What gives Joko his extraordinary power?

[Glenstorm.4059]

I'm curious about how in the heck Joko is able to perform such awesome necromancy that he can keep multiple (presumably powerful) Primeval kings, any number of rebellious Sunspears and great heroes like [spoilerS] Koss, not to mention thousands of undead troops, not only under his control for centuries, but also in pretty well-preserved states for undead beings (like with Koss.)

Moreover, in the first game, it is made clear that he cannot be destroyed. Kormir says: ""Palawa Joko, the scourge of Vabbi was defeated in the battle of Jahai by Turai Ossa. But that was not the end of his story. It seems he could not be killed. After the battle, it is said members of Turai Ossa's elite guard formed the Order of Whispers. These great hunters broke Joko's body and used powerful magic to bind him within a great tomb."

This is highly unusual, because up until that moment and even since then, every single undead being in the Guild Wars universe (including the Lich Khilbron of Prophecies himself) was able to be destroyed permanently. What makes Joko so unique and hard to destroy?

Some clues about Joko's abilities are provided to us by the Scourge Akesi Xuni, who describes him as "uniquely powerful" and essentially the founder of the Scourge specialization. While she does state that Scourges have gone on to refine and further develop Joko's ideas, it can be assumed that his power has to do with using and manipulating shades, as opposed to life force, which core Necromancers and Reapers use.

The first game also hints at ways to limit Joko's power: When the centaur Dirah Traptail and his band capture the fleeing Joko, he says: "But it seems being buried and bound for so long has cost him all his power." So it seems like being sealed away for a long period of time can cause Joko to lose his power temporarily. Indeed, Joko even gives you quests to help him subdue his rebellious undead. Yet, in GW2, even being trapped in a different dimension altogether doesn't break his control over the Awakened. So what's changed?

I'd love to hear your theories :)

[Kain Francois.4328]

A Lich in GW lore is simply a Necromancer who cannot die, with the ability to control undead. A lot of what we know about liches come from Vizier Khilbron himself, including the fact that a Lich is not invincible if you drain their magic with a bloodstone.

Palawa Joko is simply a lich, and nothing more. He cannot be defeated through physical means. That's all there is to him. Everything else about Joko is simply being a master politician..

We don't know how Joko became a Lich, but it's nothing new in Tyria. While they cannot die, they can be physically subdued, and they do experience pain.

We can presume the reason Palawa Joko was never killed is because the Order of Whispers didn't know about the Bloodstones, since they are a Tyria/White Mantle thing.

[Fluffball.8307]

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Everything else about Joko is simply being a master politician.

Master politician is a very odd way of describing a totalitarian dictator with a magically submissive army, but I suppose it's technically correct? You could possibly argue it's correct?

They disagree = kill them and turn them into a servant that is almost not capable of disobeying.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Glenstorm.4059 said:This is highly unusual, because up until that moment and even since then, every single undead being in the Guild Wars universe (including the Lich Khilbron of Prophecies himself) was able to be destroyed permanently. What makes Joko so unique and hard to destroy?

Actually, Khilbron needed very unique methods to kill him. Khilbron was, like Joko, unkillable. Only by slaying him atop of a Bloodstone were we able to put him down permanently. Originally, mechanics had it where if you didn't kill Khilbron on the bloodstone then he would just resurrect (this was eventually changed, it seems, to be a random 1 to 3 times respawning).

Similarly, The Hunter could not be killed at all due to magic Khilbron infused into it.

@Glenstorm.4059 said:Yet, in GW2, even being trapped in a different dimension altogether doesn't break his control over the Awakened. So what's changed?

There was an NPC I say, forgot where though but I want to say in Vabbi, which stated that Joko's method of creating and controlling Awakened changed after his initial fall. That he changed his methology of control - likely due to those rebel Awakened met in GW1.

As for his lack of losing power from imprisonment this time around - we're talking 200 years of imprisonment versus less than 1.

[Glenstorm.4059]

Thank you all for your responses so far :)

I totally forgot about needing to kill the Lich on the Bloodstone...I guess that means that similar extraordinary measures will have to be taken to end Joko once and for all.

I would love for the lore to delve deeper into what makes Lich necromancy so much more powerful than mortal necromancy. Also, it would be funny if Joko meets his end by becoming the minion of a more powerful but benevolent necromancer (Marjory?)

