Holosmith: Holographic Shockwave radius is too large for a launch!

[Arheundel.6451]

Dear Devs ! Any idea why we have a launch skill in game with 15s CD and 600 range when even an elite launch has 3x th CD and only 450 radius?

Please be reasonable and cut the radius to 450 min or increase the CD by 20s or so....600 radius for a spammable launch it's simply too much, thank you!4

[whoknocks.4935]

A skill that is so obvious to dodge that the character almost autododge it tho.

People still complain of holosmith damn, one of the few balanced specs released and they wanna destroy it at any cost.

There are bigger problems than a super easy to dodge skill visible even if the holo is stealthed up.

Learn to play before complain.

[Alatar.7364]

@whoknocks.4935 said:A skill that is so obvious to dodge that the character almost autododge it tho.

People still complain of holosmith kitten, one of the few balanced specs released and they wanna destroy it at any cost.

There are bigger problems than a super easy to dodge skill visible even if the holo is stealthed up.

Learn to play before complain.

That would be fine if there were not like 4 other Skills that have to be Dodged in order to survive, all with a very repetitive Cooldown. By the time a player will have to dodge Two other insane DMG dealing skills, you'll have like One dodge Up.For example If a Thiefs burst is Dodged once, you will have plenty of time and no need to dodge again, while plenty of Holos skills have each potential dmg of Thiefs burst therefore not suffering from missing literally even half of them.I wish they were not CCing through walls, stones and basically all other obstructions at least.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Eh. I've seen worse.

[Morwath.9817]

@whoknocks.4935 said:A skill that is so obvious to dodge that the character almost autododge it tho.

People still complain of holosmith kitten, one of the few balanced specs released and they wanna destroy it at any cost.

There are bigger problems than a super easy to dodge skill visible even if the holo is stealthed up.

Learn to play before complain.

Ooo, because Quaggan has enough energy to dodge all five enemies AoE skills one after another.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:A skill that is so obvious to dodge that the character almost autododge it tho.

People still complain of holosmith kitten, one of the few balanced specs released and they wanna destroy it at any cost.

There are bigger problems than a super easy to dodge skill visible even if the holo is stealthed up.

Learn to play before complain.I wish they were not CCing through walls, stones and basically all other obstructions at least.

That's actually quite consistent with engineer's design. I use flamethrower to shoot through walls in some PvE situations.

@Morwath.9817 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:A skill that is so obvious to dodge that the character almost autododge it tho.

People still complain of holosmith kitten, one of the few balanced specs released and they wanna destroy it at any cost.

There are bigger problems than a super easy to dodge skill visible even if the holo is stealthed up.

Learn to play before complain.

Ooo, because Quaggan has enough energy to dodge all five enemies AoE skills one after another.

Technically, there are only two AoE skills in Photon Forge -- Corona Burst and Holographic Shockwave (both with relatively high CD, both add a significant amount of heat). The rest are melee or single-target 600 range skills.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:A skill that is so obvious to dodge that the character almost autododge it tho.

People still complain of holosmith kitten, one of the few balanced specs released and they wanna destroy it at any cost.

There are bigger problems than a super easy to dodge skill visible even if the holo is stealthed up.

Learn to play before complain.

That would be fine if there were not like 4 other Skills that have to be Dodged in order to survive, all with a very repetitive Cooldown. By the time a player will have to dodge Two other insane DMG dealing skills, you'll have like One dodge Up.For example If a Thiefs burst is Dodged once, you will have plenty of time and no need to dodge again, while plenty of Holos skills have each potential dmg of Thiefs burst therefore not suffering from missing literally even half of them.

I mean, if you facetank a holo and you're not a warrior... then yeah, you probably deserve the beatdown. Otherwise, I dunno, move away from them? I hope kiting is not a foreign idea to you in the age of the scourge.

When I'm in a holo v. holo battle and I just turned off PF from heat, I simply leap/move away from the holo in PF, which hamstrings their potential damage.

[Menyus.4610]

One of the fel balanced specs HAHAHAHAAHAH, best joke ever your "balanced" spec deals 7-11k while invulnerable and dodgerolling, in pvp 4-8k, shockwave radious not even big but also buggy af, because it is a sphere radious not a circle, so it launches enemies above you, also the so "balanced" class basically killed the purpose of thief, does evrything better and deals aoe -.-

[miriforst.1290]

If you have steel nerves and want to show the holo what for an alternative to dodging it if you are intent of meleeing him down is to use the shockwave nature of the smash.

