Offensive shield generators neutralizes most defense counterplay

[Esprit Dumort.3109]

I see this more and more, that a 60+ player zerg that wants to take down a t2 or t3 tower/keep will layer their rams / catapults / trebuchets with shields and attack without worry from any defensive siege. Only a zerg can counter this type of play style now, which is frustrating for small groups trying to defend.

Defensive siege is essentially useless. Catapults, arrow carts, ballista, trebs, and siege disablers are all blocked by shield gens. That's assuming that the attacking zerg has not aoe'd your wall defenses down to nothing.

Even with Inulnvurable Fortifications, it's often not enough for a counter zerg from another map to save a tower against the multiple shield + 5-6 superior ram combos, especially with a keep waypoint contested.

The current method of using overwhelming siege makes defense very limited without a sufficient counter zerg to come to the rescue. You might as well just turn each tower into a PvP point that can be captured... the Lord ring, without a defensive barriers.

[Ychiju.7960]

Agree 100%.Siege weapons are and should be a double-edged sword insofar as they do not completely take out the possibility of counteractions. Defensive shield generators still meet that criterion because there are very rarely 2 or 3 defenders using 2-3 SGs to completely shield a particular wall.It's ok when the enemy has the sups and people to build 100 rams at your gate and you cannot stop them - but offensive SGs are simply OP. No matter how good you are at defending or how much siege you have, the enemy just needs to spam offensive SGs (and as mentioned, zergs do it most of the time when the objective has siege and is defended) and you can go home.

[ThunderPanda.1872]

If they also remove siege disablers, sure delete shield gen

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Oh no someone uses a proper strategy that doesn’t rely on glitches or unfair gameplay to even the playing field of the advantages defenders have. Must nerf that immediately /s

[Kovu.7560]

I don't think its broken. Enemies still get damage through, especially if the attackers are using rams (as one must on inner SMC).Pro stealth disables between bubbles is also hilarious, even if I'm on the receiving end of those far more often than the giving end.

Personally I think unreachable defensive siege behind tier 3 walls is more of an issue than catas/rams & shield gens. Can't disable or AOE that shit.

~ Kovu

[Sovereign.1093]

sorry guys. numbers is king in this game.

consider burn guards. it's been balanced but your ac is dead.

while soft counter to rams. you can f1 5 4 111.the gate too. firebrand

[adammantium.8031]

I see OP's point, but disagree here. I don't think a small number of people should be able to turtle in a tower indefinitely. And even with shield gens, I still think there are sufficient options for defenders to cause significant or discourage attackers entirely.

Attacking groups will usually take out an objective's cannons, mortars etc in advance of an attack. If you know a big group is on map and preparing for this, take steps to prepare yourself. Booby trap or drain your camps of supply. Drop supply traps everywhere you can. Siege the hell out of your defending objective.

When the enemy do arrive, siege disablers are your friend. If you can disable the shield gens, then rams will drop fast. Invulnerable fortifications can buy you more time. Have roamers pick off stragglers or anyone respawning who might be returning to the attacking commander with more supply.

If you can muster 10-15 heavies around a tag, fight under your siege and focus on bombing around the shield gens.

Regardless of that, defensive shield gens do make it so that an organized force (and if you're doing the above, they will need to be organized), committing large amounts of people and supply, can eventually break into your objective if you're not willing to come out and fight, which IMO is a good thing.

[Sovereign.1093]

a possible solution i see. is reset objectives every 4 to 24 hours.

this way small groups can take objectives and not face a superblob defending t3 all the time.

or change the game mechanice like auto siege razer. stand and get an npc to attack an objective. players fight to def or attack that npc like the old pvp mode. that was fun.

you summon gw2 heros to siege the keep.

[ThunderPanda.1872]

@Sovereign.1093 said:a possible solution i see. is reset objectives every 4 to 24 hours.

this way small groups can take objectives and not face a superblob defending t3 all the time.

or change the game mechanice like auto siege razer. stand and get an npc to attack an objective. players fight to def or attack that npc like the old pvp mode. that was fun.

you summon gw2 heros to siege the keep.

Not sure if troll, but if not..

No. Even less incentive for bl roamers to care about upgrading towers. We already lost a lot of it to auto upgrades. No more.

[Sovereign.1093]

@ThunderPanda.1872 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:a possible solution i see. is reset objectives every 4 to 24 hours.

this way small groups can take objectives and not face a superblob defending t3 all the +time.

or change the game mechanice like auto siege razer. stand and get an npc to attack an objective. players fight to def or attack that npc like the old pvp mode. that was fun.

you summon gw2 heros to siege the keep.

Not sure if troll, but if not..

No. Even less incentive for bl roamers to care about upgrading towers. We already lost a lot of it to auto upgrades. No more.

not troll. roamers can do their thing. this is for the general pugs.

we lost some, we gained some.

[Trajan.4953]

Shield Gens were brought into being by the Anet Gods in all their infinite wisdom. Embrace or be cast down heathens.