[Torolan.5816]

It would be a very fitting punishment for Joko to serve, but I guess the power gap between him and someone like Marjory is vast. Maybe Aurene, but I would not approve of seeing his complaining and lingering form over and over again at her side.

I see him akin to Vecna from he Forgotten Realms or Strahd from Barovia.The physical form of Vecna has been killed by his own lieutnant Kaz with a sword that was forged by Vecna himself, leaving only two artifacts behind. You can argue if he is really destroyed, but his dreams of total domination surely came to an end.Strahd is basically undying because he is always reformed by the whole plane of Ravenloft, but he can be truly killed through the monumental task of letting it fully sink in to him that he wil never be allowed to own Tatyana, his lost love.

I am pretty sure that there is also a surefire method to kill Joko, and that it won´t be the bloodstone thing. Unique man, unique method.

[Oglaf.1074]

"Lich Necromancy" is typically much more powerful than "Mortal Necromancy" due to only really powerful Necromancers undergoing the process to become one.

So it isn't exactly inherently more powerful, only that individuals need to be extraordinary Necromancers to be able to do it to begin with.

I don't know the specifics of Liches in Guild Wars, but traditionally a Lich is a once-mortal Necromancer who unlocked the ability to turn themselves undead without losing their personality and powers while doing so (i.e not just become a shambling zombie). This involves binding their soul/essence to something called a Phylactery.

In Dungeons and Dragons, for example, a Lich is immortal unless you destroy the Phylactery (which will end them once and for all). Destroying their physical, undead body only temporarily sets them back.

EDIT: Of course, with immortality comes experience. Most liches are ancient beings and have had a long time to study Necromancer after becoming a lich - which also accounts for them being much, much more powerful than mere mortal Necromancers.

[Glenstorm.4059]

Thank you for that explanation of phylacteries! It makes sense, and they even exist in the game. I think we can assume that Khilbron's phylactery is devoid of his soul, if not his lingering power (which is presumably what makes it useful as an accessory.) The Palawan phylacteries are more interesting, since champion/legendary Awakened drop them...why would they be wearing them if they're not liches themselves? Maybe theirs are just empty ones that Joko entrusts to his more powerful minions, to use in a pinch if needed...

[Oglaf.1074]

Maybe lichdom in Guild Wars exists on a scale and he gifts more useful/loyal/powerful minions with a lesser form of it? I'm sure that a super-powerful lich like Joko could help others undergo the process as well.

It DOES seem kinda counter-intuitive to carry your Phylactery with you though, doesn't it? The whole idea is to hide it away someplace safe!

[Narcemus.1348]

There was never any mention of a Phylactery being used to create a Lich in Guild Wars 1. Liches were all made, or their background was unknown. The Lich Lord was assumed to be a result of the scroll used to create the Cataclysm, and Fendi Nin was created by a dark pact (he was basically cursed). Both Zoldark and Palawa Joko are unknown origins, though. In no situation, thus far, was the finding of a Phylacerty necessary for the killing of a Lich.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Glenstorm.4059" said:Thank you for that explanation of phylacteries! It makes sense, and they even exist in the game. I think we can assume that Khilbron's phylactery is devoid of his soul, if not his lingering power (which is presumably what makes it useful as an accessory.) The Palawan phylacteries are more interesting, since champion/legendary Awakened drop them...why would they be wearing them if they're not liches themselves? Maybe theirs are just empty ones that Joko entrusts to his more powerful minions, to use in a pinch if needed...

I'm doubtful that "Khilbron's Phylactery" has any lore significance. It's never, ever mentioned in story. It was a novelty item created with other ascended items that hold ties to lore figures but themselves seem irrelevant to lore. If this is meant to have any actual lore standing then it'd fall into the same line as Palawan Phylacteries, and the Palawan Phylacteries seem to be of an entirely different matter than traditional D&D lore, given that they drop from standard undead who are killed normally. They only come back if a powerful necromancer capable of creating Awakened re-Awaken them. Similar to how Dragon Age has phylacteries which are vials of blood belonging to a specific magic so that the Templars can track said mages should they go rogue; there's no relation to lichiness there.

