Why is mirage suddenly op?

Levetty.1279 · December 23, 2017

@Jinks.2057 said:
@tartarus.1082 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:Mirage is the most OP spec in the game. It is actually greater in power than scourge due to having no inherent weakness. Yes Scourge carries team fights, but they need a firebrand.
Mirage needs no one to carry a game besides him/herself.
As for people doubting what Helseth said that's pretty funny. Yes I agree the fella isn't the best theory crafter for mesmer since he said Mirage was going to be trash tier when Frostball (I think that's who it was), myself, and others were saying Mirage is going to be broken OP.
Turns out the later correct (as usual) and Helseth was again incorrect in his theory crafting, BUT once the power level of mirage was revealed his assessments is 100% accurate since he has played the spec.
Let me put in terms you understand. Most ppl here that reside on this forum hate thieves so i'll use that class to illustrate what Mirage is at this time.
Imagine a thief that retains all it's mobility & gains more elusiveness along with the abilty to 100-0 anyone class in the game with it's condi burst while being the absolute strongest 1v1 spec in the entire game that can also hold points for periods of time as well.
That spell it out for ya?
(Yes I know mirage isn't as fast as a Daredevil thief but it's the 2nd fastest class in the game)

Tbh though at the beta it was trash tier. It's only now considered op because of how much buffs and fixes the spec has received since launch, bringing out the real capability of the toolkit. I was actually running a spec similar to the carrion innep just with all the mid defensive traits and nightmare rune for the blind proc on jaunt. As the patches have continued and the glaring mechanical design flaws have been fixed the build has gradually gotten to its current status.

Basically, at the time I don't think helseth was wrong about mirage. He wasn't evaluating what it could be, but what it was at the time. In contrast, frostball was talking about the carrion burst build and claiming it had potential but the design was trash.

In all honesty though the spec is literally being carried by a single op trait and condi burst synergy. Design wise it's pretty trashy and lacks any coherent logic and rational behind the traits. I mean hey one of the traits literally just gives you protection after you dodge lol. In contrast if you look at SB, the spec is clearly motivated by lockdown and boonstrip capabilities.

Helseth was wrong.

Everyone who said Mirage was going to be broken said you need time to evaluate the spec. Y'all just wanted to shout it down and say it was trash tier. Y'all still try to maintain that stance saying other classes beat Mirage lol.

Mirage is OP and broken.

Mirage needs a heavy nerf

Mirage was trash in beta, everybody said so. Even reddit, that thinks base Mesmer is OP, thought Mirage was trash. The buffs since then have what made it stronger but even then its basically just a normal Mesmer with a decent condi weapon and a few new tricks. So yeah the dueling class is good at dueling. You are just proving what I say about this game is correct, the PvP players are worse at the game then the Guardian loot stick farmers in PvE.

Jinks.2057 · December 23, 2017

@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:Both the thief and the mesmer are low risk/high reward classes in straight up fighting that are easy to play since they have multiple tools to reset fights.

Mesmer takes extremely more skill than necro....even mirage takes more skill than scourge.

Necro is in the bottom of the "skill required" category. It's a beginner class

Try to roam solo as a necro and tell me how it goes compared to a thief or mesmer. :P

Try front lining in a zerg on a thief or mesmer

Here's a fun fact though

I've done all the above have you?

Pyroatheist.9031 · December 23, 2017

@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:Both the thief and the mesmer are low risk/high reward classes in straight up fighting that are easy to play since they have multiple tools to reset fights.

Mesmer takes extremely more skill than necro....even mirage takes more skill than scourge.

Necro is in the bottom of the "skill required" category. It's a beginner class

Try to roam solo as a necro and tell me how it goes compared to a thief or mesmer. :P

Try front lining in a zerg on a thief or mesmer

Here's a fun fact though

I've done all the above have you?

Weird comparison. Boon support chrono is a staple for most comped groups and is rather easy to play. Thief isn't difficult to frontline with, it just sucks, so nobody uses it.

Jinks.2057 · December 23, 2017

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:Both the thief and the mesmer are low risk/high reward classes in straight up fighting that are easy to play since they have multiple tools to reset fights.

Mesmer takes extremely more skill than necro....even mirage takes more skill than scourge.

