Shattered Observatory PUG issues

[MyLifeForAiur.7840]

Does anyone else struggle PUGing this fractal? I feel like this is the only one that i dread seeing pop up in the dailies because it requires your teammates to do stuff. Maybe I'm just too salty right now but I would seriously appreciate this fractal not showing up on the dailies as much.

[maxwelgm.4315]

I always have a good time with this one, mostly I take Druid though so it might seem better because I keep everyone up and strong.

Actually I never have problems with pugging fractals, in any way whatsoever, but I make it a point to purposefully avoid groups that ask for exp players, ask for players that won't mess up on LFG, and ask for players to not be bad and/or ask for titles (sometimes with much less manners than my example). I'm not saying there are no good players in this group, I'm actually willing to assume most speed clearers have their LFG's up like this. Thing is, speed clearing in any game is an art and it also involves great risk: the meta builds are worse than 5 trailblazer necros if players don't know what they are doing. And I doubt the speed clearer population is as large as LFG makes it seem (i.e lots of wannabes). So in order to make sure my 40 minute fractal run is always going to be a success, which is better than a 1 hour and a half of failed 15 min attempts of "speed clearing", I stick to down-to-earth players in my pugs. Specially in Shattered, it helps a lot to actually suggest people to slow down and focus on staying alive.

[zealex.9410]

@MyLifeForAiur.7840 said:Does anyone else struggle PUGing this fractal? I feel like this is the only one that i dread seeing pop up in the dailies because it requires your teammates to do stuff. Maybe I'm just too salty right now but I would seriously appreciate this fractal not showing up on the dailies as much.

Me and my 70 celestial or w/e is called kp dissagree.

[MyLifeForAiur.7840]

I've never had any trouble with any fractals pugging before. It's literally just the Viirastra parts that seem to go completely over my teammates heads. Nothing else about it is remotely hard but this one section is seriously knocking my enjoyment of this fractal way down.

[Edu.6984]

Having a druid and a chrono really helps. Also if the guy on the ball is bad it needs to be replaced.

[MyLifeForAiur.7840]

Maybe I'll just do the ball myself more often, thanks for the insight guys I think I just overreacted hard.

[Rennie.6750]

Yes, even more so when it's a daily during weekends, which is the absolute worst time to pug ever due to our lovely weekend warriors who lack practice. I've found a run today and they were at the last boss, so it was fine (mostly) as I was expecting to salvage it, there was a wipe and 2 of the dps didn't even know how the eye works, so of course that wasn't exactly trivial. I told them that they shouldn't do 100 if they didn't understand the mechanics in spite of being exposed to them many times, and got insults in return because i died at 0.1% when both of them have already been nicely contemplating ground patterns since the charr miniboss. Pug life.

I can understand a fuckup in stessful parts like purple goo + fallen platforms + a bomb at the same time, but the eye lol...

[Kundry.1249]

@"maxwelgm.4315" said:I always have a good time with this one, mostly I take Druid though so it might seem better because I keep everyone up and strong.

Actually I never have problems with pugging fractals, in any way whatsoever, but I make it a point to purposefully avoid groups that ask for exp players, ask for players that won't mess up on LFG, and ask for players to not be bad and/or ask for titles (sometimes with much less manners than my example). I'm not saying there are no good players in this group, I'm actually willing to assume most speed clearers have their LFG's up like this. Thing is, speed clearing in any game is an art and it also involves great risk: the meta builds are worse than 5 trailblazer necros if players don't know what they are doing. And I doubt the speed clearer population is as large as LFG makes it seem (i.e lots of wannabes). So in order to make sure my 40 minute fractal run is always going to be a success, which is better than a 1 hour and a half of failed 15 min attempts of "speed clearing", I stick to down-to-earth players in my pugs. Specially in Shattered, it helps a lot to actually suggest people to slow down and focus on staying alive.

