are players being fed?

[trunks.5249]

i do not know if it's just me but i will be in matches that are so one sides it feels like a major mismatch. this happens at least a couple times a day both ways. i am starting to think that sometimes we are playing people in higher or lower divisions. does anyone know if its true or not ? if so seems like a good way to get people to rage quit game permanently . i guess it could just be an accident but it happens to often

[Zintrothen.1056]

It's already known that the game matches people from different divisions into one team. A legendary rank player can actually be put into a game with gold players, or even lower if there are that few players online for the matchmaker to choose from.

[Shaogin.2679]

While players from different divisions can be matched together, they are usually split into two even teams according to Anet. From what I've seen in my matches, this is generally true, though there are some that will swear up and down that they are being set up with impossible matches.

Anet stated they plan on showing player mmr's after the match in the future, so that will really help people see what is going on. You also have to consider that team comps and the players' coordination with each other can cause blowouts in what should have been a balanced match.

To answer your question though, there is no proof that players are being thrown into matches where the enemy team's average mmr significantly outranks their own team's average mmr.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@"Shaogin.2679" said:While players from different divisions can be matched together, they are usually split into two even teams according to Anet. From what I've seen in my matches, this is generally true, though there are some that will swear up and down that they are being set up with impossible matches.

Anet stated they plan on showing player mmr's after the match in the future, so that will really help people see what is going on. You also have to consider that team comps and the players' coordination with each other can cause blowouts in what should have been a balanced match.

"Even" teams. Thing is it's matching the average MMR of the teams. But a guy with 1800 MMR if he's actually good enough might have the experience to beat 2-3 guys with 1350 MMR, that leaves 4 guys with 1200 MMR to fight 2-3 guys with 1350 MMR.Because those are the numbers we're potentially looking at:1800+4x1200 = 6600/5 = 1320

So yeah, imagine that "Legendary" is playing a Scourge, Bunker FB, or some other more potentially game deciding class and you'll see how well that turns out.

Sadly there's hardly much Anet can do to reverse this, because it's a matter of population, not numbers.

[Shaogin.2679]

Never said it was perfect, but your example is two even teams according to average mmr. That 1800 player will have a large impact, but he has to carry hard. It is up to the balanced team of 1350 players to identify the weak points and rotate properly.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Shaogin.2679 said:Never said it was perfect, but your example is two even teams according to average mmr. That 1800 player will have a large impact, but he has to carry hard. It is up to the balanced team of 1350 players to identify the weak points and rotate properly.

That requires proper communication, and in the side of tactics (imagining similar levels of communication and cooperation), who do you think would have the upper hand there as well? The team with the supposedly more experienced guy, or the other one?There will always be a big disadvantage. That's why other games (LoL comes to mind) don't allow even pre-mades with people 2 tiers below you, nevermind getting you matched with one.Again, it's nothing that can be fixed by Arena Net mechanically. The only way for this to work is to improve the population health of PvP. And they seem to struggle with that.

[Shaogin.2679]

Sure it requires communication, quick message while respawning and map pings is enough for that. Both teams have roughly the same chance really. The 1800 player has 4 teammates he can't rely on, and the 1350 team has one enemy giving them a tough time. Even in your team setup scenario, which is a rare extreme case scenario btw, neither team has a ridiculous advantage over the other.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Shaogin.2679 said:Sure it requires communication, quick message while respawning and map pings is enough for that. Both teams have roughly the same chance really. The 1800 player has 4 teammates he can't rely on, and the 1350 team has one enemy giving them a tough time. Even in your team setup scenario, which is a rare extreme case scenario btw, neither team has a ridiculous advantage over the other.

Why can't he rely on those players? I mean, you're assuming the low level players are window dressing and that all the 1350 players are actually quite good?

[Razor.6392]

surely im getting fed up of anet's abysmal balance, matchmaking, communication, delays between patches, etc. or more like ive already been fed up. just farming pips by now.

oh thats not what you mean?

[Shaogin.2679]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:Sure it requires communication, quick message while respawning and map pings is enough for that. Both teams have roughly the same chance really. The 1800 player has 4 teammates he can't rely on, and the 1350 team has one enemy giving them a tough time. Even in your team setup scenario, which is a rare extreme case scenario btw, neither team has a ridiculous advantage over the other.

Why can't he rely on those players? I mean, you're assuming the low level players are window dressing and that all the 1350 players are actually quite good?

The 1350 team should be able to easily handle the 1200 players, meaning the 1800 player needs to carry hard to pick up the slack since he can't simultaneously cover 3 points. I mean, if it was a team of 1350 players vs a team of 1200 players, people would complain this was unbalanced and the 1200 team had no chance. You think that changing one player suddenly makes the 1200 team god mode and now the 1350 team has no chance? Really?

I feel like you've gotten too caught up in the what-if details of your fantasy scenario here and aren't even focusing on the op's question anymore.