If you stack right on top of the holo when he smashes it wont hit you. Of course that means exposing yourself to the followup still, but if the shockwave itself is a big problem its atleast free resource wise. Remember that the holo cant move while using the shockwave.

Ill be honest and say that i personally wouldn't rely on it since the area is very small, but i would like to see more people try using this trick since ive had it happen unintentionally a lot of times.

It is a very strange ability and often people who don't quite understand the nature of it. Since it moves outwards in an expanding circle ive had plenty of people dodge roll outwards to just get hit by it on the catchup. Ive also had plenty of mid range characters move sideway instead of kiting it directly. Also if you are a thief a shadow shot will safely pass you through it and blind the followup.

Actually increasing the safe radius of the skill by just a little bit might be an interesting way to create counterplay. Remember it got a massive heat cost though which is the true cost of the skill and not the cd, and the high damage is from the always crit nature of it.

[whoknocks.4935]

@"Menyus.4610" said:One of the fel balanced specs HAHAHAHAAHAH, best joke ever your "balanced" spec deals 7-11k while invulnerable and dodgerolling, in pvp 4-8k, shockwave radious not even big but also buggy af, because it is a sphere radious not a circle, so it launches enemies above you, also the so "balanced" class basically killed the purpose of thief, does evrything better and deals aoe -.-

If a noob plays for the first time engi and holosmith he won't faceroll anybody and he will just die constantly.It is not a noob friendly class that you spam every skill you have and win (scourge).It is a high risk high reward class.

If you kite away and don't stand still like a noob in melee range what holo can do?Thieves can rekt holo interrupting pretty much everything.Power classes played well like soulbeast or spellbreaker can rekt holo in 4 skills after they make you waste your 2 invulns in no time.Wanna talk about condis? Condis rekt holo as well because so vulnerable to conditions.

If a holo caught you off guard and destroy you in seconds that's your problem, and thieves, weavers and power mirages destroy you in literally 1 second without counter play. So wanna say that classes are broken too?

Try holo go ahead and spam all the skills randomly like a scourge can and see what happens stealthing up random or invuln when it is no needed.

@Morwath.9817 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:A skill that is so obvious to dodge that the character almost autododge it tho.

People still complain of holosmith kitten, one of the few balanced specs released and they wanna destroy it at any cost.

There are bigger problems than a super easy to dodge skill visible even if the holo is stealthed up.

Learn to play before complain.

Ooo, because Quaggan has enough energy to dodge all five enemies AoE skills one after another.

What is that even mean??? If you are at mid and stay in the middle of the control point and five people focus you that's not a holosmith problem lolOr you mean 5 holos? In which contest? WvW? Because all I see in both sPvP and WvW just hordes of scourges nonstop, mirages, and not many holos.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

The only issue you could have vs Holosmith is the spammable stab on Corona Burst ... without that stab , holosmith has only elixir S to defend himself .... SO if you don't have CC to lock down an engi , use immob ... at least he'll stop hitting you for a moment .

It's not that hard to be honest once you've played it , you know how to open in it .

@Alatar.7364 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:A skill that is so obvious to dodge that the character almost autododge it tho.

People still complain of holosmith kitten, one of the few balanced specs released and they wanna destroy it at any cost.

There are bigger problems than a super easy to dodge skill visible even if the holo is stealthed up.

Learn to play before complain.

That would be fine if there were not like 4 other Skills that have to be Dodged in order to survive, all with a very repetitive Cooldown. By the time a player will have to dodge Two other insane DMG dealing skills, you'll have like One dodge Up.For example If a Thiefs burst is Dodged once, you will have plenty of time and no need to dodge again, while plenty of Holos skills have each potential dmg of Thiefs burst therefore not suffering from missing literally even half of them.

I don't agree here ... S/D thief has great sustain damage... it's kinda the same if not worse (since he's dodging)

By the way , do'nt forget holo dmg is a burst (several skills in few secondes) u can't effectively burst down someone if you don't have several skills that hurts a little.ANd another argue : holosmith is almost the only counter to support FB for now (with revenant but condi spamming kills it) since they are weak to power dmg. So think twice before nerfing holo (since FB got buffed last patch instead of being nerfed)

[Alatar.7364]

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:The only issue you could have vs Holosmith is the spammable stab on Corona Burst ... without that stab , holosmith has only elixir S to defend himself .... SO if you don't have CC to lock down an engi , use immob ... at least he'll stop hitting you for a moment .

It's not that hard to be honest once you've played it , you know how to open in it .

