Revenant and Fractals

[Vespero.6180]

Hi all, I'd like to know how useful the Rev is in T3 and T4 Fractals.As of now, my guildmates told me that it makes no sense to run support because druid is better and it makes no sense to run dps because (almost) any other class is better.I also read some of the thread here and I see there's a lot of confusion. Someone saying it's good someone saying it's not..

I'm not an hardcore player, I honestly don't give a dime about 1k less damage per second than one other class, but if the damage is 50% less than the others and the support is the same, then it's better to change class.

[Jack Skywalker.5674]

From what I read: it's good in pugs due to the simplicity of Herald mechanics, it's bad in organized groups because the other classes have better stuff,but are harder to use in pugs.

[Blood.5607]

There is some condi renegade build that does relatively strong DPS, (16-18k dps), pretty sure its full vipers, but unsure of the traits/skill rotation... But it seems to be optimal

[Vespero.6180]

@Blood.5607 said:There is some condi renegade build that does relatively strong DPS, (16-18k dps), pretty sure its full vipers, but unsure of the traits/skill rotation... But it seems to be optimal

In comparison to my 31k warrior berserker (condition) or my elementalist, 16k looks like not worth it

[Vespero.6180]

@Jack Skywalker.5674 said:From what I read: it's good in pugs due to the simplicity of Herald mechanics, it's bad in organized groups because the other classes have better stuff,but are harder to use in pugs.

I'm lvl 52 in fractal now, do people use to pug higher levels?and even if they do, don't they only take specific classes?

[Blood.5607]

@Vespero.6180 said:

@Blood.5607 said:There is some condi renegade build that does relatively strong DPS, (16-18k dps), pretty sure its full vipers, but unsure of the traits/skill rotation... But it seems to be optimal

In comparison to my 31k warrior berserker (condition) or my elementalist, 16k looks like not worth it

Tbh, i don't even think its possible for a condi berserker to do 31k damage in a fractal group at all. It's not a top-tier DPS like Ele/Holo/DH are. I run condi berserker [qT] meta build in t4s, highest ive seen is 20k... And to properly answer your question... Yes i believe any of said classes pump out more DPS than what rev ever could

[ArthurDent.9538]

For fractals rev is always suboptimal because it has pretty much the lowest burst damage of all classes. However for casual runs which most people do it is serviceable, bringing good enough damage and some decent potential support and utility options.

[ArthurDent.9538]

@Blood.5607 said:

@Vespero.6180 said:

@Blood.5607 said:There is some condi renegade build that does relatively strong DPS, (16-18k dps), pretty sure its full vipers, but unsure of the traits/skill rotation... But it seems to be optimal

In comparison to my 31k warrior berserker (condition) or my elementalist, 16k looks like not worth it

Tbh, i don't even think its possible for a condi berserker to do 31k damage in a fractal group at all. It's not a top-tier DPS like Ele/Holo/DH are. I run condi berserker [qT] meta build in t4s, highest ive seen is 20k... And to properly answer your question... Yes i believe any of said classes pump out more DPS than what rev ever could

You two are thinking in different frames of reference. 31k is what you can get with full raid buffs on a dummy golem but in an actual encounter 20k is generally more realistic. Rev dummy golem is around the same as warrior but that doesn't matter because it doesn't bring the banners that warrior does and falls far behind good power builds on burst which is what matters in short fractal fights.

[Vulf.3098]

I play both dps Herald and Renegade in Fractals/CM and both are 100% good to play.

If people are going to try and follow a meta bible for fractals then your only comp should be 1 chrono, 1 Druid, 2 weavers 1 DH or Holo (or 1-2 of each really). Warrior isn't mandatory in Fractals or CM anymore and condi dps is overshadowed by power dps.

[Flauvious.6195]

People here are being a little harsh, condi renegade is raid meta and has very good dps. It does take a little time to ramp up though compared to like dragon hunter but it is absolutely fine. To bad kalla skills just feel like garbage to use.

[Vespero.6180]

@Vulf.3098 said:I play both dps Herald and Renegade in Fractals/CM and both are 100% good to play.

If people are going to try and follow a meta bible for fractals then your only comp should be 1 chrono, 1 Druid, 2 weavers 1 DH or Holo (or 1-2 of each really). Warrior isn't mandatory in Fractals or CM anymore and condi dps is overshadowed by power dps.

Finally some optimism! Could you elaborate more on the power herald you are running?