[Crinn.7864]

@Shaogin.2679 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:Sure it requires communication, quick message while respawning and map pings is enough for that. Both teams have roughly the same chance really. The 1800 player has 4 teammates he can't rely on, and the 1350 team has one enemy giving them a tough time. Even in your team setup scenario, which is a rare extreme case scenario btw, neither team has a ridiculous advantage over the other.

Why can't he rely on those players? I mean, you're assuming the low level players are window dressing and that all the 1350 players are actually quite good?

The 1350 team should be able to easily handle the 1200 players, meaning the 1800 player needs to carry hard to pick up the slack since he can't simultaneously cover 3 points. I mean, if it was a team of 1350 players vs a team of 1200 players, people would complain this was unbalanced and the 1200 team had no chance. You think that changing one player suddenly makes the 1200 team god mode and now the 1350 team has no chance? Really?

I feel like you've gotten too caught up in the what-if details of your fantasy scenario here and aren't even focusing on the op's question anymore.

The 1800 player can easily carry that though. Any node the 1800 player wants he can take, and the 1800 player presumably knows enough about rotations to know which nodes he wants.

Carrying isn't that hard in this game, it's fairly common for a top level player to troll 2-3 players at a time without any kind of backup. Granted this is somewhat class dependent as some classes are better carry classes than others.

[Shaogin.2679]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:Sure it requires communication, quick message while respawning and map pings is enough for that. Both teams have roughly the same chance really. The 1800 player has 4 teammates he can't rely on, and the 1350 team has one enemy giving them a tough time. Even in your team setup scenario, which is a rare extreme case scenario btw, neither team has a ridiculous advantage over the other.

Why can't he rely on those players? I mean, you're assuming the low level players are window dressing and that all the 1350 players are actually quite good?

The 1350 team should be able to easily handle the 1200 players, meaning the 1800 player needs to carry hard to pick up the slack since he can't simultaneously cover 3 points. I mean, if it was a team of 1350 players vs a team of 1200 players, people would complain this was unbalanced and the 1200 team had no chance. You think that changing one player suddenly makes the 1200 team god mode and now the 1350 team has no chance? Really?

I feel like you've gotten too caught up in the what-if details of your fantasy scenario here and aren't even focusing on the op's question anymore.

The 1800 player can easily carry that though. Any node the 1800 player wants he can take, and the 1800 player presumably knows enough about rotations to know which nodes he wants.

Carrying isn't that hard in this game, it's fairly common for a top level player to troll 2-3 players at a time without any kind of backup. Granted this is somewhat class dependent as some classes are better carry classes than others.

Maybe he can, maybe he can't. Point is, both teams stand a chance. Bigger point is, this is an extreme case scenario that doesn't address the op's question at all and is just derailing the thread. OP sees blowout matches often enough to think they are not by chance. It is much more likely that his blowouts are do to factors other than match maker screwing him over with unbalanced team ratings.

[Chapell.1346]

There is no Spoon B)

[Abazigal.3679]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:Sure it requires communication, quick message while respawning and map pings is enough for that. Both teams have roughly the same chance really. The 1800 player has 4 teammates he can't rely on, and the 1350 team has one enemy giving them a tough time. Even in your team setup scenario, which is a rare extreme case scenario btw, neither team has a ridiculous advantage over the other.

Why can't he rely on those players? I mean, you're assuming the low level players are window dressing and that all the 1350 players are actually quite good?

The 1350 team should be able to easily handle the 1200 players, meaning the 1800 player needs to carry hard to pick up the slack since he can't simultaneously cover 3 points. I mean, if it was a team of 1350 players vs a team of 1200 players, people would complain this was unbalanced and the 1200 team had no chance. You think that changing one player suddenly makes the 1200 team god mode and now the 1350 team has no chance? Really?

I feel like you've gotten too caught up in the what-if details of your fantasy scenario here and aren't even focusing on the op's question anymore.

The 1800 player can easily carry that though. Any node the 1800 player wants he can take, and the 1800 player presumably knows enough about rotations to know which nodes he wants.

Carrying isn't that hard in this game, it's fairly common for a top level player to troll 2-3 players at a time without any kind of backup. Granted this is somewhat class dependent as some classes are better carry classes than others.

That's easier said than done though. If you team 1800 with 1300 running druids thieves and engis against 1450 running double spellbreaker double scourge firebrand, i would bet it won't end up in an easy win. You can still reroll, but then we would get on an other debate.Also, the top player trolling 2-3 players point is situationnal, since it won't be about the 1800 being good but more likely about the 2-3 players being bad. There are also many players around 1200-1500 that aren't good at fighting/handling build but have good map and capture point knowledge, and the carrying won't really happen so easily.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Shaogin.2679 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:Sure it requires communication, quick message while respawning and map pings is enough for that. Both teams have roughly the same chance really. The 1800 player has 4 teammates he can't rely on, and the 1350 team has one enemy giving them a tough time. Even in your team setup scenario, which is a rare extreme case scenario btw, neither team has a ridiculous advantage over the other.

Why can't he rely on those players? I mean, you're assuming the low level players are window dressing and that all the 1350 players are actually quite good?

