Vanilla Player just got back to the game...what the hell is this damage?

[XenesisII.1540]

June 23rd 2015 - traits revamped, conditions now over 9000!October 23rd 2015 - broken elite and broken stat specs enter.September 22nd 2017 - more broken elite specs enter.

Welcome back, enjoy the one shot skills and combos and ebolaids conditions.

[powerbits.6235]

I agree with klipso, but i think druid is viable, right now ranged is good. The new engi and Mesmer specs are great for roaming. I like an old dd over the deadeye, but the deadeye has a lot of advantage over daredevils and warriors. Warrior isn't bad, it has trouble with those who can read movements. I think the firebrand is lacking, and those who are sticking it out with dragonhunter are only a little happy because of its pull. All in all, the firebrand needs its attacks tightened up a little for it to be really good, I'm hoping it gets its day. Anyway, walecum back.....

[Nuka Cola.8520]

that is what i've been saying since 2015, when the first expansion came out. back in 2012-2014 they were nerfing skills/builds that dealt too much damage, such as D/D thief, engi (magnet into nades barrage 1 shot cheese), war, terror nec etc. But look at what's happening now... mes can one shot on a power OR condi build. Nec melts you in seconds and so on. In 2013, they nerfed S/D thieves because they had too much damage and evades. In 2016, you have as much (if not more) evades AND MORE DAMAGE than when it was originally nerfed. Make up your mind wtf you wanna do, anet.

[AllSins.3485]

Yes the damage is completely Absurd right now, i noticed that people don't stack up to combo might anymore before a clash, why would they do it wen you can evaporate everyone with red circles on the ground?There is no point in having Condition removal in big fights because, you click the button and 2s latter you have full conditions again, does Arena net actually play test the game?Toughness is useless right now because the damage is out of control, if you have 3500 armor and a 7k hit turns to 6k it will still melt you in seconds.

Please tone down the damage like wow will do next expansion, their numbers went from a hit dealing 700k damage to 700.

Make Toughness useful in WvWvW again and have it mitigate something like 25% of the conditions damage max, so its not overpowered and conditions turns to useless again.

And please, i dont know how many more expansions you guys are planing, and i hope it will be many, no more skills that let you lose control of your character like Stuns, knockdowns, fears etc etc, we have enough of those already, with the damage the way it is right now, one of those skill hit = dead

Make WvWvW great again hahaha ^^

[Fluffball.8307]

While soldier's might not be ideal, it's almost certainly not why you're dying in zergs. You can survive just fine in the middle of a zerg in berserkers or even totally naked, you just need to have a decent build. If your zerg is outnumbered, everyone might die no matter what you do.

Soldier's is going to be pretty lame against roamers though, especially if you're using staff. Roamers are built specifically to kill things and nothing but your build and actively defending yourself are going to help; vit and tough are totally useless against roamers . If you can't seriously threaten them it's just a matter of seconds before you're toast because we can just free cast on you with no threat of reprisal. (Edit: And I would argue this has been true since launch. I remember maining thief back in 2012 and backstabbing people for like 16k or something stupid, you can't outheal that.)

[AllSins.3485]

@Fluffball.8307 said:While soldier's might not be ideal, it's almost certainly not why you're dying in zergs. You can survive just fine in the middle of a zerg in berserkers or even totally naked, you just need to have a decent build. If your zerg is outnumbered, everyone might die no matter what you do.

Soldier's is going to be pretty lame against roamers though, especially if you're using staff. Roamers are built specifically to kill things and nothing but your build and actively defending yourself are going to help; vit and tough are totally useless against roamers . If you can't seriously threaten them it's just a matter of seconds before you're toast because we can just free cast on you with no threat of reprisal. (Edit: And I would argue this has been true since launch. I remember maining thief back in 2012 and backstabbing people for like 16k or something stupid, you can't outheal that.)

Yes im playing in Groups and my group is 100% always outnumbered by A LOT, seems like seafarers rest dont WvW anymore, we are always with the outnumbered buff on, fighting zergs of 50/60 guys, its crazy, i feel bad for Seafarers commanders, wen i can find one, which is rare, they have like a group of 10 people and thats it....very hard job those guys have right now.

Well back in vanilla berserker thiefs could hit very hard on other berserker equipped Chars, it was impossible to do that damage to my guardian, the max a Thief backstabed my guardian for was around 3k, and that was nothing with all the healing/protection/regeneration/blocks guardians had, you dodged you healed, you buffed you healed, you used your virtues you healed, then you had shelter wich is a heal + block and you had that tome that let you spam very powerful heals while running... wen the book timed out, you started all over again, dodge, buff, etc etc etc you could survive for ages and run back to your group.

