is broken OP.

That's why we see so many revenants in ranked and top 250, and so many posts thanking Anet for finally fixing revenant's problems from the last 3 patches /s

Helseth also said scepter Mesmer would be OP when they added conditions to autos. Pardon me if I don't give a kitten what some DH main said.

We've been through this before you and I.

It seems your problem with Rev is that it isn't broken OP. Maybe all the past success you had with the class was it being over tuned? I mean we had "pro" revs like months after HoT dropped destroying pro's with 3yrs exp on their mains....that's all personal skill right?

No.

The problem with Rev is it was broken OP for far too long and the players who "main" it, aka FoTM it, got used to that. So they believe that Rev should always be that strong. Now that it's not and it can't carry those players you are seeing complaints that it's too weak. When the reality is it's fine.

The REAL issue is your skill level not the class.

The "pros" in this game are/were no better than anyone else lmfao. Some of them were actually kind of kitten. I have farmed near all of them before in solo q. When rev came out btw, anybody who switched to rev had already been playing for years. When I played warrior I 1v2d and 1v3d.

The best players imo only play solo q. I say this as someone who has been legend every season solo q that I played.

I'm pretty sure the best people in game don't even do the ATs...

Rev was never broken op. How kitten at the game are you? Even in season 1 it wasn't the best performing spec.

Do you even leaderboard?

It's hard to take you serious when you are making threads like this.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/25118/give-revenant-stealth/p1

I'm pretty sure if you are needing stealth to compete on your rev it's a safe assumption that you aren't farming anyone.

Thank you for the input though and have a nice day