Tie tickets earned to wxp earned instead of activity bar and pips

[EremiteAngel.9765]

As per title. This will remove afk pip farming and make it necessary for players to be actively involved to earn wxp and by extension, tickets.

This will also remove the time gated stuff and remove cap limits and rewards more active players.

We currently get WvW wxp for both capturing and defending objectives. So it rewards both parties.Perhaps removing repair from giving wxp and counting as a defense contribution is necessary too

Numbers can be reviewed but as an example, perhaps 5000 wxp to 100 tickets.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I think the problem is that it turns WvW into k-training (or rather, ticket-training, with karma as a side bonus). The reason that participation was added to the game was to allow roamers, zergers, defenders, etc opportunity to earn tickets even if they took time to siege, repair, etc. If tickets are determined by wxp, then every second you spend not earning wxp is wasted.

[Justine.6351]

People are saying that afk farming isn't a problem anymore so idk. I don't have to fight ques so I don't care.

[Fluffball.8307]

The only players that benefit are the mindless zergers. All skill groups, roamers, scouts, defenders, etc. get screwed over by that.

[Voltekka.2375]

No. We have enough night- early morning german zergs that avoid fights unless they outnumber you 3:1. They will earn their tickets, while you will be chasing to kill them for wxp once you have enough players to make em run away.

[Klipso.8653]

Will I still be able to farm centaurs without worrying about my participation bar?

[zhonnika.1784]

No, not a great idea. However, removing participation/wxp from repairing is something that should happen. The people sitting around afk/repairing/supply draining are more of a PITA than anyone afk for pips at spawn.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I don't see how the afk pip farmers are such a big problem that it would justify such an overhaul to the reward system.

[intox.6347]

No, but that particip from repair should be removed, its not on building siege, so it shouldnt be on repairing... u go to SM where 5 parazites burning supply on trebbed wall.

[Solo.6873]

To many holes for this to be abused by populated servers or groups.I do think the pip system needs to be better but

this is not de way

[hanabal lecter.2495]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:As per title. This will remove afk pip farming and make it necessary for players to be actively involved to earn wxp and by extension, tickets.

This will also remove the time gated stuff and remove cap limits and rewards more active players.

We currently get WvW wxp for both capturing and defending objectives. So it rewards both parties.Perhaps removing repair from giving wxp and counting as a defense contribution is necessary too

Numbers can be reviewed but as an example, perhaps 5000 wxp to 100 tickets.

i like this idea but not to replace but as an addition with some changes

*drop the 100 tickets to 10 tickets, but make it repeatable.

*make it so you get those bonus 10 tickets for lets say every either X amount of wxp gained, or Xamount of sentires and camps taken,this way roamers can benefit from it too and not just blobs.

i should add it can be repeatable but only a certain amount per day to prevent heavy k-trains.

[Solo.6873]

@hanabal lecter.2495 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:As per title. This will remove afk pip farming and make it necessary for players to be actively involved to earn wxp and by extension, tickets.

This will also remove the time gated stuff and remove cap limits and rewards more active players.

We currently get WvW wxp for both capturing and defending objectives. So it rewards both parties.Perhaps removing repair from giving wxp and counting as a defense contribution is necessary too

Numbers can be reviewed but as an example, perhaps 5000 wxp to 100 tickets.

i like this idea but not to replace but as an addition with some changes

*drop the 100 tickets to 10 tickets, but make it repeatable.

*make it so you get those bonus 10 tickets for lets say every either X amount of wxp gained, or Xamount of sentires and camps taken,this way roamers can benefit from it too and not just blobs.

i should add it can be repeatable but only a certain amount per day to prevent heavy k-trains.

It still encourages K-trainsOne commander gets done for the day, another one in the group takes his place..It's would turn places like EBG into EoTM really really quick

[EremiteAngel.9765]

Actually, is k train worst than afk pup farming?At least those who want fights will know there are places to get fights with all these k trains going on.Imo k trains would be better than all the spawn camps flipping or repair and afk pip farming.

