Why is mirage suddenly op?

[CharmedWitchery.1750]

Haven't actively played for about 2 months, been wvwing last couple of days and people are calling mirage broken. I was playing it at PoF launch and some time after, can't remember anyone saying build was op back then. I check every patch notes for mesmer changes, there were no significant buffs as far as I know. So what happened?

[HyperLooser.2698]

Scourge got nerfed, so now everyone found something else to curse at ;)

[rank eleven monk.9502]

Spellbreaker got nerfed which was a hard counter and everywhere in spvp. Also scourge got slight nerfs which meant mirage came up from 'second best' option to 'imbalanced'.

But it is too powerful right now, honestly.

[Despond.2174]

It was always strong but had 2 builds that kept the spotlight - they got taken back a bit and with no nerfs it now is in the spotlight. As someone stated, the best tanks, topping golem dps--read into this as you will--duelist gods and meta/strong for both pvp modes.

[tartarus.1082]

Well firstly mirage had a lot of bugs and mechanics that limited it's ability to be especially powerful. Like we had a staff ambush that couldn't even land.

Also scourge and spell breaker overshadowed most other specs in the meta. I think most pvp mesmers realized how strong mirage would be and that it was definitely the underdog spec for lack of a better term.

[Mikeskies.1536]

Mirage was always strong, but everyone complained about Spellbreaker and Scourge because they were the obvious cases. Mesmer has always been OP in PvP, whereas prior to POF both Warrior and Necromancer were not in a good place, so this probably also contributed to the core of complaints against Scourge and Spellbreaker. Scourge was toned down and Spellbreaker was (arguably) overnerfed, so now you have Mirage left unchecked.

[powerbits.6235]

Mirage dominates in wvw also, as a thief player a Mesmer can hit for 24k and take virtually no damage. if I do happen to get a backstab off, they just heal to full, go invuln, and enjoy 30 seconds of 5k hits for shatter Mesmer, 24k for sword. even Mesmer players are saying it needs a nerf

[Pyroatheist.9031]

@ToPNoP.2493 said:Mirage dominates in wvw also, as a thief player a Mesmer can hit for 24k and take virtually no damage. if I do happen to get a backstab off, they just heal to full, go invuln, and enjoy 30 seconds of 5k hits for shatter Mesmer, 24k for sword. even Mesmer players are saying it needs a nerf

24k sword. Seems legit. No exaggeration here, no siree. 100% accurate, factual, and unambiguous reality right here.

[Genesis.5169]

Mirage isn't OP we just returned back to the norm which is Mesmer bashing. With necro's out of the picture we got back to a rightful thrown as the Arbiter of Salt and Tears.

[Carighan.6758]

Because Scourge was nerfed so the remaining 24 sPvP players found something new to be enraged about. The 4chan of GW2, basically.

[Miroe.2054]

Imo there are 2 things deciding about a nerf

1. A PvP Meta shift that we all see
2. The actual numbers that Anet has

How does the PvP Meta look right now concerning Mirage?

[Exciton.8942]

I find mirage strong but not easy to play at all. I really don't think players will flock to play mirage like they do with spellbreaker or scourge.

The burst can be strong but requires heavy investment through dodge, multiple shatters and jaunt. If your burst gets negated, you are forced to disengage.

Mobility is nice with sword ambush. However, it costs endurance bars. So you mostly use it to run for open node. But the mobility is not that good when running into fight because you don't want to use all your dodges before even engaging enemy.

The build is also super squishy. It is not like chronomancer with tons of cleanse, heals and blocks. If you get hit, you lose tons of HP and can't recover. Sure mirage has longer dodges and good access to evade frames but the tolerance for error is quite low.

[Carighan.6758]

That's because for PvP purposes, Mirage is quite well-designed in that it has to "waste" the strongest defensive ability (Dodge) to achieve its burst-damage. Really neat design.

[MUDse.7623]

@ToPNoP.2493 said:Mirage dominates in wvw also, as a thief player a Mesmer can hit for 24k and take virtually no damage. if I do happen to get a backstab off, they just heal to full, go invuln, and enjoy 30 seconds of 5k hits for shatter Mesmer, 24k for sword. even Mesmer players are saying it needs a nerf

you cant just spamm interrupts against mirage, but unless you fail (no worries i do that myself from time to time) , you should allways kill the mirage in 1 on 1 as thief in WvW. power mirage can indeed oneshot you with a shatter, but depending on build you can oneshot them with backstab - gl to the mesmer to avoid that - avoiding the shatter is easier. if they are condi, they are basically free kill for you if you run shadow arts - this is build wars, at least as thief you can counter anything.

like 4 years ago i roamed exclusively on double sword + GS or staff mesmer for a while and i didnt like the torch.. so with now more mobility and target break skills i fellt like i can again play a mesmer with double swords and its was fun but when i had to fight too many 1 vs 3+ i saw myself switching back to my thief.dont know about condi mirage but i dont think they can better handle multiple opponents and that is what actually matters in roaming in WvW - for group play id say there are equal or better options out there.

so no mirage is not too op in WvW, but people in WvW cry about everything. scoruge is also not OP and deadeye also , but people cry about it. the only thing that i feel need tuning is enchantment collapse getting at least 1sec ICD. aside from that its all fine. but WvW players dont like changes - see DBL, so they want anet to 'fix' everything instead of adapting.

