Reddit vs Forum

[Vayne.8563]

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

If I were a dev, I wouldn't want to post on the official forums anyway, because they're far more hostile territory. Why would I open myself up to that kind of abuse. Ridiculous posts on reddit tend to get downvoted and disappear. I prefer it for that reason myself.

Because it's their job, and Anet is the company they work for?I don't have a reddit account, and don't plan on ever registering for one. I'd like to hear official comments about the game on the OFFICIAL forums for the game.

Nope. being on the forums is not their job. Unless you know something I don't, Anet devs were not hired to post on the forums. Their job is to make a game. That's what their job is. Talking to you or me? Not their job. I don't really care if anyone has or doesn't have a reddit account, but if someone tried to tell me that I couldn't post on the forum of my choice in my off hours, I'd tell them where to go.

[DarcShriek.5829]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I said what I meant to say the first time.. Not more.. not less.. and not something else.

I'll say it again.

@STIHL.2489 said:If the forums don't feel like a welcome place for the staff of the company to frequent and have open dialogue with the players,, then they fail at their intended task.

But watching posters make all kinds of wrong assumptions about a single sentence, does explain why devs would not want to even try to talk with this crowed.

You veil your intent with the word "welcoming" but fail to understand something can be welcoming but still not someone's cup of tea. Starbucks can be very welcoming but just because the staff may be welcoming (like they are paid to be) someone may not enjoy the atmosphere or the type of customers that are attracted to it, or disagree with the company's political or social views or just plain and simple don't like coffee or their other products. At that point, why enforce people to go there?

And if I'm wrong in interpreting your post, then what's your solution to this perceived problem? Is there a problem? If there is, should it be solved? At what costs?

I don't veil anything, I am saying this very bluntly, and now for the 3rd time, This is

their

forums, their personal private playground for them and their clients. If it does not have the atmosphere, features, and set up, so that the Dev team/Staff feels that this is the best most conductive comfortable place to talk with their community, them these forums have failed at the very task they exist for.

But you assume the wrong purpose for the forum. The main function is for the devs to get information from the players. It's not to communicate. Communication is simply a supplemental function to these forums. This is the best place to get info to the devs for future development. The devs do read these forums and many of the ideas here do end up in the game.

It is not the devs job to talk to you every time you feel lonely.

[Vayne.8563]

@"TheQuickFox.3826" said:Why would I switch to a 3rd party forum when I can discuss here directly on the official website forums?

Sure, I was active on the Guild Wars Guru forum and the Guild Wars 2 guru forum, but they don't look too good nowadays. (I mostly gave up on that "try again in a few minutes" part)

I switched to a 3rd party forum because I found it better than this one. That's why I switched. Can't answer why you would. Comparing reddit to Guild Wars 2 guru is a bit silly. It's like comparing Facebook to Myspace.

[Menadena.7482]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

If I were a dev, I wouldn't want to post on the official forums anyway, because they're far more hostile territory. Why would I open myself up to that kind of abuse. Ridiculous posts on reddit tend to get downvoted and disappear. I prefer it for that reason myself.

Because it's their job, and Anet is the company they work for?I don't have a reddit account, and don't plan on ever registering for one. I'd like to hear official comments about the game on the OFFICIAL forums for the game.

Nope. being on the forums is not their job. Unless you know something I don't, Anet devs were not hired to post on the forums. Their job is to make a game. That's what their job is. Talking to you or me? Not their job. I don't really care if anyone has or doesn't have a reddit account, but if someone tried to tell me that I couldn't post on the forum of my choice in my off hours, I'd tell them where to go.

That would make sense IF the they were talking about something unrelated to their job. If you are talking job-related info the company has a right to set a communications policy (or even put everything under a NDA).

[Vayne.8563]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Mil.3562 said:I think the question here is not whether is Reddit or GW2 official forum a better place to seek answers from Anet but rather WHY Anet admin/forum staff chose to reply in Reddit when their own OFFICIAL GW2 FORUM has many topics created by their anxious players seeking for a simple reply but gets none?

One example is the most recent login problem after the patch. I wondered why too.

If the argument is a matter of their choices to reply where they wanted to, that is invalid. We are talking about

technical issues

here and not just any queries, like ' when is Wintersday is going to end? '

A question for you with regards to your question:

How would you respond if certain devs simply answered you by saying they just prefer posting on Reddit? Or that they browse other interests on Reddit?

I'd instantly cease wasting any time on these forums, if the devs think they suck and not worth bothering with.. why should players use them?

