Seems like Ele got screwed on BOTH elite specilizations

[Smakkage.6197]

Why does anet hate Elementalist exactly? Seems like both elite specs are really underwhelming and core ele is just as powerful. I do see the appeal of weaver in most game modes. but Ele doesn't have a single build that really excels in Conquest or Wvw.... I'm just returning but I mained ele for a long time and I'm super close to quitting again due to how lackluster I feel compared to other classes. Any suggestions? Should I just reroll mesmer? :#

[Lalainnia.3598]

For wvw and conquest. Backline weavers are devastating dps for wvw, Healing Tempests are still great nothing actually made them bad all of a sudden FB support is just a thing now along with scourge support. For roaming scepter FA eles are hilarious for blowing up ppl condi sword or power sword I can hold there own aswell in roaming. As for spvp conquest Healing tempest is still viable simply overshadowed by FB support, while FA core ele is great but susceptible to condis and then you have sages weaver which is great but very susceptible to burst power damage more so because it's in constant melee. There also a menders build I believe but im not sure how it's doing since the fury nerf in arcane.

If you really enjoy the class no need to reroll its not top dog in Conquest or wvw atm but it's not horribly worthless. By all means tho it's good to have other professions, if anything to learn how to fight against them.

[steki.1478]

There's nothing wrong with weaver or ele in general, it's just very well balanced across game modes (squishy but having huge damage output/tanky with lots of heals but doing low damage). Problem (in pvp/wvw) is that classes/elite specs (from PoF especially) that are utterly broken arent getting any significant nerfs (have huge sustain/damage mitigation while doing insane damage).

And of course, people will play what's the strongest in current meta.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

The problem of ele in conquest is that it lacks of targeted burst (except on scepter which is the only thing u can see in high ranked game)

If you want to play another weapon in pvp ... almost every dmging abilities are too easy to dodge and to long to cast (staff) or the burst isn"t significant enough to do usefull things except Control if guys haven't stabs (sword weaver)Or are nerfed to the ground back to the golden age of D/D ele when celestial amulet was broken (Dagger)

That's for me the main reasons why we only see scepter weaver (or scepter core ele before PoF) in ranked for now ... tempest tbh i don't know why but it's really less efficient now even if condies are rampage in conquest at this moment =/ (Firebrand does better anyway)

[Sindariel.2354]

The only thing that's wrong with ele are conjures.... and our pitiful base HP.

[Smakkage.6197]

@steki.1478 said:There's nothing wrong with weaver or ele in general, it's just very well balanced across game modes (squishy but having huge damage output/tanky with lots of heals but doing low damage). Problem (in pvp/wvw) is that classes/elite specs (from PoF especially) that are utterly broken arent getting any significant nerfs (have huge sustain/damage mitigation while doing insane damage).

And of course, people will play what's the strongest in current meta.

So basically what you're saying is that because other classes are so utterly imbalanced, elementalist feels lackluster?

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I think tempest is underwhelming just because it's the lamest elite spec. The only cool thing is all the aura share. Tempest on the other hand (I've played it but don't own PoF) is pretty tight, may be over complicated but at least it can get shit done in terms of dps.

[Jski.6180]

Tempest did to much dmg to be that all in support class so you will never see a major buff to its support effects with out seeing a massive nerf to its dmg. Weaver is oddly slow dmg due to double swaps so its burst will always be lacking.

[Kako.1930]

Idk, I don't really enjoy Weaver but tempest still seems good to me. I play a Marauder staff build (fire, air, tempest) in all game modes, and it might seem crazy but it actually works pretty well. :P

[Ferus.3165]

with the next patch the top 3 classes are hopefully being toned down and that should even out the playing field a bit

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@"Ferus.3165" said:with the next patch the top 3 classes are hopefully being toned down and that should even out the playing field a bit

you actually thinking Anet will use a balance update to balance the game!? You must be new here. "Balance" updates are designed to make the brokenly strong specs stronger, the hated specs weaker and to add loads of new bugs and issues that will take years (if ever...) to be fixed. Not a lot of actual balancing happens during "balance" updates lol

[reikken.4961]

@Smakkage.6197 said:Should I just reroll mesmer? :#

yes

[steki.1478]

@Smakkage.6197 said:So basically what you're saying is that because other classes are so utterly imbalanced, elementalist feels lackluster?

Only in some areas, like pvp or wvw roaming. But even there, you can still win all matchups, although it requires lots of skill and knowledge about your and enemy class/build and there's almost no place for mistakes against those imbalanced builds. It's quite strong in wvw zergs and pve group content, but again, a bit more skill based than most of other damage dealers (mistakes cost more).

