GW2 PvP the perfect storm

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

https://imgur.com/a/Os7eN

Decided to try PvP again after apathetically quitting for a few days. What a mistake.

Low population + bad matchmaking + toxicity

Edit: context - dude started afking when we were losing 80 to 160.

[Jacobin.8509]

Its a flaw with the 10 minute capture point game mode. It usually becomes pretty clear who is going to win by minute 3-4 but you are still stuck in the match for another 5-6 which is when the hate starts to flow. Comebacks are very rare and most of the map objectives just snowball the match in favor of the winning team.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Jacobin.8509 said:Its a flaw with the 10 minute capture point game mode. It usually becomes pretty clear who is going to win by minute 3-4 but you are still stuck in the match for another 5-6 which is when the hate starts to flow. Comebacks are very rare and most of the map objectives just snowball the match in favor of the winning team.

He started afking when we were down 80 - 160. That is way too early to call match.

[Ashgar.3024]

@Jacobin.8509 said:Its a flaw with the 10 minute capture point game mode. It usually becomes pretty clear who is going to win by minute 3-4 but you are still stuck in the match for another 5-6 which is when the hate starts to flow. Comebacks are very rare and most of the map objectives just snowball the match in favor of the winning team.

I don't agree, i've seen and played many matches won with a comeback. Specially on maps with impactful side-objectives.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Jacobin.8509 said:Its a flaw with the 10 minute capture point game mode. It usually becomes pretty clear who is going to win by minute 3-4 but you are still stuck in the match for another 5-6 which is when the hate starts to flow. Comebacks are very rare and most of the map objectives just snowball the match in favor of the winning team.

comebacks are actually very common, but quiters will obviously impact this. The issue is attitude, if you only play to win then you are not going to have fun, if you play to enjoy your class and great fights then losing is less of an issue and you enjoy things more.

[Bladestrom.6425]

People should take a leaf out of the Eve Online book, in there defeat can be massively costly, BUT despite this people are happy to organise fights even when they know they may lose - because great fights are considered great content, they get what gaming is about.

[Jacobin.8509]

Coming back from a 200 point deficit in the first few minutes is exceedingly rare. No idea what game you guys are playing. +/- 50-100 is not really a comeback its a close match which is frequent. I am not saying every match is a blowout, but when it does happen the game mode makes it much worse.

[Shaogin.2679]

@Jacobin.8509 said:Coming back from a 200 point deficit in the first few minutes is exceedingly rare. No idea what game you guys are playing. +/- 50-100 is not really a comeback its a close match which is frequent. I am not saying every match is a blowout, but when it does happen the game mode makes it much worse.

Only rare when people give up. I've had plenty of 200 point comeback games, been on both sides of it. Happens a lot when one team starts off sloppy, then adjusts and adapts to each other and change their strategy. Even had one that looked like a guaranteed loss for us, then we started communicating better and improved our rotations, we won the game after going into overtime 513-508.

[Abazigal.3679]

@Jacobin.8509 said:Coming back from a 200 point deficit in the first few minutes is exceedingly rare. No idea what game you guys are playing. +/- 50-100 is not really a comeback its a close match which is frequent. I am not saying every match is a blowout, but when it does happen the game mode makes it much worse.

Actually not. Many players are playing very poorly lately, mostly abusing an OP build and not caring off points, even in platinum. Basically, if you have the average solo queue team, which is mid only or chase target, you will get rolled. But if you communicate to play on points, and have 1-2 players to busy the zerg, you can comeback on capture points in some matchs.

[Jacobin.8509]

Comebacks are the outliers. I am not disputing that they will happen like 1 in 10 times.

Regardless the snowbally nature of the game mode contributes to the anger that comes out in virtually every single losing match because you are stuck for ~5 minutes with a losing team.

If comebacks happen all the time, why do people get so angry when they are losing? In a solo queue format 'communication' can only go so far. More often than not your random team is just inferior to the other random team due to comp/synergy/early positioning/early fights and you just have to take the beating until the game ends.

[Shaogin.2679]

@Jacobin.8509 said:Comebacks are the outliers. I am not disputing that they will happen like 1 in 10 times.

Regardless the snowbally nature of the game mode contributes to the anger that comes out in virtually every single losing match because you are stuck for ~5 minutes with a losing team.

If comebacks happen all the time, why do people get so angry when they are losing? In a solo queue format 'communication' can only go so far. More often than not your random team is just inferior to the other random team due to comp/synergy/early positioning/early fights and you just have to take the beating until the game ends.