I disagree. When my generic "T4 daily" pug fails at SO and I make a new group with "100 exp," the run is usually smooth. Also, meta builds are pretty good as a rule, not just in some niche scenarios of high skill level. Yesterday we had someone consistently mess up the skull (seemed like he didn't even know about the mechanic), once on Viirastra and twice on Arkk, we also messed up ball at least once, messed up solar blooms at least once, etc. but we still killed them just fine because our Druid was good and I was doing decent dps as a Staff Weaver, the ultimate squishy meta build, even though I'm a mediocre player. If I were running a Trailblazer necro not only would we have killed them slower, there would have been more opportunities for your bad teammates to mess up.

[Hesacon.8735]

I've never had a pug group fail this fractal or take more than one attempt at each boss. In the last month I don't think I've wiped once with a pug group, since by now most people understand the mechanics.

[maxwelgm.4315]

@Kundry.1249 said:

@"maxwelgm.4315" said:I always have a good time with this one, mostly I take Druid though so it might seem better because I keep everyone up and strong.

Actually I never have problems with pugging fractals, in any way whatsoever, but I make it a point to purposefully avoid groups that ask for exp players, ask for players that won't mess up on LFG, and ask for players to not be bad and/or ask for titles (sometimes with much less manners than my example). I'm not saying there are no good players in this group, I'm actually willing to assume most speed clearers have their LFG's up like this. Thing is, speed clearing in any game is an art and it also involves great risk: the meta builds are worse than 5 trailblazer necros if players don't know what they are doing. And I doubt the speed clearer population is as large as LFG makes it seem (i.e lots of wannabes). So in order to make sure my 40 minute fractal run is always going to be a success, which is better than a 1 hour and a half of failed 15 min attempts of "speed clearing", I stick to down-to-earth players in my pugs. Specially in Shattered, it helps a lot to actually suggest people to slow down and focus on staying alive.

I disagree. When my generic "T4 daily" pug fails at SO and I make a new group with "100 exp," the run is usually smooth. Also, meta builds are pretty good as a rule, not just in some niche scenarios of high skill level. Yesterday we had someone consistently mess up the skull (seemed like he didn't even know about the mechanic), once on Viirastra and twice on Arkk, we also messed up ball at least once, messed up solar blooms at least once, etc. but we still killed them just fine because our Druid was good and I was doing decent dps as a Staff Weaver, the ultimate squishy meta build, even though I'm a mediocre player. If I were running a Trailblazer necro not only would we have killed them slower, there would have been more opportunities for your bad teammates to mess up.

What does it mean for the first pug to have "failed"? You said it yourself there were mess ups in a run yet you all made it. Ultimately it is all about players sticking to the fractal until it ends. And in my personal experience it is usually the speedy meta wannabes that are first to leave at the first mistake from anyone; doesn't mean most "lfg exp" runs are not successful, actually I'm sure most fractal runs are successful, but the ones that aren't leave such a bitter taste that we are all moved by it enough to place whichever general LFG post we like the least in a "failures box" (in my case, I avoid runs absolutely requiring exp, in your case, you probably prefer them). OP of this thread is actually a good example, he's right that perhaps he was just frustrated at a couple bad runs while in reality the fractal has a high success rate.

As for meta builds being good as a rule, this is the least true actually for Ele and Mes. The actual rotations are not that easy to pull off during actual fights and most players fail to reach decent marks (i.e comparable to your usual T4 necro) on my meter. I'd wager what feels like a boss going down faster is just people paying attention to their rotation/mechanics and not noticing how much more damage they should be doing. Meta builds of course will feel very good when a Druid is present as well, and in a exp run there is bound to be one, yet (sometimes, not every time!) I would rather bring 4 trailblazer necros with my Druid rather than a Chrono, a War and 2 Weavers that mess up rotations.