Necro is in the bottom of the "skill required" category. It's a beginner class

Try to roam solo as a necro and tell me how it goes compared to a thief or mesmer. :P

Try front lining in a zerg on a thief or mesmer

Here's a fun fact though

I've done all the above have you?

Weird comparison. Boon support chrono is a staple for most comped groups and is rather easy to play. Thief isn't difficult to frontline with, it just sucks, so nobody uses it.

Actually no it holds merit since you don't run roaming builds on Mesmer on front line. Necro can solo roam and do it quite well. The only issue is it can't escape as well.

Pyroatheist.9031 · December 23, 2017

@Jinks.2057 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:Both the thief and the mesmer are low risk/high reward classes in straight up fighting that are easy to play since they have multiple tools to reset fights.

Mesmer takes extremely more skill than necro....even mirage takes more skill than scourge.

Necro is in the bottom of the "skill required" category. It's a beginner class

Try to roam solo as a necro and tell me how it goes compared to a thief or mesmer. :P

Try front lining in a zerg on a thief or mesmer

Here's a fun fact though

I've done all the above have you?

Weird comparison. Boon support chrono is a staple for most comped groups and is rather easy to play. Thief isn't difficult to frontline with, it just sucks, so nobody uses it.

Actually no it holds merit since you don't run roaming builds on Mesmer on front line. Necro can solo roam and do it quite well. The only issue is it can't escape as well.

I still fail to see your point. Are you saying that you've run roaming builds on thief and mesmer in the front line? If so, that's hardly worthy of praise. Congratulations for wasting a map slot that could have held someone that actually contributes to fights I guess?

AliamRationem.5172 · December 24, 2017

If they're going to nerf for PvP's sake they'd better either split the skills or keep any changes to EM and sword ambush. The PvE nerf/buff rollercoaster is getting old on mirage.

Jinks.2057 · December 24, 2017

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:Both the thief and the mesmer are low risk/high reward classes in straight up fighting that are easy to play since they have multiple tools to reset fights.

Mesmer takes extremely more skill than necro....even mirage takes more skill than scourge.

Necro is in the bottom of the "skill required" category. It's a beginner class

Try to roam solo as a necro and tell me how it goes compared to a thief or mesmer. :P

Try front lining in a zerg on a thief or mesmer

Here's a fun fact though

I've done all the above have you?

Weird comparison. Boon support chrono is a staple for most comped groups and is rather easy to play. Thief isn't difficult to frontline with, it just sucks, so nobody uses it.

Actually no it holds merit since you don't run roaming builds on Mesmer on front line. Necro can solo roam and do it quite well. The only issue is it can't escape as well.

I still fail to see your point. Are you saying that you've run roaming builds on thief and mesmer in the front line? If so, that's hardly worthy of praise. Congratulations for wasting a map slot that could have held someone that actually contributes to fights I guess?

Thank you for letting me know everything I need to know about you.

Btw, I contributed like a boss when I did it. You stay alive your damage is felt by the enemies.....really felt

Pyroatheist.9031 · December 24, 2017

@Jinks.2057 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:Both the thief and the mesmer are low risk/high reward classes in straight up fighting that are easy to play since they have multiple tools to reset fights.

Mesmer takes extremely more skill than necro....even mirage takes more skill than scourge.

Necro is in the bottom of the "skill required" category. It's a beginner class

Try to roam solo as a necro and tell me how it goes compared to a thief or mesmer. :P

Try front lining in a zerg on a thief or mesmer

Here's a fun fact though

I've done all the above have you?

Weird comparison. Boon support chrono is a staple for most comped groups and is rather easy to play. Thief isn't difficult to frontline with, it just sucks, so nobody uses it.

Actually no it holds merit since you don't run roaming builds on Mesmer on front line. Necro can solo roam and do it quite well. The only issue is it can't escape as well.

I still fail to see your point. Are you saying that you've run roaming builds on thief and mesmer in the front line? If so, that's hardly worthy of praise. Congratulations for wasting a map slot that could have held someone that actually contributes to fights I guess?

Thank you for letting me know everything I need to know about you.

Btw, I contributed like a boss when I did it. You stay alive your damage is felt by the enemies.....really felt

You know, there's a reason why Wvw guilds don't run a bunch of roaming builds. They don't work in the frontline. Shocker I know, but you do actually need different builds for different purposes. Use a roaming build for roaming; use a frontline build for frontlining. Yeah, I'm sure you managed to catch that one uncomped weaver off guard, but if you wouldn't contribute one bit to proper frontline capability.