[Vulf.3098]

@Flauvious.6195 said:People here are being a little harsh, condi renegade is raid meta and has very good dps. It does take a little time to ramp up though compared to like dragon hunter but it is absolutely fine. To bad kalla skills just feel like garbage to use.

This is a thread about Fractals and Raid is literally the only place in all game modes where Rev has 1 decent meta build (I am excluding handkiter since mutlitple specs can do that now) on some bosses.

When you have phases where stuff needs to be bursted down within 5 seconds like anomalies on Arkk or have your damage go from 25k to 8k because of the island phase on Skovald this is not absolutely fine. Honestly if my static CM group didn't have a DH and a Holo I would be forced to play something else on that fractal. Condi has always been lower than power on fractals because of how fast things die.

Maybe someday Anet will give Rev a good power build.

@Vespero.6180 said:Finally some optimism! Could you elaborate more on the power herald you are running?

I do not run Herald as power because of how fast the damage falls off. For 100cm I go condi herald for the first 2 bosses mostly for the extra cc and boons my group may be lacking. For regular t4's it is fine to run a full zerker build for Herald or a Condi Renegade there really shouldn't be much of an issue tbh but don't expect to be pulling the numbers ele, holo and dh can.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

I got surprised enjoying playing magi renegade in fractals this week and it's sooooo much funnier than a druid or else .... it has as much utilities but the only problem is the HUGE energy cost of those utilities (F2 and F4 especially) it could change the whole meta in raids and fractals or at least not making the duo druid/chrono BIS and see other altenartives but it doesn't work as good as it could be .

But hey it won't stop me from playing it ... since i discovered some more fun.

[Quarktastic.1027]

I play condi renegade in T4s, and I've only been kicked once so far, but that was a guild group that decided to boot me without giving a reason. Maybe once I gear up my DH in ascended kit I'll retire my renegade from fractals...I dunno yet.

But yes, generally speaking, Power is better in fractals than condi. Power herald really can't compete with DH/weaver/holo though. I don't really know about holo in general, but weaver is very squishy and performs best in static groups. If you're in a pug as a weaver, you may have a hard time. DH would be my pick for most forgiving DPS build for fractals. It has plenty of survival tools, good burst damage even with weak group support, and has a few good group support options of its own.If you want to play revenant in T4 fractals, there's nothing stopping you. A lot of fractal pugs still seem to think that condi builds are king, so you will probably be just fine if you're running renegade.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Did the condi nerf really wreck Renegades that hard? Pre nerf I was usually first or second in damage done. That's a little disheartening if true!

[ArthurDent.9538]

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Did the condi nerf really wreck Renegades that hard? Pre nerf I was usually first or second in damage done. That's a little disheartening if true!

It really just depends on how strong your group's dps is. Condi builds do low damage at the start of the fight but once the stacks have been built up they do really good sustained dps. The problem is that in good groups with bursty power classes, the boss can generally be killed or phased a significant amount of time before the condi builds are able to reach their strong sustained damage. The recent balance patch didn't make much of a difference in this regard, this is just how it has always been except at the start of HoT when toughness scaling was insane so power builds could barely do any damage in fractals. With that being said it really isn't all that bad for revenant, most pug groups will accept it, most friend groups will also accept it, you are just extremely unlikely to see revenant in any record setting speed clear runs.

[Quarktastic.1027]

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Did the condi nerf really wreck Renegades that hard? Pre nerf I was usually first or second in damage done. That's a little disheartening if true!

Renegades went from second best condi DPS to roughly 6th in the pack. The biggest hit was the nerf to echoing eruption and lasting legacy, but those came before the condi patch. Revenants still got hit the hardest by the condi patch though. Most of our main condi applying traits had their stacks nerfed, including venom enhancement and abyssal chill. We used to have a pretty short ramp up time, but it feels significantly longer to me now. I find that I have to blow more skills to kill trash mobs as fast as I used to with just UA+mace 2/3.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Did the condi nerf really wreck Renegades that hard? Pre nerf I was usually first or second in damage done. That's a little disheartening if true!

Renegades went from second best condi DPS to roughly 6th in the pack. The biggest hit was the nerf to echoing eruption and lasting legacy, but those came before the condi patch. Revenants still got hit the hardest by the condi patch though. Most of our main condi applying traits had their stacks nerfed, including venom enhancement and abyssal chill. We used to have a pretty short ramp up time, but it feels significantly longer to me now. I find that I have to blow more skills to kill trash mobs as fast as I used to with just UA+mace 2/3.

Ah, perfect. Good to know all that time spent farming Viper's trinkets was worth it.