Now someone stuns you, you are dead in 2s, like you said roamers now have insane damage, and Scurge Necros are just stupid, you fight a team with 5+ necros and the ground turns Red, there's nowhere you can step that does not have a red circle.

im playing Daredevil with Staff now with bound, Vault and bandits defense it seems to avoid a LOT of damage, its kind of sad that my thief survivability is a lot better than my core guardian with almost 3500 armor.

By the way my Thief has 0 toughness on his gear, im running valkryrie armor with berzerker jewels because that is what i had on him, and it works great ^^

[ilmau.9781]

Welcome Back!

[Justine.6351]

Full exotic soldiers on guardian is 20k hp not 17k hp.

[Arctisavange.7261]

As someone who has played since launch and has commanded since melee train meta was rolling with power builds i have to say and agree with many others - yes condis are completely out of control to the extreme and these days going as a melee with DPS can be often suicidal. Sadly melee gameplay is a joke compared to what it used to be. Your main goal as a guardian now is to simply be the guy who heals, condi cleanses and provide boons that will be instantly ripped in every fight.

I loved WvW so much during the release, the melee training was top notch perfect and kept so many massive PvP lovers going but that time is sadly far gone due to anet middle fingering WvWrs yet again.The boonshare meta which existed before this condi boon strip pirate crap was fairly balanced in my opinion in terms of ranged and melee gameplay but yet again anet fucked that up again.

Anets WvW team is nothing but a joke. The amount of good people and many guilds that have left the game over the years is due to anet fucking it up again and again. Its fairly sad how a company like this simply cant hear the words of veteran WvWrs and simply listen them out what actualy made WvW the fun game mode that it was.

Anyway if you want to survive here as a newcomer then you better start making ranged DPS classes given its the easiest to play atm over melee classes. Playing a melee class these days is a charity to your blob for taking it into the bum with condis and revenant one shots while at the same time your ranged provides all the dmg and gets most of the loot.

[Hexalot.8194]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Miko.4158 said:melee is hammer renegade.

What is this alternate dimension WvW you are playing in, it intrigues me.

HaHa ! when I read his post I got a good laugh too. I don't ever see even one Renegade Rev in WvW nowadays... not one...

[AllSins.3485]

@Justine.6351 said:Full exotic soldiers on guardian is 20k hp not 17k hp.

No, its not, its not even close to 20k hp on a Guardian.

Edit: Maybe you are correct, my Jewelry is Power, Precision, Toughness, i have no idea why, i thought i was full Soldiers.

[Justine.6351]

@AllSins.3485 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:Full exotic soldiers on guardian is 20k hp not 17k hp.

No, its not, its not even close to 20k hp on a Guardian.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health#Base_health_by_professionhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute_combinations#Attribute_bonuses_at_level_80

11,645 base hp + 899*10 exotic soldier = 20,635 total hp

[AllSins.3485]

@Arctisavange.7261 said:As someone who has played since launch and has commanded since melee train meta was rolling with power builds i have to say and agree with many others - yes condis are completely out of control to the extreme and these days going as a melee with DPS can be often suicidal. Sadly melee gameplay is a joke compared to what it used to be. Your main goal as a guardian now is to simply be the guy who heals, condi cleanses and provide boons that will be instantly ripped in every fight.

I loved WvW so much during the release, the melee training was top notch perfect and kept so many massive PvP lovers going but that time is sadly far gone due to anet middle fingering WvWrs yet again.The boonshare meta which existed before this condi boon strip pirate crap was fairly balanced in my opinion in terms of ranged and melee gameplay but yet again anet kitten that up again.

Anets WvW team is nothing but a joke. The amount of good people and many guilds that have left the game over the years is due to anet kitten it up again and again. Its fairly sad how a company like this simply cant hear the words of veteran WvWrs and simply listen them out what actualy made WvW the fun game mode that it was.

Anyway if you want to survive here as a newcomer then you better start making ranged DPS classes given its the easiest to play atm over melee classes. Playing a melee class these days is a charity to your blob for taking it into the bum with condis and revenant one shots while at the same time your ranged provides all the dmg and gets most of the loot.

Yeah, WvWvW was a lot more fun back then, i loved those melee clashes, the stacking for Might combos, the stacking for combo condi removal on gates, no one stacks to combo anything anymore, all i see is red circles.

Right now im playing Daredevil, but as soon as i buy the POF expansion im switching to Necro, it seems to be the most viable Spec to group fights, in other words broken as hell.