Jinks.2057 · December 24, 2017

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:Both the thief and the mesmer are low risk/high reward classes in straight up fighting that are easy to play since they have multiple tools to reset fights.

Mesmer takes extremely more skill than necro....even mirage takes more skill than scourge.

Necro is in the bottom of the "skill required" category. It's a beginner class

Try to roam solo as a necro and tell me how it goes compared to a thief or mesmer. :P

Try front lining in a zerg on a thief or mesmer

Here's a fun fact though

I've done all the above have you?

Weird comparison. Boon support chrono is a staple for most comped groups and is rather easy to play. Thief isn't difficult to frontline with, it just sucks, so nobody uses it.

Actually no it holds merit since you don't run roaming builds on Mesmer on front line. Necro can solo roam and do it quite well. The only issue is it can't escape as well.

I still fail to see your point. Are you saying that you've run roaming builds on thief and mesmer in the front line? If so, that's hardly worthy of praise. Congratulations for wasting a map slot that could have held someone that actually contributes to fights I guess?

Thank you for letting me know everything I need to know about you.

Btw, I contributed like a boss when I did it. You stay alive your damage is felt by the enemies.....really felt

You know, there's a reason why Wvw guilds don't run a bunch of roaming builds. They don't work in the frontline. Shocker I know, but you do actually need different builds for different purposes. Use a roaming build for roaming; use a frontline build for frontlining. Yeah, I'm sure you managed to catch that one uncomped weaver off guard, but if you wouldn't contribute one bit to proper frontline capability.

Actually good WvW guilds did run roaming builds. How do you think "gank squads" got started?

Now that running a group is easy due to "boons for all" game play that HoT introduced you can run anything if you're good enough. I ran roaming builds in zergs when i did that b/c of that.

It was harder to run back in the day when you didn't have all the easy boon uptime

Bast.7253 · December 24, 2017

@MUDse.7623 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:Mirage dominates in wvw also, as a thief player a Mesmer can hit for 24k and take virtually no damage. if I do happen to get a backstab off, they just heal to full, go invuln, and enjoy 30 seconds of 5k hits for shatter Mesmer, 24k for sword. even Mesmer players are saying it needs a nerf

you cant just spamm interrupts against mirage, but unless you fail (no worries i do that myself from time to time) , you should allways kill the mirage in 1 on 1 as thief in WvW. power mirage can indeed oneshot you with a shatter, but depending on build you can oneshot them with backstab - gl to the mesmer to avoid that - avoiding the shatter is easier. if they are condi, they are basically free kill for you if you run shadow arts - this is build wars, at least as thief you can counter anything.

like 4 years ago i roamed exclusively on double sword + GS or staff mesmer for a while and i didnt like the torch.. so with now more mobility and target break skills i fellt like i can again play a mesmer with double swords and its was fun but when i had to fight too many 1 vs 3+ i saw myself switching back to my thief.dont know about condi mirage but i dont think they can better handle multiple opponents and that is what actually matters in roaming in WvW - for group play id say there are equal or better options out there.

so no mirage is not too op in WvW, but people in WvW cry about everything. scoruge is also not OP and deadeye also , but people cry about it. the only thing that i feel need tuning is enchantment collapse getting at least 1sec ICD. aside from that its all fine. but WvW players dont like changes - see DBL, so they want anet to 'fix' everything instead of adapting.

If you're going as a thief against a power shatter Mesmer, or really any Mesmer, I recommend a staff daredevil build. Staff 2 can instantly destroy clones so precast staff 2 and shadowstep you can pretty much destroy their clones instantly. Then maybe staff 4 for a blind or straight up vault to finish them. The only difficult part is getting them before they stealth and one shot you. Some just have a lot of practice and always kill you first. Some seem to have infinite stealth which I haven't quite figured out yet but I'm a bit out of practice on mine and am not particularly good at any of the professions.