It doesn't matter if you stop going to these forums or not. Because you're still making the assumption it was made pimarily as a tool to contact devs. That's an unwarranted assumption in my opinion. Devs will go, off hours on their own time, to what they want to go to. Reddit is likely to be a better place, because the community will have a louder voice there more generally.

Not everyone but the idea of downvoting completely worthless posts means you have less silly stuff on the first page. It's easy to find a meaningful critique there. If I were a dev it's where I would go, because trawling through something like the official forums would take more time and would be considerably less efficient.

[Vayne.8563]

@Menadena.7482 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

If I were a dev, I wouldn't want to post on the official forums anyway, because they're far more hostile territory. Why would I open myself up to that kind of abuse. Ridiculous posts on reddit tend to get downvoted and disappear. I prefer it for that reason myself.

Because it's their job, and Anet is the company they work for?I don't have a reddit account, and don't plan on ever registering for one. I'd like to hear official comments about the game on the OFFICIAL forums for the game.

Nope. being on the forums is not their job. Unless you know something I don't, Anet devs were not hired to post on the forums. Their job is to make a game. That's what their job is. Talking to you or me? Not their job. I don't really care if anyone has or doesn't have a reddit account, but if someone tried to tell me that I couldn't post on the forum of my choice in my off hours, I'd tell them where to go.

That would make sense IF the they were talking about something unrelated to their job. If you are talking job-related info the company has a right to set a communications policy (or even put everything under a NDA).

Okay let's take this analogy then, to my own jobs. I ran a computer store. We had a website. I could talk on the website if I wanted to people who bought in my store. By the same token I could go onto ANY computer site about computers and talk about my store.

There are advantages to posting on and perusing reddit over the official forums, by matter of design. Anet tried to enable downvotes here and people complained. But downvoting is a way of showing which thoughts the online community as a whole feel strongest about, which would be very important to me as a dev. I can look at a reddit post, see a ton of downvotes and get the idea that this concept is not supported by the community. That can't be done here anymore.

There's no benefit to Anet in not allowing a dev to post in his own time on a forum of people who play this game, or are interested in this game, even if it's not the official forum. The only downside is that some people are offended by what those devs choose to do in their free time. I'd say those people are the ones with the problem not Anet and not the devs.

If you make the assumption that the forums were created pimarily for Anet to communicate with us, you might have a point. But there's no real evidence that that's the case. I'm my opinion, this forum was created for us to communicate with each other and it serves that function. Reddit is a far better tool for getting an idea about the pulse of the community.

[STIHL.2489]

Well, if I was a Dev, seeing the sheer volume of people that will argue endlessly purely for the sake it,. would get me to stay away from posting here.

[Sonderm.4639]

Lot of strawmen here. I doubt anyone would claim that the primary function of this forum was to contact devs or that devs should read all posts or should answer all questions posted.But it surely one of its functions is to get in contact with devs (after all, it happens from time to time) and there surely are ANet employees reading the forums that easily could forward questions to the relevant devs and - if the developer him- or herself doesn't feel like answering in person could post for them.If devs are posting on reddit in their spare time - good for them. However, it does reflect kind of badly on ANet (IMO) if they don't have communication policies in place that ensure that customers using their very own forum do not get the same amount of information about the game they play as people using a 3rd party forum.

[Leo G.4501]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I said what I meant to say the first time.. Not more.. not less.. and not something else.

I'll say it again.

@STIHL.2489 said:If the forums don't feel like a welcome place for the staff of the company to frequent and have open dialogue with the players,, then they fail at their intended task.

But watching posters make all kinds of wrong assumptions about a single sentence, does explain why devs would not want to even try to talk with this crowed.

You veil your intent with the word "welcoming" but fail to understand something can be welcoming but still not someone's cup of tea. Starbucks can be very welcoming but just because the staff may be welcoming (like they are paid to be) someone may not enjoy the atmosphere or the type of customers that are attracted to it, or disagree with the company's political or social views or just plain and simple don't like coffee or their other products. At that point, why enforce people to go there?

And if I'm wrong in interpreting your post, then what's your solution to this perceived problem? Is there a problem? If there is, should it be solved? At what costs?

I don't veil anything, I am saying this very bluntly, and now for the 3rd time, This is

their

forums, their personal private playground for them and their clients. If it does not have the atmosphere, features, and set up, so that the Dev team/Staff feels that this is the best most conductive comfortable place to talk with their community, them these forums have failed at the very task they exist for.