[PierPiero.9142]

if u want to go vanilla, in my opinion the best classes are rangers, warrior , s/d thief ( not easy ) and pu mesmer . I think in this moment pu mesmer is the best vanilla build you can find at least for roaming . Mirage is better, ok , but vanilla Pu condi is still really valuable . with that you can win a lot of 1 vs 1 and if you get used to it, if you can not win you can run away many times .

[Dawdler.8521]

@AllSins.3485 said:

@"Fluffball.8307" said:While soldier's might not be ideal, it's almost certainly not why you're dying in zergs. You can survive just fine in the middle of a zerg in berserkers or even totally naked, you just need to have a decent build. If your zerg is outnumbered, everyone might die no matter what you do.

Soldier's is going to be pretty lame against roamers though, especially if you're using staff. Roamers are built specifically to kill things and nothing but your build and actively defending yourself are going to help; vit and tough are totally useless against roamers . If you can't seriously threaten them it's just a matter of seconds before you're toast because we can just free cast on you with no threat of reprisal. (Edit: And I would argue this has been true since launch. I remember maining thief back in 2012 and backstabbing people for like 16k or something stupid, you can't outheal that.)

Yes im playing in Groups and my group is 100% always outnumbered by A LOT, seems like seafarers rest dont WvW anymore, we are always with the outnumbered buff on, fighting zergs of 50/60 guys, its crazy, i feel bad for Seafarers commanders, wen i can find one, which is rare, they have like a group of 10 people and thats it....very hard job those guys have right now.Well then you just adapt. Both FSP and RS was running big zergs on friday while SFR had ~10-15 that I saw on the on the border I was on. But guess what - as a roamer, I'd rather meet 50 RS than those 15 SFR because everyone of them was pretty much roam/gank specs and unlike certain zerglings they knew what they doing. FSP couldnt control them in any way because our biggest "groups" outside the zerg was like... 2? Maybe 3 people. And 2 of those groups tops on the border. Rest just random roamers. They could take any objective they wanted as long as they avoided the zergs. It was rather fun to jump out of towers and shatter some of their glassier members but its not like it did much in the end lol.

[AllSins.3485]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@AllSins.3485 said:

@"Fluffball.8307" said:While soldier's might not be ideal, it's almost certainly not why you're dying in zergs. You can survive just fine in the middle of a zerg in berserkers or even totally naked, you just need to have a decent build. If your zerg is outnumbered, everyone might die no matter what you do.

Soldier's is going to be pretty lame against roamers though, especially if you're using staff. Roamers are built specifically to kill things and nothing but your build and actively defending yourself are going to help; vit and tough are totally useless against roamers . If you can't seriously threaten them it's just a matter of seconds before you're toast because we can just free cast on you with no threat of reprisal. (Edit: And I would argue this has been true since launch. I remember maining thief back in 2012 and backstabbing people for like 16k or something stupid, you can't outheal that.)

Yes im playing in Groups and my group is 100% always outnumbered by A LOT, seems like seafarers rest dont WvW anymore, we are always with the outnumbered buff on, fighting zergs of 50/60 guys, its crazy, i feel bad for Seafarers commanders, wen i can find one, which is rare, they have like a group of 10 people and thats it....very hard job those guys have right now.Well then you just adapt. Both FSP and RS was running big zergs on friday while SFR had ~10-15 that I saw on the on the border I was on. But guess what - as a roamer, I'd rather meet 50 RS than those 15 SFR because everyone of them was pretty much roam/gank specs and unlike certain zerglings they knew what they doing. FSP couldnt control them in any way because our biggest "groups" outside the zerg was like... 2? Maybe 3 people. And 2 of those groups tops on the border. Rest just random roamers. They could take any objective they wanted as long as they avoided the zergs. It was rather fun to jump out of towers and shatter some of their glassier members but its not like it did much in the end lol.

Yeah i was one of those 10/15 members of Seafarers rest, i was with my Guardian then changed to Daredevil with staff/shortbow, we were doing the best we could, but anytime that HUGE blue blob came we got completely evaporated hahahah

[Burnfall.9573]

'Vanilla Player just got back to the game...what the hell is this damage?'

What's left of wvw, that's all

[DeceiverX.8361]

@"AllSins.3485" said:Hey guys, i played the betas of this game, and for almost a year after it released , i only played WvWvW so i have no experience in PvE or Spvp.Now my problem is this, i got into my Guardian ( core build ) i have full exotic Soldier Gear, thats 2,138 toughness , 3349 armor and 17k hp, this guy back in the day could survive Zergs, i mean wen i encountered the Enemy Train i was able to run back to my Train without dieing, for a looooooong time, now every 1vs1 skills me in 2 seconds, and im not even kidding...What the hell happened to the damage in this game? It was completely impossible to kill a support Guardian 1vs1 back in the day, i would not kill you, but you would not kill me for sure.Another thing Where is the Elite skill book? the one with Awesome healing?