powerbits.6235 · December 24, 2017

@"cptaylor.2670" said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@"ToPNoP.2493" said:Mirage dominates in wvw also, as a thief player a Mesmer can hit for 24k and take virtually no damage. if I do happen to get a backstab off, they just heal to full, go invuln, and enjoy 30 seconds of 5k hits for shatter Mesmer, 24k for sword. even Mesmer players are saying it needs a nerf

you cant just spamm interrupts against mirage, but unless you fail (no worries i do that myself from time to time) , you should allways kill the mirage in 1 on 1 as thief in WvW. power mirage can indeed oneshot you with a shatter, but depending on build you can oneshot them with backstab - gl to the mesmer to avoid that - avoiding the shatter is easier. if they are condi, they are basically free kill for you if you run shadow arts - this is build wars, at least as thief you can counter anything.

like 4 years ago i roamed exclusively on double sword + GS or staff mesmer for a while and i didnt like the torch.. so with now more mobility and target break skills i fellt like i can again play a mesmer with double swords and its was fun but when i had to fight too many 1 vs 3+ i saw myself switching back to my thief.dont know about condi mirage but i dont think they can better handle multiple opponents and that is what actually matters in roaming in WvW - for group play id say there are equal or better options out there.

so no mirage is not too op in WvW, but people in WvW cry about everything. scoruge is also not OP and deadeye also , but people cry about it. the only thing that i feel need tuning is enchantment collapse getting at least 1sec ICD. aside from that its all fine. but WvW players dont like changes - see DBL, so they want anet to 'fix' everything instead of adapting.

If you're going as a thief against a power shatter Mesmer, or really any Mesmer, I recommend a staff daredevil build. Staff 2 can instantly destroy clones so precast staff 2 and shadowstep you can pretty much destroy their clones instantly. Then maybe staff 4 for a blind or straight up vault to finish them. The only difficult part is getting them before they stealth and one shot you. Some just have a lot of practice and always kill you first. Some seem to have infinite stealth which I haven't quite figured out yet but I'm a bit out of practice on mine and am not particularly good at any of the professions.

For me, staff is not viable for so many classes. Most of my fights are initiated by me, and I am looking for lambs for the slaughter. I just don't let Mesmer kill me. It is build carry and nothing can convince me otherwise. POF accounts have an advantage, it's anets way of saying "buy pof." However, making specs god level is not the way to keep people like me, who play almost all of the classes, interested.

Pyroatheist.9031 · December 24, 2017

@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@"cptaylor.2670" said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:Mirage dominates in wvw also, as a thief player a Mesmer can hit for 24k and take virtually no damage. if I do happen to get a backstab off, they just heal to full, go invuln, and enjoy 30 seconds of 5k hits for shatter Mesmer, 24k for sword. even Mesmer players are saying it needs a nerf

you cant just spamm interrupts against mirage, but unless you fail (no worries i do that myself from time to time) , you should allways kill the mirage in 1 on 1 as thief in WvW. power mirage can indeed oneshot you with a shatter, but depending on build you can oneshot them with backstab - gl to the mesmer to avoid that - avoiding the shatter is easier. if they are condi, they are basically free kill for you if you run shadow arts - this is build wars, at least as thief you can counter anything.

like 4 years ago i roamed exclusively on double sword + GS or staff mesmer for a while and i didnt like the torch.. so with now more mobility and target break skills i fellt like i can again play a mesmer with double swords and its was fun but when i had to fight too many 1 vs 3+ i saw myself switching back to my thief.dont know about condi mirage but i dont think they can better handle multiple opponents and that is what actually matters in roaming in WvW - for group play id say there are equal or better options out there.

so no mirage is not too op in WvW, but people in WvW cry about everything. scoruge is also not OP and deadeye also , but people cry about it. the only thing that i feel need tuning is enchantment collapse getting at least 1sec ICD. aside from that its all fine. but WvW players dont like changes - see DBL, so they want anet to 'fix' everything instead of adapting.

If you're going as a thief against a power shatter Mesmer, or really any Mesmer, I recommend a staff daredevil build. Staff 2 can instantly destroy clones so precast staff 2 and shadowstep you can pretty much destroy their clones instantly. Then maybe staff 4 for a blind or straight up vault to finish them. The only difficult part is getting them before they stealth and one shot you. Some just have a lot of practice and always kill you first. Some seem to have infinite stealth which I haven't quite figured out yet but I'm a bit out of practice on mine and am not particularly good at any of the professions.