I'd even go as far as saying that these players are doing a remarkably good job at pulling their own weight even if handicapping themselves on a build they can neither rotate correctly nor stay alive without support.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I have mixed feelings on this one myself. On the one hand, I hate it when 100 is the daily because the CM100 teams are going to be full of players who really don't belong there. On the other hand, I sort of like seeing a n00b come to realize the terrible fate of their existence. If I'm feeling particularly spiteful or bitter I'll stay with a bad group and just yell instructions at them the whole time. Just to hammer into them over and over again. To get them to realize that their ways do not work here. They cannot be lazy, they cannot be snowflakes, they cannot be incompetent, they cannot be unaware. They have to step up and do the work or they will fail forever.

A few days ago, Shattered Observatory was the rec for 75. I happened to end up on a group of 4 players who've never done it before. Much to my dismay, they refused to listen to my instructions. So, I responded in kind: I refused to catch Viirastra's ball for them. I was going to stay there and watch them fail over and over again, until they figured out that they needed to catch the ball. Aside from all the skull wipes and arc lightning deaths, it took maybe 10 consecutive times before one of these people finally realized "Hey, I should catch the ball". It was maybe 10 more times before they realized that they have to use the special action key to move themselves under the ball. Keep in mind, every time they failed, I would type out what to do in chat. Every single time.

[Turin.6921]

I would say about 50-50 good and bad pugs. But i would expect sth like that. It is supposed to be the toughest fractal, it is fairly new and it was full of bugs. Only recently did it begin to work as intended. So i do not think the community had enough time to learn it properly yet. I am sure it will get much better in time.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

This fractal annoys me for many reason, pugging only adds to negative experience.

[zealex.9410]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:This fractal annoys me for many reason, pugging only adds to negative experience.

Then do it with your friends. I thought pop problems only were a thing when you need to find 5 more for raids.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:This fractal annoys me for many reason, pugging only adds to negative experience.

Then do it with your friends. I thought pop problems only were a thing when you need to find 5 more for raids.

Sometimes we play together, sometimes don't. Thank you for your suggestion, you very helpful :)

[zealex.9410]

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:This fractal annoys me for many reason, pugging only adds to negative experience.

Then do it with your friends. I thought pop problems only were a thing when you need to find 5 more for raids.

Sometimes we play together, sometimes don't. Thank you for your suggestion, you very helpful :)

Its nothing. Just to help ppl have a more enjoyable time. :)

[Amineo.8951]

Doing that fractal at lvl100 with CM activated with pugs since Distortion nerf and the addition of the new ennemies which spawns when you're down makes me wanna shoot myself in the hands...

[zealex.9410]

@Amineo.8951 said:Doing that fractal at lvl100 with CM activated with pugs since Distortion nerf and the addition of the new ennemies which spawns when you're down makes me wanna shoot myself in the hands...

Not that distort made it that much easier.

[Hex.2579]

i usually do le ball on second boss. and i volunteer. cuz trust issue. lol. if i was lazy and let whomever do it. person failed, and then i'd be like... i could do it xDif you're talking about normal fractal and not CM, it's still somewhat scary to a lot of players. some don't even manage to finish it often. so they'd still need guidance, tips and tricks if you have any under your sleeve. that's my own experience for pugging on days that i didn't wanna do a CM. and it just made the whole run a whole lot better.

[Genesis.5169]

Depends on the time of day, on reset i always get competent people anytime after or before reset i have issues unless its a lnhb party.

[Kundry.1249]

@maxwelgm.4315 said:

@Kundry.1249 said:

@maxwelgm.4315 said:I always have a good time with this one, mostly I take Druid though so it might seem better because I keep everyone up and strong.