On top of that, while Khilbron was unkillable by normal means, the way of killing him was by tearing his soul out of his body. If that phylactery held the same purpose as in D&D, that would not have been possible since his body would be a soulless puppet of sorts.

Further, The Hunter (mentioned above), is a shiro'ken, which are literally enslaved souls housed in constructs, which has been given lich-like immortality.

Suffice it to say, phylacteries have never existed in storytelling. They only exist as two flavor items of minimal importance.

@"Narcemus.1348" said:There was never any mention of a Phylactery being used to create a Lich in Guild Wars 1. Liches were all made, or their background was unknown. The Lich Lord was assumed to be a result of the scroll used to create the Cataclysm, and Fendi Nin was created by a dark pact (he was basically cursed). Both Zoldark and Palawa Joko are unknown origins, though. In no situation, thus far, was the finding of a Phylacerty necessary for the killing of a Lich.

To expand, a list of known liches, origins, phylacteries, and death. In order of encountering them:

• Khilbron - possibly turned into lich by Cataclysm, possibly before hand given Fendi Nin origins - phylactery in ascended ring no story significance - unkillable except by ripping his soul out of his body atop of a bloodstone.
• Dragon Liches - unknown origin - no phylactery known - killed pretty easily
• Palawa Joko - unknown origin - no known phylactery - unkillable (so far)
• The Hunter - given lich powers by Khilbron - no known phylactery - unkillable
• Fendi Nin - given lich-like powers by Orrian vizier (possibly Khilbron possibly Khilbron's predecessor) - no known phylactery - destroyed soul after forcing its separation from body
• Zoldark the Unholy - unknown origin - no known phylactery - killed pretty easily, but he created unkillable minions
• Mazdak the Accursed - raised to lichdom by Zhaitan - no known phylactery - killed specifically by Caladbolg.
• Risen Lich - raised to lichdom by Zhaitan - no known phylactery - killed pretty easily

So far, we kind of see three "lichs". Some were just powerful undead necromancers (dragon liches, Mazdak(?), risen liches); one is a rather unique case of "not immortal himself but made immortal minions" (Zoldark), two cases of "rip soul from body" (Khilbron and Fendi Nin), and two cases of "not yet killed but otherwise unkillable" which may be the same as the "rip soul from body" group.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

Looking at the liches @Konig Des Todes.2086 mentioned I would categorize liches into 3 types of origin.

1. Turned into a minion / lich by a powerful nectomancer (for example Zhaitan)
2. Natural occurring undead
3. Powerful necromancers who turned themselves into liches

I would bet that Wesir Khilbron and Palawa Joko both belong to the third category. Their history shows interesting similarities that could hint at how they turned themselves into liches. While most of this is unconfirmed, I think its an interesting theory.

1. Khilbron was a powerful necromancer in life. We can assume that the same was true for Joko.
2. Khilbron used the Scepter of Orr to turn himself into a lich. A similar artifact, the Scepter of the Mists, was found in the crystal desert and could have aided Joko's transformation into a lich.
3. Both transformations required a huge amount of human sacrifices. For Khilbron it was the sinking of Orr, for Joko it was the scarab plague.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

I just can't take Joko seriously... and that's no Joke because of this in my country:

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:Looking at the liches @Konig Des Todes.2086 mentioned I would categorize liches into 3 types of origin.

1. Turned into a minion / lich by a powerful nectomancer (for example Zhaitan)
2. Natural occurring undead
3. Powerful necromancers who turned themselves into liches

There is no naturally occurring undead.

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:I would bet that Wesir Khilbron and Palawa Joko both belong to the third category. Their history shows interesting similarities that could hint at how they turned themselves into liches. While most of this is unconfirmed, I think its an interesting theory.

1. Khilbron was a powerful necromancer in life. We can assume that the same was true for Joko.
2. Khilbron used the Scepter of Orr to turn himself into a lich. A similar artifact, the Scepter of the Mists, was found in the crystal desert and could have aided Joko's transformation into a lich.
3. Both transformations required a huge amount of human sacrifices. For Khilbron it was the sinking of Orr, for Joko it was the scarab plague.

