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Vanilla Player just got back to the game...what the hell is this damage?


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Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is fucked up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

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I'd like to start but I wouldn't know where to begin sorry - perhaps the others would be more eloquent at describing the changes that have happened over time since you left. Sounds like a rather long time ago though, if you were talking about tomes? I wasn't around at the time so I can't relate to the changes.

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I expected a full Toughness build to not die in 2 seconds, is this really ok? if so can you guys tell me what gear should we use now in WvW? and please do not say berserkers, i hope the game has not fallen that far, it reminds me of the vizunah noobs ^^ oldSchoolers will know what i mean ^^

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Soldier guardian is obsolete nowadays. Everyone runs either Minstrel, Cele or a stat blend to simulate Cele if you are zerging. A lot of the survivability of guardian comes from healing now since toughness doesn't matter as much as it used to since 3+ Rev's pressing 2 on hammer at the same time can 100%->0% you even if you have 4k armor.

Another change that has happened since you last played is condi getting insanely buffed a couple years ago (Recently got nerfed but it's still fairly powerful), burning/poison is a stackable condition now.

Answering your question on where the elite skill book is;;; It was removed for Firebrand spec (The Path of Fire one)

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@AllSins.3485 said:I expected a full Toughness build to not die in 2 seconds, is this really ok? if so can you guys tell me what gear should we use now in WvW? and please do not say berserkers, i hope the game has not fallen that far, it reminds me of the vizunah noobs ^^ oldSchoolers will know what i mean ^^

I never recommend anyone play in berserkers gear, unless they are experienced.

To put it simply, class balance has become a joke.

I was around during the old days, so I remember what it was like. Those times are long gone, so are many of those guilds and players. If you want to start playing again, treat it like a new game. Join a guild, check up on new guides and stuff.

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@X T D.6458 said:Um...did you just expect everything to be the same after 4 years? A lot of stuff changed.

OTOH, few MMORPGs have a power excursion this big in someone's absence. Pre-HoT to current is night and day, it doesn't even feel like the same game as far as combat mechanics are concerned.

Now, of course, if one likes super-fast-paced and initiative-decided/-won combat, it's awesome. If someone enjoyed the more attrition-focused pre-HoT combat, they'll feel super confused because they never knew the HoT power hike compared to which the current state is actually slower.

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@Carighan.6758 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Um...did you just expect everything to be the same after 4 years? A lot of stuff changed.

OTOH, few MMORPGs have a power excursion
this
big in someone's absence. Pre-HoT to current is night and day, it doesn't even feel like the same game as far as combat mechanics are concerned.

Now, of course, if one likes super-fast-paced and initiative-decided/-won combat, it's awesome. If someone enjoyed the more attrition-focused pre-HoT combat, they'll feel super confused because they never knew the HoT power hike compared to which the current state is actually
slower
.

I truly do love the combat system in this game, it is hands down the best of any game in my opinion. It is one of the reasons I have continued playing this for so long. Powercreep started long before HoT, it just introduced a lot of broken builds and the godawful boonshare/spam meta.

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@AllSins.3485 said:Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

Do you really think its a reasonable design that a player can survive the onslaught from the entire front line of a Zerg? That would suggest god-mode 1v1.

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@DemonSeed.3528 said:I'd like to start but I wouldn't know where to begin sorry - perhaps the others would be more eloquent at describing the changes that have happened over time since you left. Sounds like a rather long time ago though, if you were talking about tomes? I wasn't around at the time so I can't relate to the changes.

Let’s start from the release of HoT and it’s DBL and power creep

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@ThunderPanda.1872 said:

@"DemonSeed.3528" said:I'd like to start but I wouldn't know where to begin sorry - perhaps the others would be more eloquent at describing the changes that have happened over time since you left. Sounds like a rather long time ago though, if you were talking about tomes? I wasn't around at the time so I can't relate to the changes.

Let’s start from the release of HoT and it’s DBL and power creep

No, lets start with the rework of traits in preparation for HoT and elite specs.A lot of hard work before the game launched went out the window and the new "balance" became a series of hard to miss best-in-slot trait choices.Then we start rotating flavor-of-the month with power creep.Then sell our expansions with power creep.Then balance our classes on static dps sponges instead of PvP playtesting like at launch.