That's the best thing I like about ele, you cant just faceroll and win everything, it requires good positioning and fast reactions. Mastering it is a great challenge and an amazing reward.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@steki.1478 said:Only in some areas, like pvp or wvw roaming. But even there, you can still win all matchups, although it requires lots of skill and knowledge about your and enemy class/build and there's almost no place for mistakes against those imbalanced builds. It's quite strong in wvw zergs and pve group content, but again, a bit more skill based than most of other damage dealers (mistakes cost more).

That's the best thing I like about ele, you cant just faceroll and win everything, it requires good positioning and fast reactions. Mastering it is a great challenge and an amazing reward.

That is VERY debatable. There are MANY match ups that hugely disadvantage you by being an Ele. Bunker Warriors with insane sustain, blocks, immunties while still having insane damage, burst mobility and CC, Condi Mesmer is nothing short of a dreadful mess to fight against when Roaming.

[caveman.5840]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"Ferus.3165" said:with the next patch the top 3 classes are hopefully being toned down and that should even out the playing field a bit

you actually thinking Anet will use a balance update to balance the game!? You must be new here. "Balance" updates are designed to make the brokenly strong specs stronger, the hated specs weaker and to add loads of new bugs and issues that will take years (if ever...) to be fixed. Not a lot of actual balancing happens during "balance" updates lol

lol idk what it is about anet , it takes them ages to put out a balance patch than when it finally comes out it looks like they thought of it in the week before it was released

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@caveman.5840 said:lol idk what it is about anet , it takes them ages to put out a balance patch than when it finally comes out it looks like they thought of it in the week before it was released

Yep. It really makes me laugh how it takes them 6 months to do a proper balance update. Then make it look like they did it on the last day with no testing or anything. Though release day is the BEST part about this game - Trying to find out what changes were intentional, what were bugged and what were hidden changes that were intended but never listed and what were just flat out broken lol

[MarkoNS.3261]

@Smakkage.6197 said:Why does anet hate Elementalist exactly? Seems like both elite specs are really underwhelming and core ele is just as powerful. I do see the appeal of weaver in most game modes. but Ele doesn't have a single build that really excels in Conquest or Wvw.... I'm just returning but I mained ele for a long time and I'm super close to quitting again due to how lackluster I feel compared to other classes. Any suggestions? Should I just reroll mesmer? :#

anet developers have a problem with eles for a long time they dont realize that instead of nerfing ele because its top dps class that they should buff other classes and not just piss off every ele player.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@MarkoNS.3261 said:

@Smakkage.6197 said:Why does anet hate Elementalist exactly? Seems like both elite specs are really underwhelming and core ele is just as powerful. I do see the appeal of weaver in most game modes. but Ele doesn't have a single build that really excels in Conquest or Wvw.... I'm just returning but I mained ele for a long time and I'm super close to quitting again due to how lackluster I feel compared to other classes. Any suggestions? Should I just reroll mesmer? :#

anet developers have a problem with eles for a long time they dont realize that instead of nerfing ele because its top dps class that they should buff other classes and not just kitten off every ele player.

The issues are:

a) Anet Don't have a cohesive vision for a SPELLCASTER Ele i.e a Bruiser with weak defenses, or an absolutely shitty build based around kiting with weak defenses. Both of which get slaughtered in wvw and spvp against anyone with a sliver of game knowledge.b) Seem to be making balancing decisions based on aoe whoring in raids or on test dummies (outside of these scenarios ele dps is average at best) Worst still the best ps is the most boring, simplistic staff.c) Anet balance FAR FAR too slowly to ever be able to keep up with balancing demands. Their deployment cycle is antiquated by modern standards.

[MarkoNS.3261]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@MarkoNS.3261 said:

@"Smakkage.6197" said:Why does anet hate Elementalist exactly? Seems like both elite specs are really underwhelming and core ele is just as powerful. I do see the appeal of weaver in most game modes. but Ele doesn't have a single build that really excels in Conquest or Wvw.... I'm just returning but I mained ele for a long time and I'm super close to quitting again due to how lackluster I feel compared to other classes. Any suggestions? Should I just reroll mesmer? :#

anet developers have a problem with eles for a long time they dont realize that instead of nerfing ele because its top dps class that they should buff other classes and not just kitten off every ele player.

The issues are:

a) Anet Don't have a cohesive vision for a SPELLCASTER Ele i.e a Bruiser with weak defenses, or an absolutely kitten build based around kiting with weak defenses. Both of which get slaughtered in wvw and spvp against anyone with a sliver of game knowledge.b) Seem to be making balancing decisions based on aoe kitten in raids or on test dummies (outside of these scenarios ele dps is average at best) Worst still the best ps is the most boring, simplistic staff.c) Anet balance FAR FAR too slowly to ever be able to keep up with balancing demands. Their deployment cycle is antiquated by modern standards.

buddy anet balance team needs to balance itself first before they make pointless random nerfs.

anet balance team in action.