For me, staff is not viable for so many classes. Most of my fights are initiated by me, and I am looking for lambs for the slaughter. I just don't let Mesmer kill me. It is build carry and nothing can convince me otherwise. POF accounts have an advantage, it's anets way of saying "buy pof." However, making specs god level is not the way to keep people like me, who play almost all of the classes, interested. I pay every month, 20 or 40 bucks, to support this game. What I am not paying for is new players to be able to out perform me within earning a few ranks of world experience.

Staff is excellent in the VS mesmer match-up because it basically annihilates all illusions without you having to think about it. In the broader set of roaming capability though, it's often not the best choice as you say. If you've got the capability to do a hotswap before engaging after you identify an opponent though, it can make fights easier against mesmers.

Vylish.8571 · December 24, 2017

cause im playing it, duh.

Oozo.7856 · December 26, 2017

@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:Both the thief and the mesmer are low risk/high reward classes in straight up fighting that are easy to play since they have multiple tools to reset fights.

Mesmer takes extremely more skill than necro....even mirage takes more skill than scourge.

Necro is in the bottom of the "skill required" category. It's a beginner class

Try to roam solo as a necro and tell me how it goes compared to a thief or mesmer. :P

Try front lining in a zerg on a thief or mesmer

Here's a fun fact though

I've done all the above have you?

Well, I used to drive a 8-15 man zerg busting group on necro. Also, did small group and solo roaming on the necro as well. So, I know what soloing and leading a group are like, I would be the one to push through the enemy zerg (in the time when plaugueform was OP).

On my thief and mesmer, I play the fringe of larger fights when I'm not solo roaming. I will go deep to drop poison and spin on my thief or secure an invuln stomp on my mesmer but they should really be played as edge harassers in larger fights, IMO.

IMO, the mesmer and thief are far easier because that escape potential that you mentioned lets them recover from mistakes or errors in positioning. You make a mistake or have bad positioning on a necro you will die. There is a much larger margin for error when playing thief or mesmer.

FaboBabo.3581 · December 26, 2017

@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:Both the thief and the mesmer are low risk/high reward classes in straight up fighting that are easy to play since they have multiple tools to reset fights.

Mesmer takes extremely more skill than necro....even mirage takes more skill than scourge.

Necro is in the bottom of the "skill required" category. It's a beginner class

Try to roam solo as a necro and tell me how it goes compared to a thief or mesmer. :P

Sure compare two roamer specs with a team fight spec.Then say that those roamer specs are OP and easy, because they perform better in ROAMING then the team fight/zerg spec.

Dont compare apples and bananas.

FaboBabo.3581 · December 26, 2017

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:
@"cptaylor.2670" said:
@MUDse.7623 said:
@ToPNoP.2493 said:Mirage dominates in wvw also, as a thief player a Mesmer can hit for 24k and take virtually no damage. if I do happen to get a backstab off, they just heal to full, go invuln, and enjoy 30 seconds of 5k hits for shatter Mesmer, 24k for sword. even Mesmer players are saying it needs a nerf

you cant just spamm interrupts against mirage, but unless you fail (no worries i do that myself from time to time) , you should allways kill the mirage in 1 on 1 as thief in WvW. power mirage can indeed oneshot you with a shatter, but depending on build you can oneshot them with backstab - gl to the mesmer to avoid that - avoiding the shatter is easier. if they are condi, they are basically free kill for you if you run shadow arts - this is build wars, at least as thief you can counter anything.

like 4 years ago i roamed exclusively on double sword + GS or staff mesmer for a while and i didnt like the torch.. so with now more mobility and target break skills i fellt like i can again play a mesmer with double swords and its was fun but when i had to fight too many 1 vs 3+ i saw myself switching back to my thief.dont know about condi mirage but i dont think they can better handle multiple opponents and that is what actually matters in roaming in WvW - for group play id say there are equal or better options out there.

so no mirage is not too op in WvW, but people in WvW cry about everything. scoruge is also not OP and deadeye also , but people cry about it. the only thing that i feel need tuning is enchantment collapse getting at least 1sec ICD. aside from that its all fine. but WvW players dont like changes - see DBL, so they want anet to 'fix' everything instead of adapting.