@Alatar.7364 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:A skill that is so obvious to dodge that the character almost autododge it tho.

People still complain of holosmith kitten, one of the few balanced specs released and they wanna destroy it at any cost.

There are bigger problems than a super easy to dodge skill visible even if the holo is stealthed up.

Learn to play before complain.

That would be fine if there were not like 4 other Skills that have to be Dodged in order to survive, all with a very repetitive Cooldown. By the time a player will have to dodge Two other insane DMG dealing skills, you'll have like One dodge Up.For example If a Thiefs burst is Dodged once, you will have plenty of time and no need to dodge again, while plenty of Holos skills have each potential dmg of Thiefs burst therefore not suffering from missing literally even half of them.

I don't agree here ... S/D thief has great sustain damage... it's kinda the same if not worse (since he's dodging)

By the way , do'nt forget holo dmg is a burst (several skills in few secondes) u can't effectively burst down someone if you don't have several skills that hurts a little.ANd another argue : holosmith is almost the only counter to support FB for now (with revenant but condi spamming kills it) since they are weak to power dmg. So think twice before nerfing holo (since FB got buffed last patch instead of being nerfed)

S/D Thiefs burst dmg is nowhere, nowhere, near Holos consistent and easily repetitive dmg, literally nowhere near. Thief would have to land both Steals and Several Larcenous Strikes to deal same dmg as Holo can do in two skills, being AoE at that.The Thiefs skill that hits you while evading is weaker than first skill of AA chain. While when Holo dodges and you are not even following him, you will get hit for up to 5k by mines. So Holo hits for 5k during Evade without player even following and Thief hits for 1k (with critics) while having to stay on target with a telegraphed skill.

[Morwath.9817]

@"whoknocks.4935" said:

What is that even mean??? If you are at mid and stay in the middle of the control point and five people focus you that's not a holosmith problem lolOr you mean 5 holos? In which contest? WvW? Because all I see in both sPvP and WvW just hordes of scourges nonstop, mirages, and not many holos.

Quaggan wanted to say that "dodge this" argument shouldn't be used for AoE skills with big radius, as they make group fights as stupid as Scrooge McDuck himself.

[whoknocks.4935]

@Alatar.7364 said:

S/D Thiefs burst dmg is nowhere, nowhere, near Holos consistent and easily repetitive dmg, literally nowhere near. Thief would have to land both Steals and Several Larcenous Strikes to deal same dmg as Holo can do in two skills, being AoE at that.The Thiefs skill that hits you while evading is weaker than first skill of AA chain. While when Holo dodges and you are not even following him, you will get hit for up to 5k by mines. So Holo hits for 5k during Evade without player even following and Thief hits for 1k (with critics) while having to stay on target with a telegraphed skill.

What the hell are you saying? The bombs dropped are well visible on the floor and if you just walk on them the noob is you.And I don't even run the bomb explosive trait version because you have disangage problems if you fail your combo.

[Alatar.7364]

@Morwath.9817 said:

@"whoknocks.4935" said:

What is that even mean??? If you are at mid and stay in the middle of the control point and five people focus you that's not a holosmith problem lolOr you mean 5 holos? In which contest? WvW? Because all I see in both sPvP and WvW just hordes of scourges nonstop, mirages, and not many holos.

Quaggan wanted to say that "dodge this" argument shouldn't be used for AoE skills with big radius, as they make group fights as stupid as Scrooge McDuck himself.

Wait, are you telling me that 3 people getting one-shoted from 50% HP to 0% by half-a-map radius high Dmg hard CC skill that had no Energy from 10 other AoE spams, is not OK?

[whoknocks.4935]

@Morwath.9817 said:

@"whoknocks.4935" said:

What is that even mean??? If you are at mid and stay in the middle of the control point and five people focus you that's not a holosmith problem lolOr you mean 5 holos? In which contest? WvW? Because all I see in both sPvP and WvW just hordes of scourges nonstop, mirages, and not many holos.

Quaggan wanted to say that "dodge this" argument shouldn't be used for AoE skills with big radius, as they make group fights as stupid as Scrooge McDuck himself.

I get it but if you see the enemy comp before the match begins and you see and holo, you expect it from happening at mid team fights or not?Same as scourges, you know the enemy has 2 scourges? You don't jump into mid careless and die in the shades, you maybe go close-far or stay at range.

Difference is scourge constantly spam those skills nonstop and you can't never get close melee to a good scourge, holo when leaves photon forge is pretty vulnerable.