[Bladestrom.6425]

balance team needs to balance itself first before they make pointless random nerfs.

anet balance team in action.

lol

[steki.1478]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:That is VERY debatable. There are MANY match ups that hugely disadvantage you by being an Ele. Bunker Warriors with insane sustain, blocks, immunties while still having insane damage, burst mobility and CC, Condi Mesmer is nothing short of a dreadful mess to fight against when Roaming.

Well, you can kite spellbreaker with scepter ele/weaver when it has its defenses up and just burst it down after that. Not very easy since it has tons of gap closers+resistance for your immobs/chills, but manageable. Terrain is your biggest ally here, you can blink, they cant. Air focus 5 is unblockable CC, use it wisely.

Mirage is..special, if it gets you low from stealth (both condi or power), you cant do anything. You have lots of cleanses with water/arc sword weaver, but it's hard to do any damage. Scepter ele/weaver has very good chance of killing power mesmers (any spec) because you can easily avoid mesmer's burst with twist of fate/arcane shield and use your own bursts against it. Condi mesmer (any spec) is just stupid, it has way too strong condi burst, too many sources of condies and big amount of disengages/damage mitigation tools.But the point is same, there's nothing wrong with ele. There are just other specs that are too strong and hard to play against (not just as ele).

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@steki.1478 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:That is VERY debatable. There are MANY match ups that hugely disadvantage you by being an Ele. Bunker Warriors with insane sustain, blocks, immunties while still having insane damage, burst mobility and CC, Condi Mesmer is nothing short of a dreadful mess to fight against when Roaming.

Well, you can kite spellbreaker with scepter ele/weaver when it has its defenses up and just burst it down after that. Not very easy since it has tons of gap closers+resistance for your immobs/chills, but manageable. Terrain is your biggest ally here, you can blink, they cant. Air focus 5 is unblockable CC, use it wisely.

Mirage is..special, if it gets you low from stealth (both condi or power), you cant do anything. You have lots of cleanses with water/arc sword weaver, but it's hard to do any damage. Scepter ele/weaver has very good chance of killing power mesmers (any spec) because you can easily avoid mesmer's burst with twist of fate/arcane shield and use your own bursts against it. Condi mesmer (any spec) is just stupid, it has way too strong condi burst, too many sources of condies and big amount of disengages/damage mitigation tools.But the point is same, there's nothing wrong with ele. There are just other specs that are too strong and hard to play against (not just as ele).

Does that not say something that you have to be a specific build with specific weapons to stand any chance? Now you are also forgetting that Warrior have MUCH better mobility than Scepter/Focus and if they go with Scepter/Dagger they have no mobility. So no matter what you do, you are making sacrifices JUST to possibly stand a chance against pretty any Warrior build because of how poorly they were designed and balanced.

Now, the other problem is, they still have much better damage, the typical FA Scepter build would only really work if the warrior NEVER moves. If hes AFK, then yeah its a win. If he is actually playing its still advantage warrior. The use of an unblockable CC wont save you. Ever. They have MUCH better sustain and passive self healing to really be that worried by a single ele burst.

I would disagree about Mirage Power builds, the few i have encountered and there is a reason why they are few (they arent very good.) i have encountered a few and beaten them all. Condi Mirage on the other hand is sky levels of bad balance. They have burst damage when it comes to Conditions, with sustain levels of duration combined with constant application. They have plenty of stealth, mobility, teleports and defense to not really be able to be locked down.

You have plenty of cleanses. The problem is again, application far exceeds removal so you are always fighting a losing battle because melee or ranged Mesmer has too much application. You can remove 10 stacks of Torment and confusion but, you will just have them back on you in a few seconds. This is the problem. When you are against Scourge, you have time to remove the conditions, to reposition to get ranged and have a chance to recover and attack (this is good...) Mirage however, there is no down time. There is no chance and time to recover. It is just sheer neverending application and it is the WRONG kind of application 2 of the most poorly designed conditions in the game - Torment that punishes you if you dont move, punishes you more if you do and Confusion that punishes you for not using abilities and punishes you more if you do. They both last FAR too long for them to be any sort of balanced.

I wouldn't say there is anything too wrong with ele, it could use a little tweak here and there and Sword Weaver the most. Its the weakest of our weapons which is kinda sad. That being said. Several other specs are SO strong that i dont think they CAN become balanced. Condition builds, they are easy to rebalance. Classes though. Warrior in particular is on another level of unbalanced. The kind that a simple balance update might not even be enough.

[steki.1478]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

Does that not say something that you have to be a specific build with specific weapons to stand any chance? Now you are also forgetting that Warrior have MUCH better mobility than Scepter/Focus and if they go with Scepter/Dagger they have no mobility. So no matter what you do, you are making sacrifices JUST to possibly stand a chance against pretty any Warrior build because of how poorly they were designed and balanced.