Ok so then each point:

• Atmosphere. This is likely a studio obligated decision. How their forums look likely has to be indicative of their Brand's image. If a decision doesn't like the look or overall features of their studio's dedicated forum, the costs to change it may be far more expensive than just not using it... And we're talking about individuals here. The devs are not a collective entity with the same preferences.
• Type of poster. I've feel a lot of those that frequent here are entitled as I feel a majority of my time her is spent arguing with such posters. It's drama these devs may not be paid to deal with. They could hire more mods but there goes costs again.
• Forum policies. Again, the devs are individuals and may disagree with some kind of posting policy or how the forums are modded.
• Don't like coffee...er, forums. They may read Reddit for their news or are active on a specific subreddit meaning they may occasionally be drawn to a topic on the gw2 subreddit.

But beside those possibilities, if you feel these forums fail, you are welcomed to your opinion. I'm not trying to subvert how you feel.

[Leo G.4501]

@Menadena.7482 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

If I were a dev, I wouldn't want to post on the official forums anyway, because they're far more hostile territory. Why would I open myself up to that kind of abuse. Ridiculous posts on reddit tend to get downvoted and disappear. I prefer it for that reason myself.

Because it's their job, and Anet is the company they work for?I don't have a reddit account, and don't plan on ever registering for one. I'd like to hear official comments about the game on the OFFICIAL forums for the game.

Nope. being on the forums is not their job. Unless you know something I don't, Anet devs were not hired to post on the forums. Their job is to make a game. That's what their job is. Talking to you or me? Not their job. I don't really care if anyone has or doesn't have a reddit account, but if someone tried to tell me that I couldn't post on the forum of my choice in my off hours, I'd tell them where to go.

That would make sense IF the they were talking about something unrelated to their job. If you are talking job-related info the company has a right to set a communications policy (or even put everything under a NDA).

They do have communications policies. Apparently, in those policies, they are allowed to post on other platforms so long as they do not disclose certain information.

The issue being brought up here is that posters are suggesting further policies to be created and enforced. This would likely result in the devs simply saying less.

[Vayne.8563]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Menadena.7482 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

If I were a dev, I wouldn't want to post on the official forums anyway, because they're far more hostile territory. Why would I open myself up to that kind of abuse. Ridiculous posts on reddit tend to get downvoted and disappear. I prefer it for that reason myself.

Because it's their job, and Anet is the company they work for?I don't have a reddit account, and don't plan on ever registering for one. I'd like to hear official comments about the game on the OFFICIAL forums for the game.

Nope. being on the forums is not their job. Unless you know something I don't, Anet devs were not hired to post on the forums. Their job is to make a game. That's what their job is. Talking to you or me? Not their job. I don't really care if anyone has or doesn't have a reddit account, but if someone tried to tell me that I couldn't post on the forum of my choice in my off hours, I'd tell them where to go.

That would make sense IF the they were talking about something unrelated to their job. If you are talking job-related info the company has a right to set a communications policy (or even put everything under a NDA).

They do have communications policies. Apparently, in those policies, they are allowed to post on other platforms so long as they do not disclose certain information.

The issue being brought up here is that posters are suggesting further policies to be created and enforced. This would likely result in the devs simply saying less.

Exactly my argument. If you tell people that can't post in the place that want to post on their on free time, they'll just stop posting. I would.

[TheGrimm.5624]

I admit that this does drive me a bit bonkers at times.

[STIHL.2489]

I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. I am simply saying that if the devs and staff feel better posting on Reddit, then these forums are pointless and we may as well, get rid of them, put the money they waste here on overhead into something more productive, like.. coffee.

[DarcShriek.5829]

@STIHL.2489 said:I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. I am simply saying that if the devs and staff feel better posting on Reddit, then these forums are pointless and we may as well, get rid of them, put the money they waste here on overhead into something more productive, like.. coffee.

But these threads aren't pointless. Many issues that players have brought up here have been solved in game. Anet does read these forums and many things that players ask for here do end up in the game. How can you say these forums are pointless?

[STIHL.2489]

@DarcShriek.5829 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. I am simply saying that if the devs and staff feel better posting on Reddit, then these forums are pointless and we may as well, get rid of them, put the money they waste here on overhead into something more productive, like.. coffee.

But these threads aren't pointless. Many issues that players have brought up here have been solved in game. Anet does read these forums and many things that players ask for here do end up in the game. How can you say these forums are pointless?

@STIHL.2489 said:I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. I am simply saying that

if the devs and staff feel better posting on Reddit

, then these forums are pointless and we may as well, get rid of them, put the money they waste here on overhead into something more productive, like.. coffee.

And haven't all the same probes been posted in both locations?