Khilbron did not have access to the Scepter of Orr until post-lichdom. He did not use the Scepter of Orr to turn himself into a lich - this is the basis for the long theories of "lich livia" but they ultimately forget the simple fact that Khilbron became a lich before obtaining the Scepter of Orr. Unless he somehow had it, lost it, and in losing it, it somehow ended up in Krytan catacombs.

((EDIT: And I just remembered this shot from Arah story cinematic about the Cataclysm, so somehow he had it and then lost it and it showed up in Kryta crypts. Or just a massive lore oversight. Either way, there is still nothing that directly links the Scepter of Orr to undead let alone lichdom. Khilbron did make the claim, but he was already controlling the horde of undead. The most we see is that it controls souls, but souls and undead are pretty different, and even more different is lich-making.))

There's a pretty big gap in time between Joko's appearance and the Scarab Plague by 300 years. Do you really think Joko of all people would keep quiet all that time? Furthermore, it is heavily hinted that the source of the Scarab Plague was the Apocrphya - aka Abaddon's influence - and besides Nightfall allowing Joko to escape his prison, there's no solid tie between Joko and the fallen god. The closest hint is that Joko apparently had scriptures of Abaddon.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" If there are no naturally occurring undead, then who raised these guys in the pre-searing catacombs? Though the only naturally occurring undead in GW2 have been ghosts, so I guess in the last 200 years or so corpses stopped coming back to life. Or people learned their lesson and burn their dead nowadays instead of burying them. Also I'm not sure whether the Dragon Liches and other FoW undead were raised by someone or if they came to be naturally.

For Khilbron I made a mistake. He didn't use the Scepter of Orr, but the Lost Scrolls, which still shows some similarities to Joko's Scriptures of Abaddon. However he also had the Scepter of Orr, which got lost somehow during the cataclysm. I agree that there is nothing solid connecting Joko to the scarab plague, but I always had a feeling the two might be connected and it would be oh so fitting. The Scarab Plague was from 652 to 656 DR, which would be around 450 AE. The earliest mention of Joko is 757 AE when he builds his bone palace. By that time he has amassed considerable power and followers and is likely already undead since the sulfurous wastes are pretty unsuited for the living. Who knows what he did during the 300 years before that? Possibly raising an army. He claims to be a Primeval King and while that is likely another of his blatant lies I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him being alive during the last days of the Primeval Dynasty.

Another interesting similarity is that both somehow had ties to Abaddon.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:@"Konig Des Todes.2086" If there are no naturally occurring undead, then who raised these guys in the pre-searing catacombs?

It always seemed to me that it was these guys, who were necromancer students of Kasha Blackblood (oddly with an undead model) and later on they added these undead necromancers outright stated to be raising undead.

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:Or people learned their lesson and burn their dead nowadays instead of burying them. Also I'm not sure whether the Dragon Liches and other FoW undead were raised by someone or if they came to be naturally.

No, bodies are buried. Ghosts of Ascalon makes this pretty clear, and we even see modern cemetaries in Ebonhawke and DR with graves.

Unless they have tombstones for no reason.

As for the Skeletal Army in FoW, that's in The Mists and as Glenna says in Halls of Chains: things don't always 'make sense' in the Mists. These might be Mists-made beings that merely resemble undead (in that they were never living or dead to be "undead") just as much as they could be corpses possessed by restless fallen warriors. The Dragon Liches are the only group who seem affiliated with either Eternals or Shadow Army (in that they're affiliated with the later) so they may be an exception.

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:I agree that there is nothing solid connecting Joko to the scarab plague, but I always had a feeling the two might be connected and it would be oh so fitting. The Scarab Plague was from 652 to 656 DR, which would be around 450 AE. The earliest mention of Joko is 757 AE when he builds his bone palace. By that time he has amassed considerable power and followers and is likely already undead since the sulfurous wastes are pretty unsuited for the living. Who knows what he did during the 300 years before that? Possibly raising an army. He claims to be a Primeval King and while that is likely another of his blatant lies I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him being alive during the last days of the Primeval Dynasty.

Lore around Mad King Thorn suggests Joko might have been alive during Oswald Thorn's lifespan, however. And as Khilbron shows it's not hard to amass an undead army on the spot - you merely need a few graveyards to get started. And the Desolation offered many.

@BunjiKugashira.9754 said:Another interesting similarity is that both somehow had ties to Abaddon.

