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The idea of elite specialization needs to be gone


eoz.1834

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This comes from a dude who haven't got pof expansion but bought both the core game and hot expansion at full price, got 1 set pve raid armor, couple legendaries and spends time mostly in WvW/PvP. Since pof I noticed that whenever I'm not playing with my revenant, I feel like I'm not supporting my squad. Speaking with WvW zerg meta specs, the gap between pof and non-pof specs is huge. For example, since pof, the core guardian build is huge handicapped compared to support firebrand, especially with against pof aoe spams. What elite spec is meant to be at start introducing different mechanics to the class instead giving steroids on current one. This became pay-to-win in different form. I want to buy the game for new features/maps/mechanics instead buying to win fight/matchup/kill a boss etc.

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As long as one expansion doesn't make the old elite specializations obsolete. We have a decent mix atm between Hot and PoF specs. They're each useful in their own ways.A base core build should not be able to match 'elite specializations' as they are designed to be an advancement from the core class

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before hot, most of mesmer mains wants to play the class with aoe capabilities like the old nerfed glamour confusion build. when chronomancer announced everyone got hyped about having wells like necromancer wells. when hot released, chrono was over buffed version of old time-warp builds with alacrity. same gameplay with overbuffed version and nerfing some old mechanics which makes the old build useless.

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@Klipso.8653 said:As long as one expansion doesn't make the old elite specializations obsolete. We have a decent mix atm between Hot and PoF specs. They're each useful in their own ways.A base core build should not be able to match 'elite specializations' as they are designed to be an advancement from the core class

I'm not sure they're supposed to be an 'advancement' are they? I don't remember reading that anywhere. Some do certainly seem stronger in various areas than others, but I think development would - and do - ideally aim for balance across all specialisations.

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@Reverielle.3972 said:

@Klipso.8653 said:As long as one expansion doesn't make the old elite specializations obsolete. We have a decent mix atm between Hot and PoF specs. They're each useful in their own ways.A base core build should not be able to match 'elite specializations' as they are designed to be an advancement from the core class

I'm not sure they're supposed to be an 'advancement' are they? I don't remember reading that anywhere. Some do certainly seem stronger in various areas than others, but I think development would - and do - ideally aim for balance across all specialisations.

since the reaper i have never bin this powerful, all the others are way to weak and do poor at best.if it is really as balanced as you think then all the others would be equal as powerful. (or the reaper would suck just as much)

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@sorudo.9054 said:

@Klipso.8653 said:As long as one expansion doesn't make the old elite specializations obsolete. We have a decent mix atm between Hot and PoF specs. They're each useful in their own ways.A base core build should not be able to match 'elite specializations' as they are designed to be an advancement from the core class

I'm not sure they're supposed to be an 'advancement' are they? I don't remember reading that anywhere. Some do certainly seem stronger in various areas than others, but I think development would - and do - ideally aim for balance across all specialisations.

since the reaper i have never bin this powerful, all the others are way to weak and do poor at best.if it is really as balanced as you think then all the others would be equal as powerful. (or the reaper would suck just as much)

I didn't say I think they are, I actually said the opposite (re post above's text).

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@Klipso.8653 said:As long as one expansion doesn't make the old elite specializations obsolete. We have a decent mix atm between Hot and PoF specs. They're each useful in their own ways.A base core build should not be able to match 'elite specializations' as they are designed to be an advancement from the core class

They have specifically said, when elite specializations came out, that they were meant to be sidegrades to the core spec.

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@Skyline Crash.6254 said:

@Klipso.8653 said:As long as one expansion doesn't make the old elite specializations obsolete. We have a decent mix atm between Hot and PoF specs. They're each useful in their own ways.A base core build should not be able to match 'elite specializations' as they are designed to be an advancement from the core class

They have specifically said, when elite specializations came out, that they were meant to be sidegrades to the core spec.

Mind showing me a link to that statement?

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@Reverielle.3972 said:

@Klipso.8653 said:As long as one expansion doesn't make the old elite specializations obsolete. We have a decent mix atm between Hot and PoF specs. They're each useful in their own ways.A base core build should not be able to match 'elite specializations' as they are designed to be an advancement from the core class

I'm not sure they're supposed to be an 'advancement' are they? I don't remember reading that anywhere. Some do certainly seem stronger in various areas than others, but I think development would - and do - ideally aim for balance across all specialisations.

That's exactly what they are. Elite specs were designed from the get-go to either enhance certain aspects of the professions, or add functionality to them that didn't exist before. Not only that, but some specs are clearly meant to perform better in some game modes than in others. Warrior's Spellbreaker spec, for instance, was very clearly designed with a focus on competitive game modes, as boon removal is nearly useless in general pve. They NEVER once claimed that all elite specializations for all classes would be useful in every game mode... they merely stated that the elite specs would either enhance or alter the base gameplay of the class.

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@"eoz.1834" said:also check this. I don't know the dude. It's just top of the video when you search in youtube. The gameplay is same like before pof even before hot. The difference is overbuffing the damage and filling the gaps that the old build had.

Also is it just me or would a dual pistol perma quickness Deadeye be a WAY more appropriate profession for a character named Kiritsugu Emeya (Character from Fate/Zero)

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@eoz.1834 said:This comes from a dude who haven't got pof expansion but bought both the core game and hot expansion at full price, got 1 set pve raid armor, couple legendaries and spends time mostly in WvW/PvP. Since pof I noticed that whenever I'm not playing with my revenant, I feel like I'm not supporting my squad. Speaking with WvW zerg meta specs, the gap between pof and non-pof specs is huge. For example, since pof, the core guardian build is huge handicapped compared to support firebrand, especially with against pof aoe spams. What elite spec is meant to be at start introducing different mechanics to the class instead giving steroids on current one. This became pay-to-win in different form. I want to buy the game for new features/maps/mechanics instead buying to win fight/matchup/kill a boss etc.