Comebacks happen all the time for teams that try. Depending on what division you play in, could be more rare. Comebacks being rare is more the fault of the players and their poor attitudes, not so much the fault of game mechanics.

[Nova.3817]

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:https://imgur.com/a/Os7eN

Decided to try PvP again after apathetically quitting for a few days. What a mistake.

Low population + bad matchmaking + toxicity

Edit: context - dude started afking when we were losing 80 to 160.

to avoid afkers you should just form a group of 5 frien......oh nvm this gw2 were talking about

[Ario.8964]

People get salty when they are losing because the people that actually cared about improving and developing their gameplay left. Most of the top players left so now everyone thinks that they're super good and make 0 mistakes so they get mad because it's all their team's fault. The salt comes in because people no longer seek to correct their mistakes and learn, they want to pugstomp to boost their egos because the only people left are egotistical baddies or 12 yr olds.

[Jacobin.8509]

@Shaogin.2679 said:

@Jacobin.8509 said:Comebacks are the outliers. I am not disputing that they will happen like 1 in 10 times.

Regardless the snowbally nature of the game mode contributes to the anger that comes out in virtually every single losing match because you are stuck for ~5 minutes with a losing team.

If comebacks happen all the time, why do people get so angry when they are losing? In a solo queue format 'communication' can only go so far. More often than not your random team is just inferior to the other random team due to comp/synergy/early positioning/early fights and you just have to take the beating until the game ends.

Comebacks happen all the time for teams that try. Depending on what division you play in, could be more rare. Comebacks being rare is more the fault of the players and their poor attitudes, not so much the fault of game mechanics.

Division is irrelevant because the rating variance in matchmaking is huge. If you are plat you will still get golds and silvers every game. This is part of why its so hard to climb rating - silvers face plats constantly.

'Team that try' is impossible to quantify. Most people report seeing constant hate which seems to be the the much more likely reality.

[Shaogin.2679]

@Jacobin.8509 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:

@Jacobin.8509 said:Comebacks are the outliers. I am not disputing that they will happen like 1 in 10 times.

Regardless the snowbally nature of the game mode contributes to the anger that comes out in virtually every single losing match because you are stuck for ~5 minutes with a losing team.

If comebacks happen all the time, why do people get so angry when they are losing? In a solo queue format 'communication' can only go so far. More often than not your random team is just inferior to the other random team due to comp/synergy/early positioning/early fights and you just have to take the beating until the game ends.

Comebacks happen all the time for teams that try. Depending on what division you play in, could be more rare. Comebacks being rare is more the fault of the players and their poor attitudes, not so much the fault of game mechanics.

Division is irrelevant because the rating variance in matchmaking is huge. If you are plat you will still get golds and silvers every game. This is part of why its so hard to climb rating - silvers face plats constantly.

'Team that try' is impossible to quantify. Most people report seeing constant hate which seems to be the the much more likely reality.

Sure you get silver and plats playing together depending on population (which is being adressed), but the other team is balanced the same way (so not really the reason it is hard to climb). I feel division still matters though because my matches in gold were nowhere near the quality of matches I get in plat.

And sure, it is way more common to get those players with poor attitudes (especially in silver and gold), but that doesn't change my statement. Comebacks can feel rare when you are playing with or when you are a person with a poor attitude. The game's mechanics are not preventing comebacks. This all goes back to the original point, you should not give up just because you are behind in a match. I you feel it is ok to give up simply because the other team has the lead, then you are part of the problem.

[Jacobin.8509]

@Shaogin.2679 said:Sure you get silver and plats playing together depending on population (which is being adressed), but the other team is balanced the same way (so not really the reason it is hard to climb).

This is false. High rank people duo and gamed the system which was only reduced last week. A duo of top 100 would still face a team of golds+silvers due to the MMR algorithm.

The problem is comparing anecdotes and 'coulds' / 'shoulds' vs the actual experience most players are reporting. If communication and 'try harding' did in fact have a high chance of overcoming a minute 3, 200 point deficit people would do it. To think game design mechanics has no influence at all on player attitudes is incredibly short sighted.

[Shaogin.2679]

@Jacobin.8509 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:Sure you get silver and plats playing together depending on population (which is being adressed),

but the other team is balanced the same way

(so not really the reason it is hard to climb).

This is false. High rank people duo and gamed the system which was only reduced last week. A duo of top 100 would still face a team of golds+silvers due to the MMR algorithm.