[Astralporing.1957]

@Vayne.8563 said:For the umpteenth time, devs are not required to answer your posts on their work time. They browse the web on their spare time. They're entitled to browse anywhere they like or anywhere they feel comfortable. Your options would be something like this:

A. Forbid devs from posting anyone but on the official forum.B. Forbid devs from posting at all.C. Make posting on the forums part of their job, which it's not.D. Make sure someone is making sure all the responses from other media do end up on forums eventually. Sure, that's not devs' responsibility. It's the jobof people responsible for the communicating with the community. And if there are no such people, theye definitely should be.

@Leo G.4501 said:You think the devs' preferences should not matter.Because they don't. I mean, it's okay to have different preferences on individual level, but on company level there should be a unified communication strategy. Even if a specific individual doesn't wont to post on official forums (and is not paid to do so), someone else should do so (and be paid for it).

[Vayne.8563]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:For the umpteenth time, devs are not required to answer your posts on their work time. They browse the web on their spare time. They're entitled to browse anywhere they like or anywhere they feel comfortable. Your options would be something like this:

A. Forbid devs from posting anyone but on the official forum.B. Forbid devs from posting at all.C. Make posting on the forums part of their job, which it's not.D. Make sure

someone

is making sure all the responses from other media do end up on forums eventually. Sure, that's not devs' responsibility. It's the jobof people responsible for the communicating with the community. And if there are no such people, theye definitely

should

be.

@Leo G.4501 said:You think the devs' preferences should not matter.Because they don't. I mean, it's okay to have different preferences on individual level, but on

company

level there should be a unified communication strategy. Even if a specific individual doesn't wont to post on official forums (and is not paid to do so), someone else

should

do so (and

be

paid for it).

For OFFICIAL communications, not for what guys do on their time off. They have rules they have to follow all the time, such as not revealing specific things, but to say that on a company level you should tell devs not to post on reddit is ludicrous. It's like saying we don't want devs to communicate with fans about stuff they can, unless they do it in a place they don't want to. Pointless exercise is pointless.

People should be happy devs are taking their own time to communicate when they don't have to, not complaining about where they're choosing to communicate. If the ultimate result of this type of complaint is we get less communication, how would that help anyone?

[Astralporing.1957]

@Vayne.8563 said:For OFFICIAL communications, not for what guys do on their time off. They have rules they have to follow all the time, such as not revealing specific things, but to say that on a company level you should tell devs not to post on reddit is ludicrous.

I haven't said that. I said, that while devs may answer in their own free time in any of the media they like, as long as it is something about the game (and especially if it's an answer to a question posed on game forums), someone (not necessarily that dev) should make sure that gets at least crossposted here. And if there's noone whose job is making sure of that, then they sure need to hire such a person.

We're not talking here about a group of individuals doing whatever they want. We're talking about a big company. In a mob of individual, independent people, it's normal for something (no matter how important) to not get done, because noone really wants to do it. In an organized group however, it si possible to assign someone to such tasks, to make sure they'll get done.

[Leo G.4501]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:For the umpteenth time, devs are not required to answer your posts on their work time. They browse the web on their spare time. They're entitled to browse anywhere they like or anywhere they feel comfortable. Your options would be something like this:

A. Forbid devs from posting anyone but on the official forum.B. Forbid devs from posting at all.C. Make posting on the forums part of their job, which it's not.D. Make sure

someone

is making sure all the responses from other media do end up on forums eventually. Sure, that's not devs' responsibility. It's the jobof people responsible for the communicating with the community. And if there are no such people, theye definitely

should

be.

@Leo G.4501 said:You think the devs' preferences should not matter.Because they don't. I mean, it's okay to have different preferences on individual level, but on

company

level there should be a unified communication strategy. Even if a specific individual doesn't wont to post on official forums (and is not paid to do so), someone else

should

do so (and

be

paid for it).

But apparently their preferences do matter or we wouldn't have this problem.

However, just like the wiki is updated by the community, I feel it is up to the community to bridge this gap of information because they have a vested interest in doing so, less so the devs.

Consider the era of gaming that didn't have wikis or the internet to bridge players together. The people making the game had more a vested interest keeping things secret from the player so they could discover things on their own. The only thing they had to tell the player was how the game worked. It was the players who facilitated the demand for information exchange, secret/ cheat codes, walkthroughs, etc. While the times have definitely changed, that fact (that the player community is the best bridge for info) has not changed.

[STIHL.2489]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:For the umpteenth time, devs are not required to answer your posts on their work time. They browse the web on their spare time. They're entitled to browse anywhere they like or anywhere they feel comfortable. Your options would be something like this:

A. Forbid devs from posting anyone but on the official forum.B. Forbid devs from posting at all.C. Make posting on the forums part of their job, which it's not.D. Make sure

someone

is making sure all the responses from other media do end up on forums eventually. Sure, that's not devs' responsibility. It's the jobof people responsible for the communicating with the community. And if there are no such people, theye definitely

should

be.