Your 'feelings' are not enough to demonstrate any deficiencies between classes. The facts are that you don't NEED the new especs to 'win' any part of the game.

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@Skyline Crash.6254 said:

@"Klipso.8653" said:As long as one expansion doesn't make the old elite specializations obsolete. We have a decent mix atm between Hot and PoF specs. They're each useful in their own ways.A base core build should not be able to match 'elite specializations' as they are designed to be an advancement from the core class

They have specifically said, when elite specializations came out, that they were meant to be sidegrades to the core spec.

As far as I can recall, they were absolutely meant to be upgrades (therefore "Elite"), but be sidegrades to each other, filling different roles as more Elite Specs are added.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@eoz.1834 said:This comes from a dude who haven't got pof expansion but bought both the core game and hot expansion at full price, got 1 set pve raid armor, couple legendaries and spends time mostly in WvW/PvP. Since pof I noticed that whenever I'm not playing with my revenant, I feel like I'm not supporting my squad. Speaking with WvW zerg meta specs, the gap between pof and non-pof specs is huge. For example, since pof, the core guardian build is huge handicapped compared to support firebrand, especially with against pof aoe spams. What elite spec is meant to be at start introducing different mechanics to the class instead giving steroids on current one. This became pay-to-win in different form. I want to buy the game for new features/maps/mechanics instead buying to win fight/matchup/kill a boss etc.

Your 'feelings' are not enough to demonstrate any deficiencies between classes. The facts are that you don't NEED the new especs to 'win' any part of the game.

Apparently you do not wvw....

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@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Klipso.8653 said:As long as one expansion doesn't make the old elite specializations obsolete. We have a decent mix atm between Hot and PoF specs. They're each useful in their own ways.A base core build should not be able to match 'elite specializations' as they are designed to be an advancement from the core class

I'm not sure they're supposed to be an 'advancement' are they? I don't remember reading that anywhere. Some do certainly seem stronger in various areas than others, but I think development would - and do - ideally aim for balance across all specialisations.

That's exactly what they are. Elite specs were designed from the get-go to either enhance certain aspects of the professions, or add functionality to them that didn't exist before. Not only that, but some specs are clearly meant to perform better in some game modes than in others. Warrior's Spellbreaker spec, for instance, was very clearly designed with a focus on competitive game modes, as boon removal is nearly useless in general pve. They NEVER once claimed that all elite specializations for all classes would be useful in every game mode... they merely stated that the elite specs would either enhance or alter the base gameplay of the class.

Boon removal is useful in certain levels of fractals and in PoF itself where everything seems to have protection.

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The idea of Elite Specializations is fine as long is it comes with BALANCE. So for thief, you have daredevil, deadeye, but from the Core nothing stands out. Also with Elite Specializations you get a unique class icon which can indicate to enemies what you're running. If it was mandatory to have a Elite Specialization trait, and 2 of the others were optional to pick between and you can't run more than one elite specialization then I think the idea of them would be good.

Otherwise I agree, they should just be equal to the rest of the trait lines, get no special icon, and not be so overpowered in comparison.

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Excelsior!

For Thief, both elite specializations were obvious sidegrades.

For either Daredevil and Deadeye, you have to sacrifice a bit of the core Thief to gain something in the desired direction. For example, I think the stolen skills of the Deadeye are awkward and nothing compared to the actual steal that granted me stealth, shadow stepping, damage, poison, etc. to the victim I stole from, and a random bonus item/weapon that does not run out like the stolen skills when the mark's over. But why would I want to get close an enemy when I am on a ledge, kneeling with my long-range rifle? Of course I had to sacrifice that. Or the 3rd dodge ability - when I am in safe distances, it makes sense that a Daredevil has 3 dodges, but not Core Thief or Deadeye. When I have been a Daredevil, I loved to dash around and punch people in their crotch with Fist Flurry and every dodge caused stacks of agony do nearby guys (and even gave away their position if stealthed when you noticed where the daggers are flowing towards to). That was a button mashing and fast gameplay, but that's self-explanatory with the profession's name. I never used any kind of traps though anymore.

Unlike other professions (I won't name them, else their mains come up and will tell me I am all wrong), thief has been advanced in both directions and in my opinion it was done marvellous. I never played a Thief/Rogue class in any game before, here in GW2 it's a blast and pure enjoyment on all levels. Other professions however seem to have stacked on their core professions and became a tad over the top. There are no sacrifices in a certain department, rather arenaNet just overloaded them so they became (insert profession name)² with HoT and (insert profession name)³ with PoF.

I am glad Thief did this transition well so far, you can branch out from the expected business of a Thief (e.g. stealing, traps, dagger and pistol fights, poison...) to Daredevil (faster gameplay, more into-the-action, more dodges, more reward for face-to-face fights) or Deadeye (slower gameplay, but safe, with some patience or planning massive potential of a few well-fired bullets, but basically no real stealth (sniper's cover..eh...), no real evade (minus Rifle standing 4), no reason for traps and no stealing anymore.

I wonder what's their next plan. In my opinion, the next specilazion should come from job-specific character improvement. Instead of getting new skills, you should be able to get better at them like in GTA: San Andreas, where you became better at driving, shooting and fitness the more you used those abilities. I would not mind to work for 2s more stealth or e.g. less RNG on steal (e.g. you select what you prefer and the better you are at stealing, the higher the chance get to steal your pfeferred item if said NPC has it in his item pool).

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