I actually prefer build diversity, it gives you more options to play your class which makes playing it even more fun. When you see warr, for example, it has like one good roaming build (although it's a bit too good). Ele has more options, which aren't really broken, but are good if played properly. There should be certain counters to certain builds (like range is counter to scourge), but right now we need OP builds to get nerfed so they dont counter every single build and they cant outsustain everything else with barely any effort or gear/trait sacrifice.

[Lonami.2987]

@Smakkage.6197 said:Why does anet hate Elementalist exactly? Seems like both elite specs are really underwhelming and core ele is just as powerful. I do see the appeal of weaver in most game modes. but Ele doesn't have a single build that really excels in Conquest or Wvw.... I'm just returning but I mained ele for a long time and I'm super close to quitting again due to how lackluster I feel compared to other classes. Any suggestions? Should I just reroll mesmer? :#

I've said it a few times, and I hope to open a thread about it soon.

Elementalist is broken, at the core. It's not designed well. Attunements were a mistake, and we're paying the consequences now. Balancing and developing elementalist is harder than any other profession because of the goddamn attunements changing skills too much, and we don't even have weapon swap, which sucks. I doubt we'll ever get a two-handed weapon because of them, and if we do, the skills will probably be the same across attunements, which would be the right way to go, to be fair.

Attunements need to be unified so they have the same skill in the same slot (from a design perspective), with shared cooldowns. Then we can remove conjures, and get weapon swap with new weapon types for the core profession, and start balancing knowing staff 5 does the same in every attunement, with just some minor changes (fire rain, healing rain, etc, but all rain with same base design).

And I main elementalist, before you ask. I just can't play it seriously outside fire staff camping, because you have to do more than other professions to achieve the same, and it's not fun anymore. Elementalist should be about swapping attunements and doing cool stuff with the elements, but our profession is just terrible. What made it great at release, is slowly killing it off while the rest of the professions get cooler and better elite specializations.

@"Sindariel.2354" said:The only thing that's wrong with ele are conjures.... and our pitiful base HP.

Yeah, whenever they decided the base health for professions, they really screwed it up. Elementalist and guardian should be at the middle tier, with mesmer, thief, and revenant at the bottom, and necromancer, engineer, and warrior at the top.

[Wentworth.6901]

@Lonami.2987 said:

@Smakkage.6197 said:Why does anet hate Elementalist exactly? Seems like both elite specs are really underwhelming and core ele is just as powerful. I do see the appeal of weaver in most game modes. but Ele doesn't have a single build that really excels in Conquest or Wvw.... I'm just returning but I mained ele for a long time and I'm super close to quitting again due to how lackluster I feel compared to other classes. Any suggestions? Should I just reroll mesmer? :#

I've said it a few times, and I hope to open a thread about it soon.

Elementalist is broken, at the core. It's not designed well. Attunements were a mistake, and we're paying the consequences now. Balancing and developing elementalist is harder than any other profession because of the kitten attunements changing skills too much, and we don't even have weapon swap, which sucks. I doubt we'll ever get a two-handed weapon because of them, and if we do, the skills will probably be the same across attunements, which would be the right way to go, to be fair.

Attunements need to be unified so they have the same skill in the same slot (from a design perspective), with shared cooldowns. Then we can remove conjures, and get weapon swap with new weapon types for the core profession, and start balancing knowing staff 5 does the same in every attunement, with just some minor changes (fire rain, healing rain, etc, but all rain with same base design).

And I main elementalist, before you ask. I just can't play it seriously outside fire staff camping, because you have to do more than other professions to achieve the same, and it's not fun anymore. Elementalist should be about swapping attunements and doing cool stuff with the elements, but our profession is just terrible. What made it great at release, is slowly killing it off while the rest of the professions get cooler and better elite specializations.

@"Sindariel.2354" said:The only thing that's wrong with ele are conjures.... and our pitiful base HP.

Yeah, whenever they decided the

base health for professions

, they really screwed it up. Elementalist and guardian should be at the middle tier, with mesmer, thief, and revenant at the bottom, and necromancer, engineer, and warrior at the top.

I don't think you're on the mark with saying attunements are broken at their core. Ele is my main because of how they work. I find it the most fun, but that is because I enjoy complexity. Yes, it takes more work to pull off strong builds with the Ele, but that's also why I play it. And when you do pull it off, man is it fun and satisfying. Overall I think it was a great idea and designed rather well, its just some recent decisions for ele and other professions being very strong makes it look worse than it actually is. One area I do think ele could use some help is survivability. Its damage is pretty good, and if a few other classes were toned down it would be one of the best, but you seem to have to choose between damage and any survivability.