Scourge is too strong

[NaXorb.9732]

Between all the boon corruption, instant shade skills, near-immunity to conditions, huge condi bombs that can hardly be cleansed (thanks to even more conditions that cover the damaging ones) Scourges are still too strong in SPvP and needs to be adressed. Fighting them on point (or anywhere for that matter) is nearly impossible.Specifically i think sand shade skills should have at least slight cast time, a bit higher cooldowns, and their condi bombs need to be toned down.

[reikken.4961]

Path of Corruption + Nefarious Favor combo is too much boon corruption. like 3x as much as was possible from the trait pre-scourgeDamage on shades is unreactabletoo much visual clutter, makes it hard to see what's going on

from another post I made:

I've posted my suggestions before, and I'll post them here again. Make the damage part of shade skills delayed so that you can see it and maybe try to avoid it, and make path of corruption only function in shroud. Also tone down the visual clutter. When a scourge is on a point, you can't actually see what's happening. That combined with shades having no tell is the source of people's frustrations, even moreso than the raw power of the class. It feels like you're just melting to a thousand conditions without the scourge doing much of anything.

[Crinn.7864]

Meh my biggest grief with scourge is that every single scourge skill applies cripple. Even builds running massive amounts of cripple remove can't get free of that crap.

Also Sand Savant was probably a bad idea from the start.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

Scourge is so strong on point but falls off badly against range and mobile opponents off point.

Any patch that nerfs to make the scourge less of a threat on point should also look to buff the scourge's gap closers and range more.

[Kaiser.9873]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Scourge is so strong on point but falls off badly against range and mobile opponents off point.

Any patch that nerfs to make the scourge less of a threat on point should also look to buff the scourge's gap closers and range more.

This! Tired of nerfs to things without any corresponding buffs to anything else.

[Crinn.7864]

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:Scourge is so strong on point but falls off badly against range and mobile opponents off point.

Any patch that nerfs to make the scourge less of a threat on point should also look to buff the scourge's gap closers and range more.

This! Tired of nerfs to things without any corresponding buffs to anything else.

Why should a class soo enormously strong that it defines the entire meta be given "compensation"

[hotfreak.5907]

Wow. We need more of these posts. Can't have enough of them, really. Should always start a new thread, don't ever post in one of the existing ones. So useful!

[Aslakh.3072]

As EremiteAngel said the Scourge like any proffesion has its strengths and weakenesses, something that should be preserved. From what I can tell of pvp it seems pretty obvious that the main problem is the radius of certain skills. Ghastly Breach and Sand Savant have a radius of 300 instead of the normal aoe radius of 240 and its covering too much of the point. Additionaly Sand Savant breaks the target cap with a permanent 10 targets hit between you and the shade in wvw. Ghastly Breach should be toned down to a normal 240 while Sand Savant Should not exist allowing the devs to balance around only one shade style and should be replaced by a real support gm but thats a case for a different thread.

With the shade skills then on a 180 aoe radius people could try to cover an entire point but it would require multiple casts, only last 10 seconds and have a 45 second recharge. Additionly having smaller aoe skills would make them much easier to avoid. This wouldnt even be a large nerf to scourge overall as in pve you often dont use sand savant except in support builds that would be better off with a real support gm anyway.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Kaiser.9873 said:This! Tired of nerfs to things without any corresponding buffs to anything else.

That isn't how balance is done. Just because something is RIGHTLY nerfed. That doesn't mean something else should be buffed. Even if it gets RIGHTLY nerfed. That doesnt mean its suddenly going to be kicked out the META and considered weak. It just means it has been put back in line with the rest of the classes. When you have a class that keep whole nodes no go limits due to the huge AoE of continued Condition spamming and boon corruption it NEEDS to be toned down and NO it doesnt need buffs elsewhere to compensate.

[Methuselah.4376]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Kaiser.9873 said:

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:Scourge is so strong on point but falls off badly against range and mobile opponents off point.