The problem is comparing anecdotes and 'coulds' / 'shoulds' vs the actual experience most players are reporting. If communication and 'try harding' did in fact have a high chance of overcoming a minute 3, 200 point deficit matches people would do it. To think game design mechanics has no influence at all on player attitudes is incredibly short sighted.

Actually your statement is false. High rank players haven't been able to duo queue all season. Unless you have proof that one team gets all low mmr players and the other team gets all high mmr players, I'm going to have to disagree with your complaints.

Also, you can blame game mechanics until you are blue in the face, but fact is, players that don't give up have plenty of comebacks despite game mechanics supposedly preventing it. It all comes down to the players attitudes, and blaming game mechanics is just typical of those type of players, always looking for someone or something to place the blame on.

Again, my point is, comebacks are very possible for those that do not give up, and players that think it is ok to give up just because they lost the lead are part of the problem.

[Jacobin.8509]

@Shaogin.2679 said:Again, my point is, comebacks are very possible for those that do not give up

And what is the % you would put on overcoming a minute 3, 200 point deficit for most random teams? I would guess ~10%. Attitude/optimisim will have little to no effect most of the time in the present pvp mode. Most people would rather just cut their losses move on to the next match. The whole don't throw good money after bad outlook.

[Shaogin.2679]

@Jacobin.8509 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:Again, my point is, comebacks are very possible for those that do not give up

And what is the % you would put on overcoming a minute 3, 200 point deficit for most random teams? I would guess ~10%. Attitude/optimisim will have little to no effect most of the time in the present pvp mode. Most people would rather just cut their losses move on to the next match.

All you keep saying is that the majority of PvP players have poor attitudes. Lol. That in no way contradicts my point. You just keep making excuses for why it is ok to just give up. Maybe I have more comeback matches than you because I am a positive player and that positivity rubs off on my team. I know for me, the more positivity I see on my team, the more encouraged I am to give it my all.

[Jacobin.8509]

And all you are saying is that comebacks are possible which nobody denies. The debate is around the frequency or probability and its effect on anger. I think the game mode makes comebacks less likely which increases the level of saltiness and hurts the user experience.

[Shaogin.2679]

@"Jacobin.8509" said:And all you are saying is that comebacks are possible which nobody denies. The debate is around the frequency or probability and its effect on anger. I think the game mode makes comebacks less likely which increases the level of saltiness and hurts the user experience.

But that isn't all I am saying. I have been stating that it is not the game mode making comebacks less likely, it is the players. That is the relevance in pointing out that the more positive players have these comebacks much more frequently than the players that have poor attitudes.

If you give up because the enemy team gained a large lead at the start, that is not the fault of the game at all. Saying "oh well, a comeback is impossible because of the snowball mechanics of this game" is just you making excuses and being a negative player. And the negativity spreads to teammates and just creates a poor mentality.

[Jacobin.8509]

@Shaogin.2679 said:oh well, a comeback is impossible

Again, nobody is saying this. If I look at the kill board and see my team is getting farmed, a rational conclusion is that a win is highly unlikely.

Sure pvp would be great if everyone could just always 'be positive' 100% of the time despite all odds like you claim to be but blaming the customer for not having blind optimism and not looking at ways to improve the user experience seems like pretty naive way to improve a product.

[Nilkemia.8507]

PvP, only good for the reward tracks.

[Shaogin.2679]

@Jacobin.8509 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:oh well, a comeback is

impossible

Again, nobody is saying this. If I look at the kill board and see my team is getting farmed, a rational conclusion is that a win is highly unlikely.

Sure pvp would be great if everyone could just always 'be positive' 100% of the time despite all odds like you claim to be but blaming the customer for not having blind optimism and not looking at ways to improve the user experience seems like pretty naive way to improve a product.

If a player gives up when the see they are losing (which happens plenty) then yes they are saying a comeback is impossible. I mean, you're not even in this discussion anymore. You're cherry picking clips of what I say, taking it out of context, and then rambling on about irrelevant nonsense. Hit me up if you ever get back on track buddy, brick wall convos bore me.

[Dawdler.8521]

The problem is the same thats been in all the seasons and something I am incredibly dissapointed about Anet not changing - good game losses give no points. Theres no incentive to fight, no incentive to try if you are getting ouplayed by the enemy. 100v500 loss or 450v500 loss, its all the same on your loss of point despite the fact the matchmaker clearly did its job in the later loss. But Anets score system just say kitten you, you could have given up 5 minutes ago and saved some time.