[Sovereign.1093]

why shield gens?

Because no one can easily take a blob defended t3 with so many acs trebs supply traps disables.

So, gens were introduced. Now it's a bit balanced. If you got the siege and jumbers, you will win. else gg.

You can split your group into 10 per group and ppt fights to focus on other objectives to split the enemy zerg.

This game is pro attacker pptwise. But it's very fun to defend because thats where the fights are.

[Esprit Dumort.3109]

@adammantium.8031 said:

When the enemy do arrive, siege disablers are your friend. If you can disable the shield gens, then rams will drop fast. Invulnerable fortifications can buy you more time. Have roamers pick off stragglers or anyone respawning who might be returning to the attacking commander with more supply.

If you can muster 10-15 heavies around a tag, fight under your siege and focus on bombing around the shield gens.

Regardless of that, defensive shield gens do make it so that an organized force (and if you're doing the above, they will need to be organized), committing large amounts of people and supply, can eventually break into your objective if you're not willing to come out and fight, which IMO is a good thing.

Any smart commander will space shield gens apart, have scouts further up harassing any disable attempts, and have enough redundancy to make sure one or two shield gens down is not a big deal. With rams, sure, disables are helpful, but as most groups do long range catas or trebs, disables are not really helpful if you cannot get there before dying or being interrupted. A small percentage of professions have stealth, so that's not really a counter argument here.

An attacking zerg can essentially choke out wall defenders from trying to build AC's and other siege already, shield gens provide the last bit of defense needed to make taking towers relatively effortless against a small group of defenders.

[Svarty.8019]

My similar post got lots of replies. Obviously, it's still an issue after the changes the discussion spurred... Oh that's right - there were no changes!

Here is my post:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/2163/how-to-counter-siege-shield-generators#latest

[DeadlySynz.3471]

The offensive use of shield generators is a bit ridiculous, but so is trying to take a well sieged T3 objective. Remember it wasn't long about that people were moaning and groaning about T3's rarely ever being attacked or taken because no commander wants to bang their head against the wall for an indefinite amount of time trying to take it. Then came the "remove all the tactivators" & "Reduce the amount of siege allowed".

I'd much rather them remove shield gens from the game completely. Then remove the tactivators, or at the very least remove the structural invulnerability and emergency wp ones. Consideration should also be given to remove the amount of defensive siege placed in any tower/keep. As much as some people like sitting on arrowcarts, I guarantee those same people would hate sitting under arrowcart fire if the shoe was on the other foot.

If they are unwilling to pull a drastic measure, then Anet should just change the Anti-Air bolt skill from the Ballista (because it really is next to useless), to a bubble shatter skill instead. Shattering the bubble damages siege and damages all players within the bubble making them bleed

[Esprit Dumort.3109]

Most siege in towers can be nuked by ballistas or player AoE, so the statements about a tower staying bunkered is not necessarily true. Sure there are some unreachable spots, but for the most part those are limited. A large zerg can already control tower/keep walls, preventing most siege retaliation. A t3 should not drop in <2min because overwhelming siege that cannot be countered.

[Jerry CCH.9816]

open field plzno acno treb B)Anet should remove Arrow Cart from gw2

[Napo.1230]

With out shield generators servers like BB would never cap a thing.If that's what keeps players on maps then so be it.

[Rezzet.3614]

The solution is simple, make siege disablers unblockable

[sephiroth.4217]

Can't we just delete siege and remove all the doors from towers?

Atleast that way if a 60 man group wants to zerg a tower, the other team could have 4 small groups flip 4 towers

[X T D.6458]

It may be difficult, and next to impossible sometimes for a small group to defend against a large zerg BUT that does not mean it will always be a small group. What happens if its an entire map blob sitting on siege in a keep, why shouldn't the attacking force use shield gens to protect themselves? You cant simply put in conditions on siege where they can only be used in certain situations.

The best way to defend is to use scouts and proper communications with groups and commanders. You wont save everything everytime, but at least you give yourself the best chance this way.

[Svarty.8019]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

I'd much rather them remove shield gens from the game completely. Then remove the tactivators, or at the very least remove the structural invulnerability and emergency wp ones.

What's good about the invulnerable and waypoint is their temporary nature. Shield generators don't have those.

[Aeolus.3615]

:o defense?? cant u defend on the wall???? ohhh wait!...

its a game to carry players against structures, when soemthing gets atacked players should leave and atack what is not being defending (thi si swhat Anet liked, no fight, no lag, every one ktrains...)

its a game for bad players.

[shiri.4257]

i'd venture to say there are more small scale roaming/havoc type fights for t1/2 structures vs t3. t3 with 5-10 man is almost impossible unless it's dead zone. periodic structure resets every 4-8hrs could be practical.

[Vermillion.4061]

@Rezzet.3614 said:The solution is simple, make siege disablers unblockable

no thanks