Any patch that nerfs to make the scourge less of a threat on point should also look to buff the scourge's gap closers and range more.

This! Tired of nerfs to things without any corresponding buffs to anything else.

Why should a class soo enormously strong that it defines the entire meta be given "compensation"

You are kidding with this right? So a class that is easily bursted down from range, that has no active defenses outside of barrier (no blocks, invul, perma evades or stealth), that is very limited in playstyle (area control, outside of which its power diminishes greatly), that relies on a class resource that is set to 0 at the beginning of the match and can be difficult to maintain depending on how the fight is going, requires support class to survive and is typically the first to be focused, should be nerfed because some people are amoebas and can't stay out of range of a scourge's area of affect nor time their skills? So because you can't kill scourge like you would kill core necro (i.e. requiring no skill nor forethought and just facerolling them) you would rather cry NERF! than develop some skill?

I have seen skilled players take down scourges like they were nothing. Why? Because they baited the dessert shroud, they got out of the Ghastly Breach (which surprisingly a lot of people don't), they CC'ed them to death, they timed their cleanses/evades AND not equipping as many boons as they can muster when they face a scourge (honestly, when I play scourge and see some fool piling boons and coming at me, I think "lunch time" )...Not to mention power longbow ranger and deadeye pretty much hard counter scourge. Before the bug fixes, I would agree with you that scourge was too OP as if you stepped in their shades, you were dead due to the multiple hits/condi stacks. Now you have time to disengage, to cleanse...to simply move out of it.

Scourge is very good at what it does, but once you figure out how to avoid it, to not play to its strengths (staying in shades, piling boons and so on) it is not OMG OP NERFZ NEEDED. Think back to when DHs were the meta...they really where cancers, mostly due to their pulls and constant blocks. What happened then? People adapted (even pre nerfs) and learned not to rush blindly to a point where a DH was standing on. Heck, I even had a DH killer build on power reaper once I learned how DHs played (much trial and error I assure you).

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@NaXorb.9732 said:Between all the boon corruption, instant shade skills, near-immunity to conditions, huge condi bombs that can hardly be cleansed (thanks to even more conditions that cover the damaging ones) Scourges are still too strong in SPvP and needs to be adressed. Fighting them on point (or anywhere for that matter) is nearly impossible.Specifically i think sand shade skills should have at least slight cast time, a bit higher cooldowns, and their condi bombs need to be toned down.

No they don't, get on a ranger or deadeye, you'll never have an issue with scourges again

For the life of me, I cannot understand why players are so headstrong about getting off their current class and getting on one that can easily deal with scourges. It takes less than 7 seconds to kill a scourge outright with a soulbeast even if the scourge has all the healing thrown at them in the world.

The only change scourge needs is some sort of defense against bursty range classes. The speed at which they die to them is staggering.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:Scourge is so strong on point but falls off badly against range and mobile opponents off point.

Any patch that nerfs to make the scourge less of a threat on point should also look to buff the scourge's gap closers and range more.

Bro....any ranged build has to go a constant flow of barriers/heal in addition to 1-2 perma harassers attached to your ass while you try to stop the scourge from melting your entire team...any build falls to ranged dmg...any dmg, maybe in bronze you see Rambo scourges..but above that you only see scourges with a healing druid or firebrand attached to their ass so there is no "ranged kill scourge non-sense"

[Zero.3871]

and here we are again...scourge has obvious weak points that people dont use. now people like OP cry here for nerfing scourges strenghtes without any compensate. the result would be a class only with weaknesses. in which world is THAT balancing???

scourge already get MASSIVE nerfes. but people came here to necro forum and cry,-50 % dmg isnt a nerf, its a buff?!?!?!? and continue to flame... this game is a mess because people without any skill compensate their skillessness with flaming already limited classes to kill them completely, AND anet is delivering in every balance patch what retards crying for...

but why not! yeeah, lets nerf radius of shades and all other aoes to 0,0000001 and recharge time to 5 min. that would solve all the problems! and then reduce the mobility on necros to 0. that its not allowed for them to move! after that, delete path of corruption, or wait! its better directly to delete the whole class, than no one will ever have problems with it again. YES! that we should do! woohooo... (-.-)

[Egorum.9506]

How many of the top 100 are on scourge again? If it's so OP and easy to win with, it should be at least a majority of them right?

[Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921]

Given that Necro lost there shroud form, it makes sense they would be this powerful (No longer have two life bars, plus barrier got a nerf). How long has Necro been a joke? They were poor for Meta, and this is the first time they've found a place to excel. I mean would you rather always have one profession always be the top. Mesmers got no nerfs and by far are way better at condi bombs vs the Scourge. I don't PvP but every damn nerf ends up making Necros lose out on PVE meta. Until Anet seperates the balance of professions by game type this will only result in Scourge being pushed out of Meta again.

[Methuselah.4376]

@Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921 said:No longer have two life bars, plus barrier got a nerf

I'll have to disagree with you here. Barrier got a buff. It lasts for 5 seconds which is almost as long as if you have chained all your barrier skills before the patch in order for them to last. Now, you pop F5 or Sand Flare and it lasts long enough to be of decent defense. Before, with the degen, you're barriers where far more fragile as attacks + degen made them pretty redundant.

[Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921]

Are you talking about the first nerf that increased their degeneration rate which is why they had to fix it, from making barrier almost completely useless?

[Crinn.7864]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:For the life of me, I cannot understand why players are so headstrong about getting off their current class and getting on one that can easily deal with scourges.

Yes we should all just reroll to 2 classes because of scourge. Rather than you know, having a healthy and diverse meta.

Oh and nevermind that Soulbeast and Deadeye are worthless against everything but scourge which means you won't actually kill the enemy scourge because you'll get counterpressured and rekt by the Scourges teammates. Players have adapted to Scourge, players have discovered the best way to handle a Scourge is to bring your own Scourge, and players have learned that anything other than the 3 builds that can coexist with scourge is no longer worth playing.

Oh and I hope you realize that Scourge is itself a ranged class. Or have you not noticed that Manifest Shade, scepter, and staff are all ranged?

[ElderNewt.5840]

Try ranging us.. stun locking us.We are no more stronger than other classes.. our counter classes are just more obvious when you know the counters to scourges

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Hopefully scourge gets hammered in the next patch as they never get it just right and thereby place all forms of necro into the spot thats just right for the masses.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Well scourge was designed to be a support spec, so maybe just remove all the condies and damage, and buff healing/barrier/whatever else?

[Yannir.4132]

A simple solution would be to give Path of Corruption and Unending Corruption 10 s ICD's in PvP only. Doesn't affect core necro or reaper, as core has a 15 s CD in Dark Path anyway, and Reaper doesn't really pick Curses anymore. Those are really the 2 traits causing most of the issues.

[Justine.6351]

Its bad enough in wvw trying to fight the scourge trains but I cannot imagine what its like in competitive pvp.Scourge is literally the joke "make marks pulse!".

[Lahmia.2193]

@"Justine.6351" said:Its bad enough in wvw trying to fight the scourge trains but I cannot imagine what its like in competitive pvp.Scourge is literally the joke "make marks pulse!".

I mean take into account many scourges have been replaced by revenants doing 10k+ damage on CoR, your complaints are somewhat outdated.

[Justine.6351]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:Its bad enough in wvw trying to fight the scourge trains but I cannot imagine what its like in competitive pvp.Scourge is literally the joke "make marks pulse!".

I mean take into account many scourges have been replaced by revenants doing 10k+ damage on CoR, your complaints are somewhat outdated.

There are like 4 scourges to every hammer rev in wvw. And of those hammer revs there are like 1 in 5 that arnt rallybots because it is a glass cannon. Scourges enable hammer revs with the boon corruptions.