Very indirect ties in Joko's case. Those ties are no different than saying Turai Ossa had ties to Abaddon. There's zero relevance between the two, ultimately, besides some moldy old books talking about a fallen god.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 Joko couldn't have been alive during Mad King Thorns lifespan. As I said Joko built his bone palace in 757 AE. He was most likely undead at that point as the sulfurous wastes are not a place a sane living being would build a palace. King Oswald Thorn on the other hand died in 825 AE. We don't know the exact year of his birth, but it should be around 780 AE. So Joko was already undead before Thorn was even born. If Joko and Thorn knew each other in life, at best one of them was alive at that point, but not both.

As for Joko we know pretty much nothing about his life or unlife before building the bone palace. He might not have sought power immediately after becoming a Lich. There might even be an untold story of him being sealed in some crypt for 300 years. Records of that time are fragmented at best.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

The sulfurous wastes were spreading over a long period of time. We have multiple structures built in the Desolation both before and after the building of the Bone Palace. For example there is Morah and Sahlahja which predates the Bone Palace, and then there's Lannur built by Turai Ossa who passed through the Desolation from the Gate of Destolation (an act impossibly by GW1's timeframe). While a lot died in Turai's pilgrimage, the fact that many survived to reach the Crystal Desert shows that the Desolation was not fully impassible 200 years prior to GW1's timeframe. We can even walk over much of the sulfurous sands in Crystal Overlook in GW1.

It is also said that the toxicity has become less potent (though still dangerous) since Abaddon's death as well, so in time we may be looking at the Desolation no longer being impassible by GW3's proverbial timeframe.

Based on the description of Ruins of Morah, the sulfurous toxicity has been spreading from the Mouth of Torment and engulfed Morah 200 years after the Exodus, roughly. That, combined with how far it reached by nearly 1,100 years after the Exodus, can show the rate of spreading to those who wants to do the math. We would be able to roughly get the location of how far it had spread by 750 years after the Exodus too.

Brigadier General Kernel outright states that Joko and Thorn are "rival kings in life warring in undeath" outright telling us that Joko was alive while Thorn was. The only matter, of course, is that the Lunatic Court are not exactly reliable narrators all the time.

Also keep in mind that Palawa Joko had tamed the Junundu Wurms before, as this was how he originally moved his living subjects around the Desolation when he assaulted Vabbi and Kourna in 860 - and supposedly were the only beings before the GW1 PC to do so (though given his habit of lying to make himself look better, I'm doubtful of this) - which means he would have been able to cross the sulfurous sands even if he were alive. It is entirely possible that Joko had tamed the Junundu, used them to cross the sulfurous sands, then built his bone palace where his enemies could not reach, then became an undead lich himself.

[Zhaveh.6801]

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Everything else about Joko is simply being a master politician.

Master politician is a very odd way of describing a totalitarian dictator with a magically submissive army, but I suppose it's technically correct? You could possibly argue it's correct?

They disagree = kill them and turn them into a servant that is almost not capable of disobeying.

Thats exactly how politics works

[Feanor.2358]

@Zhaveh.6801 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Everything else about Joko is simply being a master politician.

Master politician is a very odd way of describing a totalitarian dictator with a magically submissive army, but I suppose it's technically correct? You could possibly argue it's correct?

They disagree = kill them and turn them into a servant that is almost not capable of disobeying.

Thats exactly how politics works

A master politician would know better than to overcompensate as blatantly as Joko for a lack of self confidence. Ridiculous statues, rewriting all history, renaming cities, all that. It's way too much, way too obvious, and way too amateurish. A master politician should be familiar enough with psychology to know how all that is going to look, smart enough to think about it in advance and wise enough to not do it. Joko is neither of that, hence he's no master. He's a clown.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Zhaveh.6801 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Everything else about Joko is simply being a master politician.

Master politician is a very odd way of describing a totalitarian dictator with a magically submissive army, but I suppose it's technically correct? You could possibly argue it's correct?

They disagree = kill them and turn them into a servant that is almost not capable of disobeying.

Thats exactly how politics works

A master politician would know better than to overcompensate as blatantly as Joko for a lack of self confidence. Ridiculous statues, rewriting all history, renaming cities, all that. It's way too much, way too obvious, and way too amateurish. A master politician should be familiar enough with psychology to know how all that is going to look, smart enough to think about it in advance and wise enough to not do it. Joko is neither of that, hence he's no master. He's a clown.