Actually I never have problems with pugging fractals, in any way whatsoever, but I make it a point to purposefully avoid groups that ask for exp players, ask for players that won't mess up on LFG, and ask for players to not be bad and/or ask for titles (sometimes with much less manners than my example). I'm not saying there are no good players in this group, I'm actually willing to assume most speed clearers have their LFG's up like this. Thing is, speed clearing in any game is an art and it also involves great risk: the meta builds are worse than 5 trailblazer necros if players don't know what they are doing. And I doubt the speed clearer population is as large as LFG makes it seem (i.e lots of wannabes). So in order to make sure my 40 minute fractal run is always going to be a success, which is better than a 1 hour and a half of failed 15 min attempts of "speed clearing", I stick to down-to-earth players in my pugs. Specially in Shattered, it helps a lot to actually suggest people to slow down and focus on staying alive.

I disagree. When my generic "T4 daily" pug fails at SO and I make a new group with "100 exp," the run is usually smooth. Also, meta builds are pretty good as a rule, not just in some niche scenarios of high skill level. Yesterday we had someone consistently mess up the skull (seemed like he didn't even know about the mechanic), once on Viirastra and twice on Arkk, we also messed up ball at least once, messed up solar blooms at least once, etc. but we still killed them just fine because our Druid was good and I was doing decent dps as a Staff Weaver, the ultimate squishy meta build, even though I'm a mediocre player. If I were running a Trailblazer necro not only would we have killed them slower, there would have been more opportunities for your bad teammates to mess up.

What does it mean for the first pug to have "failed"? You said it yourself there were mess ups in a run yet you all made it. Ultimately it is all about players sticking to the fractal until it ends. And in my personal experience it is usually the speedy meta wannabes that are first to leave at the first mistake from anyone; doesn't mean most "lfg exp" runs are not successful, actually I'm sure most fractal runs are successful, but the ones that aren't leave such a bitter taste that we are all moved by it enough to place whichever general LFG post we like the least in a "failures box" (in my case, I avoid runs absolutely requiring exp, in your case, you probably prefer them). OP of this thread is actually a good example, he's right that perhaps he was just frustrated at a couple bad runs while in reality the fractal has a high success rate.

As for meta builds being good as a rule, this is the least true actually for Ele and Mes. The actual rotations are not that easy to pull off during actual fights and most players fail to reach decent marks (i.e comparable to your usual T4 necro) on my meter. I'd wager what feels like a boss going down faster is just people paying attention to their rotation/mechanics and not noticing how much more damage they should be doing. Meta builds of course will feel very good when a Druid is present as well, and in a exp run there is bound to be one, yet (sometimes, not every time!) I would rather bring 4 trailblazer necros with my Druid rather than a Chrono, a War and 2 Weavers that mess up rotations.

I'd even go as far as saying that these players are doing a remarkably good job at pulling their own weight even if handicapping themselves on a build they can neither rotate correctly nor stay alive without support.

By "fail" I meant something like: we wipe multiple times, not due to minor mistakes but because at least one person doesn't know what he's doing, and somebody leaves or "dc"s.

And about the run I mentioned, we didn't make it because we stuck around in spite of wipes, rather, we killed the boss without wiping in spite of the mistakes, partly thanks to running meta builds. If people are messing up mechanics, a trailblazer necro surviving on his own isn't going to help; on the other hand, a meta weaver can nuke the boss faster and reduce room for more mistakes.

Chrono isn't really hard to play (distortion got nerfed, and it never really mattered in pugs anyway), it's just more responsible for the group, and Weaver, while having a very high skill ceiling, doesn't need some special mythical skills to be played at a decent level, at least for T4 pugs. Of course there's more potential in Weaver to be really really bad but I've yet to come across an atrocious Weaver (seems like the playerbase kind of self-selects here), though there are plenty of mediocre ones. And a mediocre Weaver will still do way more damage than a mediocre trailblazer necro.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Amineo.8951 said:Doing that fractal at lvl100 with CM activated with pugs since Distortion nerf and the addition of the new ennemies which spawns when you're down makes me wanna shoot myself in the hands...

This is a proof that distortion nerf was great idea. People who care about hard content should always lobby for such changes to remove cheesy tactics from the game :)