Ascension and the Underworld

[Athrenn.9468]

So, with the Hall of Chains raid taking place in the Underworld, it's obviously possible for any mortal to enter the divine realms without having Ascended, achieved Weh no Su, or even been born a human. In GW1, Prophecies characters needed to be Ascended, Factions characters needed to be Weh no Su, and Nightfall characters only needed to complete a quest called "Hunted!" (which had nothing to do with Ascension, just establishing a Sunspear base after the disastrous loss of their leader at Gandara). Does anyone have any theories for why things are different now? One possibility is that the Underworld only opened to us because Desmina needed a group of mortal heroes to do battle with Dhuum. Without her, the way would have been closed to us until we've Ascended... But then I wonder if Ascension ever really mattered if the requirement could be waived by a servant of the Gods whenever they wished. Was it just some arbitrary test that they put into place to restrict access to their realm, like some sort of divine passport or work visa? Maybe using the Oracle of the Mists and the Forgotten as immigration officers in charge of deciding which mortals should be allowed into their realms?

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

Since the gods were packing up for a big move and most of them already left, they don't seem to care if anyone comes into their house and look around. Just look at Kormir's library. As soon as she's gone, the place was trashed and inhabited by shadow creatures. No Ascension required.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@Athrenn.9468 said:But then I wonder if Ascension ever really mattered if the requirement could be waived by a servant of the Gods whenever they wished. Was it just some arbitrary test that they put into place to restrict access to their realm, like some sort of divine passport or work visa? Maybe using the Oracle of the Mists and the Forgotten as immigration officers in charge of deciding which mortals should be allowed into their realms?

I think that's more or less it, but I wouldn't call the testing arbitrary. We don't get invited to the cozy happily-ever-after afterlives, only the ones where we're faced with the hordes of dark god-level entities. Ascension and Weh no Su are associated with being Chosen, which in turn is associated with particularly high magical potential, so it makes sense that they'd restrict access to the mortals who could actually survive the experience. For the matter, the tests are a pretty decent way to make sure it's not just potential, that the would-be heroes actually are skilled enough to have a shot at surviving the challenges ahead.

[Athrenn.9468]

Hmmm, right. And then after "Hunted!" it's basically implied that we're big strong Sunspears caught up in the fight against Abaddon's baddies so you could squeeze them into your logic. Because at that point, you've seen the giant demon puppy and there are Margonites everywhere.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Ascension being needed for access to the Underworld and Fissure of Woe elite missions was just a mechanical restriction, one that ArenaNet had outright stated they began to regret making when they got to designing Nightfall due to the "how many ways can you write in a variation of Ascension into the plot" situation, hence why Hunted! quest didn't have any lore relation to Ascension.

You similarly never needed to be Ascended to access the Hall of Heroes via PvP.

It might have held intended lore purpose for Prophecies, but that pretty much went away with Factions, and doubled-down disappeared with Nightfall.

[Athrenn.9468]

Well, Heroes Ascent could have been one of Odran's portals and we all know how he liked getting places nobody wanted him to be. I just assumed that his portals were special somehow in that they weren't created by the Gods so travel through them was outside their domain. That part never bothered me or stood out as strange.

I can see why Ascension might be seen as an unnecessary limitation, so that's fair enough for them to want to remove it.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

If "portals not created by the gods" were enough reason, then there's nothing odd about the Hall of Chains given that such means it's merely gatekeeper's preference, and with Desmina opening the portal it would be her preference of who to let in or not - and by the sounds of it, anyone could wander in, if they were strong enough to fight through Dhuum's forces.