[Artaz.3819]

Condi got nerfed and Mirage's main weakness has always been sustain after condi was applied.

Burst DD thief can still kill Mirage similar to how burst Mirage can kill that glass thief. It's about even and both have options for similar disengage.

Because of that, a lot of thieves (in addition to Spellbreakers/Scourge) are also moving over to Mirage in WvW.

The main reason Mirage is slightly ahead of everything right now is all because of the craziness of Elusive Mind. No matter how bad you play, you can always react and survive most situations even if you have to run away. There is no counterplay to that GM trait. Internal cooldown required.

EDIT: Also in WvW, Soulbeast/Druid has seen a huge spike in players for good reason.

[Felipe.1807]

@CharmedWitchery.1750 said:Haven't actively played for about 2 months, been wvwing last couple of days and people are calling mirage broken. I was playing it at PoF launch and some time after, can't remember anyone saying build was op back then. I check every patch notes for mesmer changes, there were no significant buffs as far as I know. So what happened?

Mirage was allways strong, the thing is, Spellbreaker, Scourge and Firebrand were getting all the attention...spellbreaker got nerfed, and now players realize the potential of Mirage, on the words of Helseth, mirage is the worse cancer ever created by Anet, maybe second only to bunker chrono.

[Retsuko.2035]

I think mirage is actually balanced. It has always been meant to shine in skirmish situations or in 1v1's. Whereas in big fights, chronomancer is for many a more obvious choice now because of well bombing inside bubbles. Mirage doesnt bring anything for bigger fights.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

@"Felipe.1807" said:Mirage was allways strong, the thing is, Spellbreaker, Scourge and Firebrand were getting all the attention...spellbreaker got nerfed, and now players realize the potential of Mirage, on the words of Helseth, mirage is the worse cancer ever created by Anet, maybe second only to bunker chrono.

Also Helseth: "the buffs to mesmer scepter are literally insane and every group will be running multiple condie Mesmers."

Helseth is an extraordinary mesmer player and an extraordinarily bad mesmer theorycrafter. I wouldn't pay much attention to him.

[Asur.9178]

It was always excessively strong. Only bad players failed to realize this until the better ones started demonstrating how it should be played.

[Razor.6392]

Remember when 5-8 stacks on confusion was a lot in vanilla?

Well, Mirage can apply anywhere from 15 to 29, in 1 second.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

@Razor.6392 said:Remember when 5-8 stacks on confusion was a lot in vanilla?

Well, Mirage can apply anywhere from 15 to 29, in 1 second.

Remember when they reworked confusion and conditions as a whole multiple times?

Well they did. Shocker, I know, but the game is different than it was 5 years ago.

[Felipe.1807]

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@"Felipe.1807" said:Mirage was allways strong, the thing is, Spellbreaker, Scourge and Firebrand were getting all the attention...spellbreaker got nerfed, and now players realize the potential of Mirage, on the words of Helseth, mirage is the worse cancer ever created by Anet, maybe second only to bunker chrono.

Also Helseth: "the buffs to mesmer scepter are literally insane and every group will be running multiple condie Mesmers."

Helseth is an extraordinary mesmer player and an extraordinarily bad mesmer theorycrafter. I wouldn't pay much attention to him.

Might be true, but a guy who played on World Tournament and is know to be one of the best mesmers on game(if not the best) probably have a better insight on what is broken OP on mesmer or the game in general then most of us...i mean, you cant deny that Mirage have way to much damage, mobility and survival...the only thing that he lacks right now is the same impact that the master cancer Scourge can bring to a team fight, other then that, Mirage have the whole package...the fact that players were allready complaining about insta 20+ stacks of confusion and Anet buffed so now you can see 30+, clearly shows that they dont care about balance, probably trying to push more PoF sales to sPvP and WvW players.

[zealex.9410]

Mirage was busted from release pretty much but every flocked to scourge due to it being even stronger.

[Razor.6392]

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Remember when 5-8 stacks on confusion was a lot in vanilla?

Well, Mirage can apply anywhere from 15 to 29, in 1 second.

Remember when they reworked confusion and conditions as a whole multiple times?

Well they did. Shocker, I know, but the game is different than it was 5 years ago.

I forgot to mention their condi application has zero telegraphs. If you are near the mesmer, expect high confusion and torment stacks.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

@Razor.6392 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Remember when 5-8 stacks on confusion was a lot in vanilla?

Well, Mirage can apply anywhere from 15 to 29, in 1 second.

Remember when they reworked confusion and conditions as a whole multiple times?

Well they did. Shocker, I know, but the game is different than it was 5 years ago.

I forgot to mention their condi application has zero telegraphs. If you are near the mesmer, expect high confusion and torment stacks.

Yeah, aside from the shiny dodge, the big leap animation, the clones running towards you...

Honestly this is just a classic case of bad people being bad and thinking mesmer is op when really it's just disproportionately strong against bad players. Nothing new, it's been this way since launch and is why mesmer has only remained in the meta if Anet screws up and can't figure out how to nerf it effectively (i.e. bunker meta).