@Leo G.4501 said:You think the devs' preferences should not matter.Because they don't. I mean, it's okay to have different preferences on individual level, but on

company

level there should be a unified communication strategy. Even if a specific individual doesn't wont to post on official forums (and is not paid to do so), someone else

should

do so (and

be

paid for it).

But apparently their preferences do matter or we wouldn't have this problem.

If the Devs want to post n Reddit as opposed to here, because they think Reddit is better, then these forums are a waste of money and resources. They should shut them down and let the Devs just post on Reddit, from here on out.

It's that simple. If you don't like coffee.. working at Starbucks was bad carrier choice mistake.

[Leo G.4501]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:For the umpteenth time, devs are not required to answer your posts on their work time. They browse the web on their spare time. They're entitled to browse anywhere they like or anywhere they feel comfortable. Your options would be something like this:

A. Forbid devs from posting anyone but on the official forum.B. Forbid devs from posting at all.C. Make posting on the forums part of their job, which it's not.D. Make sure

someone

is making sure all the responses from other media do end up on forums eventually. Sure, that's not devs' responsibility. It's the jobof people responsible for the communicating with the community. And if there are no such people, theye definitely

should

be.

@Leo G.4501 said:You think the devs' preferences should not matter.Because they don't. I mean, it's okay to have different preferences on individual level, but on

company

level there should be a unified communication strategy. Even if a specific individual doesn't wont to post on official forums (and is not paid to do so), someone else

should

do so (and

be

paid for it).

But apparently their preferences do matter or we wouldn't have this problem.

If the Devs want to post n Reddit as opposed to here, because they think Reddit is better, then these forums are a waste of money and resources. They should shut them down and let the Devs just post on Reddit, from here on out.

It's that simple. If you don't like coffee.. working at Starbucks was bad carrier choice mistake.

I have no argument.

I feel these forums have their strengths and weakness just like Reddit has its strengths and weakness.

[STIHL.2489]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:For the umpteenth time, devs are not required to answer your posts on their work time. They browse the web on their spare time. They're entitled to browse anywhere they like or anywhere they feel comfortable. Your options would be something like this:

A. Forbid devs from posting anyone but on the official forum.B. Forbid devs from posting at all.C. Make posting on the forums part of their job, which it's not.D. Make sure

someone

is making sure all the responses from other media do end up on forums eventually. Sure, that's not devs' responsibility. It's the jobof people responsible for the communicating with the community. And if there are no such people, theye definitely

should

be.

@Leo G.4501 said:You think the devs' preferences should not matter.Because they don't. I mean, it's okay to have different preferences on individual level, but on

company

level there should be a unified communication strategy. Even if a specific individual doesn't wont to post on official forums (and is not paid to do so), someone else

should

do so (and

be

paid for it).

But apparently their preferences do matter or we wouldn't have this problem.

If the Devs want to post n Reddit as opposed to here, because they think Reddit is better, then these forums are a waste of money and resources. They should shut them down and let the Devs just post on Reddit, from here on out.

It's that simple. If you don't like coffee.. working at Starbucks was bad carrier choice mistake.

I have no argument.

I feel these forums have their strengths and weakness just like Reddit has its strengths and weakness.

Anyone's feels on the matter are irrelevant, The only reason for Exclusive Company sponsored Game forums to exist is serve as a bridge of communication between the players and game company's staff and development team . If they don't serve that purpose then they have no reason to exist.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Healix.5819 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Where are you getting your numbers from?

I cache the forums and reddit, so it's simple to lookup stats like that.

Here's

some graphs for example, from a few months ago.

That's extremely interesting. I'll take some time to absorb it; it's already changing how I'm thinking about the topic.Thanks for sharing it with us.

PS if you post in similar threads in the future, I'd love it if you could include a link. Regardless of people's opinion about whether ANet posts enough/not enough/too much on Reddit/etc, it's better to have actual facts to anchor the discussion.

[Zaklex.6308]

Technically the Devs don't have to post anywhere and answer anything since the official Anet policy is to not talk about anything until it's ready...in that case any posting by a Dev should be considered a bonus regardless of where that answer is posted.

[Gabbynot.2654]

the way i see it anet devs should post here only . making this really the official forums and not called the so called forums . if the devs wish to post on reddit honestly they should do it on their own time. and put more energy into this forums . other wise this is just what it is called the so called forums .