Five years later. shout guard has gone from essential, to essentially a redshirt

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@ThunderPanda.1872 said:

@DemonSeed.3528 said:I'd like to start but I wouldn't know where to begin sorry - perhaps the others would be more eloquent at describing the changes that have happened over time since you left. Sounds like a rather long time ago though, if you were talking about tomes? I wasn't around at the time so I can't relate to the changes.

Let’s start from the release of HoT and it’s DBL and power creepOr lets go even further back to the skill and attribute change patches. Classes got three maxed out trees to play with instead of trying to balance 5 of them with a limited amount of points, plus we got the new ferocity stat that was supposed to reduce crit damage, but instead upped it.

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@Vermillion.4061 said:Soldier guardian is obsolete nowadays. Everyone runs either Minstrel, Cele or a stat blend to simulate Cele if you are zerging. A lot of the survivability of guardian comes from healing now since toughness doesn't matter as much as it used to since 3+ Rev's pressing 2 on hammer at the same time can 100%->0% you even if you have 4k armor.

Another change that has happened since you last played is condi getting insanely buffed a couple years ago (Recently got nerfed but it's still fairly powerful), burning/poison is a stackable condition now.

Answering your question on where the elite skill book is;;; It was removed for Firebrand spec (The Path of Fire one)

lol no, the tomes were removed in mid 2015. They got replaced by other elite skills, a sigil, a shout etc. They just re-introduced it somewhat with the new game mechanics of the new Guardian Elite Specialisation called 'Firebrand'.

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It's called conditions, they ignore armor/toughness.

The first thing you need to do is adapt to the current meta. Back during vanilla when you were playing wvw was all about power. Things have changed in this regard. If every one were still running power, you'd still die faster than during vanilla but not as fast as against condi.

Soldier gear is obsolete because it's essentially useless against condi builds (except for the vitality). People run more diverse gear with healing power and toughness and vitality as well as a lot more condi cleanse and blocks.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@AllSins.3485 said:Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

Do you really think its a reasonable design that a player can survive the onslaught from the entire front line of a Zerg? That would suggest god-mode 1v1.

No it was not God mode in 1vs1 because you had no damage, that build was meant to be very tanky and support with Might and that skill that does not let players pass thought it with the staff, all the shouts (btw everyone seems to be immune to it now, maybe players have permanent Stability now, i have no idea) and the Elite Tome that gave you awesome healing Abilities, so toughness was the way to go, don't die and keep healing and buffing people.

It was horrible in 1vs1, so no it was not god mode, because you could only kill afk players.

Right now toughness seems completely useless in WvWvW it went from a must have Stat to a useless one.

Edit: I dont mind the games changing, i will buy the expansions, so i will just kill everyone in 2s as well so its ok :)

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frontline is firebrand, spellbreaker, with the odd druid.you'll need resistance aswell.damage is mostly scourage with some mirage/ele.melee is hammer renegade.toughness has been replaced with a boon + cleanse battle.stabs is up and down its not as bad as it was , but pirateship meta where two zergs cant engage because the first one in range gets blasted to bits is a thing now.

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@"Miko.4158" said:frontline is firebrand, spellbreaker, with the odd druid.you'll need resistance aswell.damage is mostly scourage with some mirage/ele.melee is hammer renegade.toughness has been replaced with a boon + cleanse battle.stabs is up and down its not as bad as it was , but pirateship meta where two zergs cant engage because the first one in range gets blasted to bits is a thing now.

Hahahaha this is so true man, Everytime my Zerg meets another one, half the zerg is dead before the "Clash" , i really think they need to tone down the damage, or make toughness do what it was suppose to do, mitigate damage, and i mean all damage, not only physical .

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theres not stat mitigation for condi but rolling it into toughness would make toughness to powerful.people whinge because you need power/precision/ferocity to play power, and just condi damage and duration to play condi.which leaves room for more vitality/boon duration.

resistance is the only hard counter availble, but it has a short uptime and is a utility.the counter to pirate is either winds of disenchantment or portal or a good tag zig zagging with a good frontlineyou cant boonball so much as boon corruption is a big thing.

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Yeah, condition damage is crazy for what i can see, it seems like the Zerg with most Scourge necros Wins, the amount of red circles on the floor is retarded, you cant take a step anywhere without being in a red circle, this is so different from back in the day, i really need to adapt ^^

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