[Alatar.7364]

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

S/D Thiefs burst dmg is nowhere, nowhere, near Holos consistent and easily repetitive dmg, literally nowhere near. Thief would have to land both Steals and Several Larcenous Strikes to deal same dmg as Holo can do in two skills, being AoE at that.The Thiefs skill that hits you while evading is

weaker

than first skill of AA chain. While when Holo dodges and you are not even following him, you will get hit for up to 5k by mines. So Holo hits for 5k during Evade without player even following and Thief hits for 1k (with critics) while having to stay on target with a telegraphed skill.

What the hell are you saying? The bombs dropped are well visible on the floor and if you just walk on them the noob is you.And I don't even run the bomb explosive trait version because you have disangage problems if you fail your combo.

1) Nobody is talking about you2) Read my post again and quote exactly the part of the post where I say I or anyone walks in to the Mines. Do it now please.

[whoknocks.4935]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:The only issue you could have vs Holosmith is the spammable stab on Corona Burst ... without that stab , holosmith has only elixir S to defend himself .... SO if you don't have CC to lock down an engi , use immob ... at least he'll stop hitting you for a moment .

It's not that hard to be honest once you've played it , you know how to open in it .

@Alatar.7364 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:A skill that is so obvious to dodge that the character almost autododge it tho.

People still complain of holosmith kitten, one of the few balanced specs released and they wanna destroy it at any cost.

There are bigger problems than a super easy to dodge skill visible even if the holo is stealthed up.

Learn to play before complain.

That would be fine if there were not like 4 other Skills that have to be Dodged in order to survive, all with a very repetitive Cooldown. By the time a player will have to dodge Two other insane DMG dealing skills, you'll have like One dodge Up.For example If a Thiefs burst is Dodged once, you will have plenty of time and no need to dodge again, while plenty of Holos skills have each potential dmg of Thiefs burst therefore not suffering from missing literally even half of them.

I don't agree here ... S/D thief has great sustain damage... it's kinda the same if not worse (since he's dodging)

By the way , do'nt forget holo dmg is a burst (several skills in few secondes) u can't effectively burst down someone if you don't have several skills that hurts a little.ANd another argue : holosmith is almost the only counter to support FB for now (with revenant but condi spamming kills it) since they are weak to power dmg. So think twice before nerfing holo (since FB got buffed last patch instead of being nerfed)

S/D Thiefs burst dmg is nowhere, nowhere, near Holos consistent and easily repetitive dmg, literally nowhere near. Thief would have to land both Steals and Several Larcenous Strikes to deal same dmg as Holo can do in two skills, being AoE at that.The Thiefs skill that hits you while evading is

weaker

than first skill of AA chain.

~~ While when Holo dodges and you are not even following him, you will get hit for up to 5k by mines. So Holo hits for 5k during Evade without player even following~~

and Thief hits for 1k (with critics) while having to stay on target with a telegraphed skill.

You get for 5k without even following the holo haha... are you dreaming? How can a bomb dropped on the floor with a specific small radius hit you for 5k if you are not walking into it???

[Alatar.7364]

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:The only issue you could have vs Holosmith is the spammable stab on Corona Burst ... without that stab , holosmith has only elixir S to defend himself .... SO if you don't have CC to lock down an engi , use immob ... at least he'll stop hitting you for a moment .

It's not that hard to be honest once you've played it , you know how to open in it .

@Alatar.7364 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:A skill that is so obvious to dodge that the character almost autododge it tho.

People still complain of holosmith kitten, one of the few balanced specs released and they wanna destroy it at any cost.

There are bigger problems than a super easy to dodge skill visible even if the holo is stealthed up.

Learn to play before complain.

That would be fine if there were not like 4 other Skills that have to be Dodged in order to survive, all with a very repetitive Cooldown. By the time a player will have to dodge Two other insane DMG dealing skills, you'll have like One dodge Up.For example If a Thiefs burst is Dodged once, you will have plenty of time and no need to dodge again, while plenty of Holos skills have each potential dmg of Thiefs burst therefore not suffering from missing literally even half of them.

I don't agree here ... S/D thief has great sustain damage... it's kinda the same if not worse (since he's dodging)

By the way , do'nt forget holo dmg is a burst (several skills in few secondes) u can't effectively burst down someone if you don't have several skills that hurts a little.ANd another argue : holosmith is almost the only counter to support FB for now (with revenant but condi spamming kills it) since they are weak to power dmg. So think twice before nerfing holo (since FB got buffed last patch instead of being nerfed)

S/D Thiefs burst dmg is nowhere, nowhere, near Holos consistent and easily repetitive dmg, literally nowhere near. Thief would have to land both Steals and Several Larcenous Strikes to deal same dmg as Holo can do in two skills, being AoE at that.The Thiefs skill that hits you while evading is

weaker

than first skill of AA chain.