What the hell happened to this game? WvWvW was awesome in Seafarers Rest with Zadrots, Red Guard etc etc so many awesome guilds, now i cant find 1 single WvWvW guild from back then and the game is kitten up, really killing people in full toughness gear in 2 seconds? what the hell Arena net....

Expansions powercreeped the game.Really, really, really hard.ANet does not understand gameplay design for anything except PvE raids and does not design anything around PvP environments, and shows they're unwilling to do so. Basically, everything they balance for now is based on DPS benchmarks being roughly even for optimized PvE play, and abilities are designed for "What's cool" instead of "What's fair."

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Profession balance is absolutely horrifyingly bad since HoT (the first expansion).

Few of the changes they they really needed to make since back then have been made, and the game-state has totally deteriorated, which caused everyone to basically quit from frustration.

Welcome to Build Wars 2, where balance integrity is made up and Skill doesn't matter.

[Oozo.7856]

@X T D.6458 said:Um...did you just expect everything to be the same after 4 years? A lot of stuff changed.

Yeah. For the worse. ;)

[Oozo.7856]

Basically vitality and toughness is good for not being one shot out of stealth, so you have some time to react before you are two shot. The only real defense are invulnerability frames (evasion, block, blinds, true invuln) and mobility (ports).

edit: having high health and toughness is not enough to guarantee you won't be one shot out of stealth, however. I have been one shot several times while in full dire.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

Vit/toughness isn't gonna help you against a mes or zerk thief burst from stealth. Thief backstab on its own is 17k+, then steal etc. Mes is like 30k from stealth.

Shows how anet cares. This kind of things shouldn't be possible since 2013. In what kind of mmo can you 100%-0% in 1sec? Chitt ones. Indie garbage with no budget to balance the game. For some reason, Anet is in the same boat.

[Justine.6351]

@Nuka Cola.8520 said:Vit/toughness isn't gonna help you against a mes or zerk thief burst from stealth. Thief backstab on its own is 17k+, then steal etc. Mes is like 30k from stealth.

Shows how anet cares. This kind of things shouldn't be possible since 2013. In what kind of mmo can you 100%-0% in 1sec? Chitt ones. Indie garbage with no budget to balance the game. For some reason, Anet is in the same boat.

Lmao, I run full berserk without an ounce of damage reduction besides when I activate protection, yeah... its not passive like so many options we have in game atm. 15k back stabs happen on occasion. Mesmers oneshot me, when I don't have protection up...

Idk how vita/toughness bots get oneshot.

[X T D.6458]

@Oozo.7856 said:

@X T D.6458 said:Um...did you just expect everything to be the same after 4 years? A lot of stuff changed.

Yeah. For the worse. ;)

In terms of class balance, yes. I can accept the condi crap, because at least there are lots of counters. But I really hate the stealth and cc spam fest. And really sick of immobilize stacking.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Unpredictable ranged/OOC chained stealth into massive bursts is probably one of the biggest issues in the game.

Stealth + burst is fine; D/D power thief is fair to play against because it's predictable and you see it coming. Even the old school mesmer GS mirror blade combo is easy to negate since mirror blade's animations aren't made invisible, so one good dodge roll negates the entire insta-nuke combo. Things like Guardian's Aegis and every professions' auto-proc or cc deflect innately hard-counter it, too, and even if you don't run any of that, after Steal + CnD, stunbreak and dodge roll out of the backstab, turn around, and the thief's combo is ruined and he's probably out of a utility skill or two himselve. The OHKO D/P variant is the same as it's always been (actually slightly weaker now since they nerfed Assassin's Signet); it's just it took five years for people to realize how absolutely horrifying busted D/P stealth burst and OOC stealth burst mesmer are. The current burst D/P stealth DrD is basically exactly the same as Signet SA D/P stealth camping from 2012. Actually, I'd argue the old SA build was strictly better.

Now my years of demanding for SA, stealth, and Shadow Shot nerfs seem to make sense -_-

Problem is that people run these builds because not much else is really effective; once a fight starts pretty much everything runs perma prot/spammed negation to ridiculous extremes these days.

[morrolan.9608]

@AllSins.3485 said:I expected a full Toughness build to not die in 2 seconds, is this really ok? if so can you guys tell me what gear should we use now in WvW? and please do not say berserkers, i hope the game has not fallen that far, it reminds me of the vizunah noobs ^^ oldSchoolers will know what i mean ^^

Condi damage is far stronger now and bypasses toughness.