The 1350 team should be able to easily handle the 1200 players, meaning the 1800 player needs to carry hard to pick up the slack since he can't simultaneously cover 3 points. I mean, if it was a team of 1350 players vs a team of 1200 players, people would complain this was unbalanced and the 1200 team had no chance. You think that changing one player suddenly makes the 1200 team god mode and now the 1350 team has no chance? Really?

I feel like you've gotten too caught up in the what-if details of your fantasy scenario here and aren't even focusing on the op's question anymore.

The 1800 player can easily carry that though. Any node the 1800 player wants he can take, and the 1800 player presumably knows enough about rotations to know which nodes he wants.

Carrying isn't that hard in this game, it's fairly common for a top level player to troll 2-3 players at a time without any kind of backup. Granted this is somewhat class dependent as some classes are better carry classes than others.

Maybe he can, maybe he can't. Point is, both teams stand a chance. Bigger point is, this is an extreme case scenario that doesn't address the op's question at all and is just derailing the thread. OP sees blowout matches often enough to think they are not by chance. It is much more likely that his blowouts are do to factors other than match maker screwing him over with unbalanced team ratings.

Actually, it does answer the OP question...Because unlike what you suggest, i'm agreeing with the OP. The lack of population does lead to unbalanced matches, exactly because it can create matches that, although numerically balanced, are extremely one-sided.I'ts not a problem with the system though, it's a problem with ANet's Past choices and the delapidation of the PvP population.Well, there's a component with the system that also helps with this. The extreme volatility resulting from short seasons also creates the potential for people to be highly under or over ranked from a couple bad matches, this also skews the results.> @Abazigal.3679 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Shaogin.2679 said:Sure it requires communication, quick message while respawning and map pings is enough for that. Both teams have roughly the same chance really. The 1800 player has 4 teammates he can't rely on, and the 1350 team has one enemy giving them a tough time. Even in your team setup scenario, which is a rare extreme case scenario btw, neither team has a ridiculous advantage over the other.

Why can't he rely on those players? I mean, you're assuming the low level players are window dressing and that all the 1350 players are actually quite good?

The 1350 team should be able to easily handle the 1200 players, meaning the 1800 player needs to carry hard to pick up the slack since he can't simultaneously cover 3 points. I mean, if it was a team of 1350 players vs a team of 1200 players, people would complain this was unbalanced and the 1200 team had no chance. You think that changing one player suddenly makes the 1200 team god mode and now the 1350 team has no chance? Really?

I feel like you've gotten too caught up in the what-if details of your fantasy scenario here and aren't even focusing on the op's question anymore.

The 1800 player can easily carry that though. Any node the 1800 player wants he can take, and the 1800 player presumably knows enough about rotations to know which nodes he wants.

Carrying isn't that hard in this game, it's fairly common for a top level player to troll 2-3 players at a time without any kind of backup. Granted this is somewhat class dependent as some classes are better carry classes than others.

That's easier said than done though. If you team 1800 with 1300 running druids thieves and engis against 1450 running double spellbreaker double scourge firebrand, i would bet it won't end up in an easy win. You can still reroll, but then we would get on an other debate.Also, the top player trolling 2-3 players point is situationnal, since it won't be about the 1800 being good but more likely about the 2-3 players being bad. There are also many players around 1200-1500 that aren't good at fighting/handling build but have good map and capture point knowledge, and the carrying won't really happen so easily.

Of course. My scenario was a hypothetical "worse case", everything is situational. But it just offers a counterpoint to Shaogin's statement that it's always balanced, and there's always a chance. That's categorically not true, in fact, i'm not sure about current match maker, but at the very least the past algorithms (and the ones used in almost every other game) will always create a team that has a higher likelihood of winning, and one with a lower one.

[Rodzynald.5897]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"Shaogin.2679" said:While players from different divisions can be matched together, they are usually split into two even teams according to Anet. From what I've seen in my matches, this is generally true, though there are some that will swear up and down that they are being set up with impossible matches.

Anet stated they plan on showing player mmr's after the match in the future, so that will really help people see what is going on. You also have to consider that team comps and the players' coordination with each other can cause blowouts in what should have been a balanced match.

"Even" teams. Thing is it's matching the average MMR of the teams. But a guy with 1800 MMR if he's actually good enough might have the experience to beat 2-3 guys with 1350 MMR, that leaves 4 guys with 1200 MMR to fight 2-3 guys with 1350 MMR.Because those are the numbers we're potentially looking at:1800+4x1200 = 6600/5 = 1320

So yeah, imagine that "Legendary" is playing a Scourge, Bunker FB, or some other more potentially game deciding class and you'll see how well that turns out.

Sadly there's hardly much Anet can do to reverse this, because it's a matter of population, not numbers.

But what if there was no class capable of carrying? Like thief, mirage, FB, Scourge or SB, perhaps druid. I believe if none of those were as strong as they currently are, there would be no 1 man armies running around being all high and mighty.