~~ While when Holo dodges and you are not even following him, you will get hit for up to 5k by mines. So Holo hits for 5k during Evade without player even following~~

and Thief hits for 1k (with critics) while having to stay on target with a telegraphed skill.

You get for 5k without even following the holo haha... are you dreaming? How can a bomb dropped on the floor with a specific small radius hit you for 5k if you are not walking into it???

So now that you quoted the part where I clearly stated you don't even have to walk in to the mines, undermining your Post, I can explain it to you.-> Because if you are not moving and Holo random dodges next to you, you are going to get hit by 2 mines. So, logic, you will not avoid them unless you dodge his dodge which is yet another skill you must dodge or take near-gg dmg.I could get over the CC and AoE stuff, but nobody of right mind could possibly deny a small DMG nerf is at Hand, because right now Holo is not High Risk High Reward, but Mediocre Risk Insanely High Reward.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

I mean I don't understand why ppl complaining ... you're using a dodge to make dmg ... it's high risk - high reward

But the fact being killed fast while being CC'd (since stunbreak aren't all an evade or an invul) must be frustrating . But hey men , that's how you're being usefull has a dps class that's not thief (or condi ... or condi thief) in PvP .

The only problem for me ... is corona burst (traited with stab) being spamable (6 sec cd) but it's only 1 stack of stab ... a duration nerf could be a thing on the stab

[Alatar.7364]

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:I mean I don't understand why ppl complaining ... you're using a dodge to make dmg ... it's high risk - high reward

But the fact being killed fast while being CC'd (since stunbreak aren't all an evade or an invul) must be frustrating . But hey men , that's how you're being usefull has a dps class that's not thief (or condi ... or condi thief) in PvP .

The only problem for me ... is corona burst (traited with stab) being spamable (6 sec cd) but it's only 1 stack of stab ... a duration nerf could be a thing on the stab

I'd Agree with this, but then Holo has 6s (2x3sec) of Invulnerability which can be enough to gain back the Dodge, especially when Vigor is mostly in effect by that time. Yet, since Holo/Engi can't do anything during Elixir S, then at least it's not unfair, it's just not that risky.

[corey.6451]

Dont forget about the auto att range

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:I mean I don't understand why ppl complaining ... you're using a dodge to make dmg ... it's high risk - high reward

But the fact being killed fast while being CC'd (since stunbreak aren't all an evade or an invul) must be frustrating . But hey men , that's how you're being usefull has a dps class that's not thief (or condi ... or condi thief) in PvP .

The only problem for me ... is corona burst (traited with stab) being spamable (6 sec cd) but it's only 1 stack of stab ... a duration nerf could be a thing on the stab

I'd Agree with this, but then Holo has 6s (2x3sec) of Invulnerability which can be enough to gain back the Dodge, especially when Vigor is mostly in effect by that time. Yet, since Holo/Engi can't do anything during Elixir S, then at least it's not unfair, it's just not that risky.

don't forget it's a 5v5 game wise ... it way easier to survive 1v1 or 2v2 than a team fight mid at 4v4 ... Elixir S (or double with passive) isn't enough for him to survive ! but that's how warrior works with defy pain or last stance ... u try to proc it early and wait till it's over. Disengage when it up then rengage right after the random dodge at the end of it (noobs do that a lot)

[Rezzet.3614]

man i cant wait to try this infinite heat generating quad damage scaling holosmith forge QQers complain about

[Ario.8964]

Only problem with holo is how much damage the mines do and that's not even a holo problem. That's a core problem. The mine damage should be nerfed and people probably shouldn't be able to dodge while in S for damage (this is all coming from an engi main and many other engis I've talked to agree with me) but if you touch anything else you will kill holo in pvp. The only thing keeping it playable is it's high damage and cc.

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

@Ario.8964 said:Only problem with holo is how much damage the mines do and that's not even a holo problem. That's a core problem. The mine damage should be nerfed and people probably shouldn't be able to dodge while in S for damage (this is all coming from an engi main and many other engis I've talked to agree with me) but if you touch anything else you will kill holo in pvp. The only thing keeping it playable is it's high damage and cc.

dodging while elixir is a bad thing anyway ... you would want to do that only if you're desperate and u'll die for sure the time u left elixir S (or during it... to condies)