If you're going as a thief against a power shatter Mesmer, or really any Mesmer, I recommend a staff daredevil build. Staff 2 can instantly destroy clones so precast staff 2 and shadowstep you can pretty much destroy their clones instantly. Then maybe staff 4 for a blind or straight up vault to finish them. The only difficult part is getting them before they stealth and one shot you. Some just have a lot of practice and always kill you first. Some seem to have infinite stealth which I haven't quite figured out yet but I'm a bit out of practice on mine and am not particularly good at any of the professions.

For me, staff is not viable for so many classes. Most of my fights are initiated by me, and I am looking for lambs for the slaughter. I just don't let Mesmer kill me. It is build carry and nothing can convince me otherwise. POF accounts have an advantage, it's anets way of saying "buy pof." However, making specs god level is not the way to keep people like me, who play almost all of the classes, interested. I pay every month, 20 or 40 bucks, to support this game. What I am not paying for is new players to be able to out perform me within earning a few ranks of world experience.

Staff is excellent in the VS mesmer match-up because it basically annihilates all illusions without you having to think about it. In the broader set of roaming capability though, it's often not the best choice as you say. If you've got the capability to do a hotswap before engaging after you identify an opponent though, it can make fights easier against mesmers.

As axe/sword mirage i feel like staff DD is one of the easy matchups.Staff 5 is easy to see and can be blocked with sword 4 , which will then create a clone for Instant meele shatter. Combined with jaunt and self deception even better.

Had this matchup a few Times, and it felt like it was all about dodging/blocking the big hits while staying mobile.

Of course this depends on the mes weapon set; so i'll advice any Hybrid or Power mesmer to try offhand sword.

Oozo.7856 · December 26, 2017

@FaboBabo.3581 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:Both the thief and the mesmer are low risk/high reward classes in straight up fighting that are easy to play since they have multiple tools to reset fights.

Mesmer takes extremely more skill than necro....even mirage takes more skill than scourge.

Necro is in the bottom of the "skill required" category. It's a beginner class

Try to roam solo as a necro and tell me how it goes compared to a thief or mesmer. :P

Sure compare two roamer specs with a team fight spec.Then say that those roamer specs are OP and easy, because they perform better in ROAMING then the team fight/zerg spec.

Dont compare apples and bananas.

Mesmer and thief have a role in team/zerg fights. You play the fringe of the fight and pick off soft targets.

FaboBabo.3581 · December 27, 2017

@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:Both the thief and the mesmer are low risk/high reward classes in straight up fighting that are easy to play since they have multiple tools to reset fights.

Mesmer takes extremely more skill than necro....even mirage takes more skill than scourge.

Necro is in the bottom of the "skill required" category. It's a beginner class

Try to roam solo as a necro and tell me how it goes compared to a thief or mesmer. :P

Try front lining in a zerg on a thief or mesmer

Here's a fun fact though

I've done all the above have you?

Well, I used to drive a 8-15 man zerg busting group on necro. Also, did small group and solo roaming on the necro as well. So, I know what soloing and leading a group are like, I would be the one to push through the enemy zerg (in the time when plaugueform was OP).

On my thief and mesmer, I play the fringe of larger fights when I'm not solo roaming. I will go deep to drop poison and spin on my thief or secure an invuln stomp on my mesmer but they should really be played as edge harassers in larger fights, IMO.

IMO, the mesmer and thief are far easier because that escape potential that you mentioned lets them recover from mistakes or errors in positioning. You make a mistake or have bad positioning on a necro you will die. There is a much larger margin for error when playing thief or mesmer.

Please dont forget core mechanics like shroud and compare base HP.

If a thief does a mistake and eats a 12k crit he's dead.

If a necro does a mistake and eats a 12k crit, not even shroud is down.

Odokuro.5049 · December 27, 2017

Mirage is suddenly OP because of all the bandwagon Scourge players coming over to the next imbalanced/OP spec because of the recent changes that changed Scourge from Godmode Condi to it's original purpose, and that was to be a support-style spec for Necromancers.

So because of all the bandwagon players, you have a explosion of new mesmers showing up and as we all know the squeeky chain gets the oil, so, sorry but Mirage will be on the receiving end of nerfs/changes soon enough.

CrashTheGrey.1492 · January 3, 2018

@Jinks.2057 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Pyroatheist.9031 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:
@Jinks.2057 said:
@Oozo.7856 said:Both the thief and the mesmer are low risk/high reward classes in straight up fighting that are easy to play since they have multiple tools to reset fights.