At least activity and participation will be higher with more places to look for fights.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

At least those who want fights will know there are places to get fights with all these k trains going on.

Based on what we've seen in the past, k-training ends up with opposing commanders coordinating to avoid fights, so they can trade keeps or whatever. Additionally, as mentioned above, if WXP determines tickets, then the disincentive to do anything else is too strong: instead of being mildly inconvenient to scout, defend, repair, build to defend later, etc, it slows down the tix/hour.

The Participation system has all sorts of issues, but there are good reasons for its existence. Any replacement or fix has to consider the benefits it brings (and the costs it avoids).

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

At least those who want fights will know there are places to get fights with all these k trains going on.

Based on what we've seen in the past, k-training ends up with opposing commanders coordinating to

avoid

fights, so they can trade keeps or whatever. Additionally, as mentioned above, if WXP determines tickets, then the disincentive to do anything else is too strong: instead of being mildly inconvenient to scout, defend, repair, build to defend later, etc, it slows down the tix/hour.

The

Participation

system has all sorts of issues, but there are good reasons for its existence. Any replacement or fix has to consider the benefits it brings (and the costs it avoids).

I understand the concerns raised on this thread and summarized very well by yourself in this post.

EOTM showed full well what happens when K-trains go on and all 3 servers rotate keeps and towers for karma and exp without fighting.But let us not forget that not every commander does that. Some go hunting for these k-train blobs.

Personally I believe that most WvW commanders are mostly above that and are looking for good fights rather than K-train for exp/tickets.Just yesterday, I've seen commanders running half way around the map to join fights rather than take simpler objectives nearer to their spawn.Will that change if we tie tickets to WvW exp? I honestly don't think so.

As for less WXP and by extension tickets for doing 'lesser' things like scouting, defending etc, it has always been this way even before pips came out. Less WXP for scouts and defenders and roamers. And yet, we still do our thing. I've been a roamer and scout for much of my WvW life and this won't change even if they add tickets to WXP. Rewards are not priority to dedicated players who will still do what they enjoy. Before tickets came out, WvW rewards were kitten compared to other modes and yet we still WvW and scout and roamer most of our playing time.

Ultimately, every system can possibility be 'gamed' in a certain way. It really depends on the 'integrity' or 'mindset' of the majority of players. Personally I believe that fights are more important to most WvW commanders and vets than the farming. The main aim of tying tickets to WXP is to remove the afk pip farming. Will this suddenly make all the real WvW players enter k-train mode? I really can't believe that. If farming was that important to us, all of us would have been in EOTM from way back before.

Imagine PvE tickets farming groups start grouping up under a commander tag for k-training and they will get smashed by real WvW commanders and vets.I strongly believe that most of us who have been dedicated to WvW for a long time have shown we are not there for the rewards. If material rewards is our main aim, WvW is a bad place compared to PvE to begin with. We are there for fights.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Tie tickets earned to wxp earned instead of activity bar and pips

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I strongly believe that most of us who have been dedicated to WvW for a long time have shown we are not there for the rewards.

Which is it? If your argument depends on "not in it for the rewards", then why change the system? The status quo works and benefits those who contribute at variety of levels (including guild, zerg|mob, roaming PUGs, and solo). Changing to WXP changes that calculus and changes the incentives to favor people trading objectives.

---

Again, there's a reason that ANet created Participation; it wasn't done arbitrarily. It's clear that you (as well as others) have thought a lot about the problems of Participation; I just think you also need to give more thought into the problems that a WXP-based system would add.

And it can't be based just on hoping for the best behavior among die-hard fans of the mode; there will always be people looking to eek every last ticket out of any loophole. Just look at the creativity that went into "inventing" AB multi-loot or F42 farming or farming EotM.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

I did mention I'm proposing the change to remove afk pip farming and increase actual participation. My focus was never on the rewards itself.If you even read my first post first paragraph you'll know what I was driving at XD