How it looks from the outside isn't Joko's concern, though. He's only concerned with how it looks from the inside, and he's had generations to steer that in a direction favorable to him. I know real life comparisons get tiresome, but I think Kim Jong-un is a good example here. From where we're sitting, through the cultural and media context our information is filtered through, he looks like a swaggering buffoon, but that is not remotely close to how the residents of North Korea see him. Which is he going to care about?

Which brings up another point. Joko's long game with Elona was to build up a dependency complex in it's citizens, and that required him to position himself as the source of everything good in their life. Yes, on the scale he's pulling it off on, it's absurd, and yes, the devs play that absurdity up for laughs... but the basic principle is terrifying. Think of it applied to a single individual, convincing them that they've accomplished nothing good on their own merits and that they thus owe their provider their obedience. It doesn't take much to think of a parent, or a spouse, or an employer, that you've at least heard of doing that crap. That's the kind of person Joko is. Yes, he has a massive ego, but he's used that ego to successfully victimize generations. That's not amateur, and that's not masterful politics, either. That's what a monster looks like when he's given unlimited power.

[Feanor.2358]

Oh I'm not arguing about him being a monster, or that his action can make sense in the long run. But neither makes him a master politician.

[Torolan.5816]

I have no doubt that Joko actually already accomplished something when he was alive. I am neither sure if he is of even noble birth or just the son of a common couple. The only way I can see him as primeval king is if he had been subjected to damnatio memoriae, else wise the ghosts of the kings and queens would not so vehemently deny that he is one of their own.

It would be funny if King Thorn had actually scored a win over Joko by making him jealous without much effort. Even today people love the mad King despite him being a monstrous figure and child murderer and nobody outside of Elona sees Joko as more as an undead, delusional tyrant. I can see him standing there in Paul Gascoigne fashion:"I am King Thorn! Who are you?"

[Chorne.8195]

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@Kain Francois.4328 said:Everything else about Joko is simply being a master politician.

Master politician is a very odd way of describing a totalitarian dictator with a magically submissive army, but I suppose it's technically correct? You could possibly argue it's correct?

They disagree = kill them and turn them into a servant that is almost not capable of disobeying.

Well, have you seen how he took over Elona in The Last Spearmarshal's writings? He helped the Sunspears and once the time was right, ruthlessly and efficiently stabbed them in the back. He planted uncertainty in the people of Elona in their Sunspears, slowly making it so they were distrusted and shunned. And then he made them disappear. First with things like disabling their more outspoken advocates, and then once the time was right, killing them all so they wouldn't pose a threat. He's an egotistical monster, but he's also a manipulative genius.

As for who he is...

I personally think in life he was highly educated, and therefore a noble of some sort, or he could be a poor peasant who got through on his smarts.He obviously was an extremely powerful necromancer in life. Learning how to use magic requires years of study. ( Or months of development in a pod if you're a Sylvari... ) He might have been a noble who learned at a school or was tutored, ( Like Cynn. ) If not, he was probably a very intelligent person with an aptitude for magic who somehow learned on his own through a lucky break, ( Like Eve. )And he's extremely egotistical and only out for himself. Being raised with servants at your beck and call would tend to create that trait. ( Or then again, it could just be a life of forced independence that caused him to have to worry about himself and himself only. ( Kind of like Eve. ) )

He definitely lived during the time of Primeval Kings, because their ghosts know exactly who he is and have very strong opinions about him. Ghosts tend to be oblivious to modern developments in general, much less so when they're in a giant tomb guarded by more powerful ghosts and a giant swath of dragon corrupted land promising death to any historians or tomb raiders. The fact that they're so adamant about him NOT being one of them makes one think that he must have been a threat of some sort during that time that they were not too happy about. Maybe he was beginning to rise to power? The Primeval Dynasty ended in 456 AE, so maybe he was born sometime in the 300's. That would place him at around 1030 or so years old.Then again, that could be plenty of time to change. Maybe in life he was a great person that went absolutely insane. Necromancers don't tend to be the most stable, normal and reasonable of people though. ( Not including Sylvari. )