[Feedback] Meteor Shower

[Jski.6180]

Meteor becomes easier to balanced with my ideal (less meteor but bigger aoe and more targets) by letting anet more effective changes the numbers with out over nerfing or under-nerfing. If meteor stays super random as it is its unable to move the numbers in a meaningful way with out comply destroy the skill use or making it super op at times.

Less meteor but bigger aoe and more targets would be the best thing for Meteor as a skill in gw2 then any thing else you could tack on.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

@Jski.6180The problem with your solution would that it would make MS significanlty stronger against small targets and at the same time it would decrease the potential damage against large targets by a lot - so it would mostly just shift the problem zone from large targets to all targets or if they'd decrease the overall damage at the same time it would make the skill weak alltogether. It would pretty much be just a stronger / larger version of Glyph of Storms in fire attunement with a tiny bit of random fluctuation in the damage output.Overall that would be fine and definitly easier to balance but it would take away too much from Staff Ele I think. I can only talk for myself but I really like MS as a Skill that doesn't always do optimal damage and I'd like to keep those big moments when MS does his optimal damage and you just watch your enemies burn and enjoy the big numbers. But since we can cast MS every 30s it doesn't really feel that special especially when you have to watch your meteors crash into your opponents and not do any damage because they hit instantly after another meteor...

Another thing I want to add.Many have mentioned that MS really only needed a nerf in high tier content like Raids and maybe T4 Fractals and I agree. Those types of content are also the only ones where having MS ready every 30s matters which is why my nerf would only really affect the areas where it has to. In open world content your barely ever need to cast MS every 30s, against Tequatl? The damage phase never lasts 30s. Against TT Worms? If the damage phase lasts longer than 30s then the problem isn't one MS more or less but rather a problem with the mechanics. Against Shatterer? Arguably you can cast more than one MS against Shatterer in one phase but then you might miss your jump timing. Against all the HoT Bosses? Good luck getting one whole meteor (full 9s) on those bosses (except AB, but AB Damage phase doesn't allow for two MS anyway as far as I remember).So why exactly does everyone dislike higher CD for MS so much when it actually doesn't really change anything in Open World and Fractals (for the most part, in some fractals it might matter but only in T4 for which the nerf is intended anyway)?

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

I could live with longer cool downs, even longer time between hits, if the cast time got reduced - or moving did not break the channeling...

Yes, a single meteor hit does a lot of damage. But running through a sea of necro marks, which take no time at all, also does a lot of damage - and you are eaten by all the conditions. Rev hammer? Insane damage and quick to cast. Mesmers have all kind of quick, hard hitting skills, are very mobile and have a bazillion of illusions to hide behind...

seriously, compared with those, an easily averted MS doesn't look that bad...

[Jski.6180]

@TwilightSoul.9048 said:@Jski.6180The problem with your solution would that it would make MS significanlty stronger against small targets and at the same time it would decrease the potential damage against large targets by a lot - so it would mostly just shift the problem zone from large targets to all targets or if they'd decrease the overall damage at the same time it would make the skill weak alltogether. It would pretty much be just a stronger / larger version of Glyph of Storms in fire attunement with a tiny bit of random fluctuation in the damage output.Overall that would be fine and definitly easier to balance but it would take away too much from Staff Ele I think. I can only talk for myself but I really like MS as a Skill that doesn't always do optimal damage and I'd like to keep those big moments when MS does his optimal damage and you just watch your enemies burn and enjoy the big numbers. But since we can cast MS every 30s it doesn't really feel that special especially when you have to watch your meteors crash into your opponents and not do any damage because they hit instantly after another meteor...

Another thing I want to add.Many have mentioned that MS really only needed a nerf in high tier content like Raids and maybe T4 Fractals and I agree. Those types of content are also the only ones where having MS ready every 30s matters which is why my nerf would only really affect the areas where it has to. In open world content your barely ever need to cast MS every 30s, against Tequatl? The damage phase never lasts 30s. Against TT Worms? If the damage phase lasts longer than 30s then the problem isn't one MS more or less but rather a problem with the mechanics. Against Shatterer? Arguably you can cast more than one MS against Shatterer in one phase but then you might miss your jump timing. Against all the HoT Bosses? Good luck getting one whole meteor (full 9s) on those bosses (except AB, but AB Damage phase doesn't allow for two MS anyway as far as I remember).So why exactly does everyone dislike higher CD for MS so much when it actually doesn't really change anything in Open World and Fractals (for the most part, in some fractals it might matter but only in T4 for which the nerf is intended anyway)?

That sounds like a fix to anet who likes to make large body mobs but do not like the large body worst off then small.

Staff ele is a control class not a pure dmg class scpter is that wepon so making ms more deadly if your in it for players fills the roll better then a bust dmg roll that ppl are trying to push staff ele into. With this fix you can make the cd lower you can up the effects of the skill you can even drop the cast time by removing the rng burst dmg that makes it op and making it more avg. dmg you can make it into a real skill and not just a rotation you throw on the ground and hope it dose something good.

[Feanor.2358]

Heh. The control capabilities of Staff are pretty limited. Frozen Ground is probably the only one skill worth mentioning. Sure, there's also Gust, Static Field and earth 4/5, but they are all conditional, they depend on correct placement and/or enemy movement, whereas FG is unconditional - you place it and it works on targets inside the zone.

On the offensive front, however, there's a LOT more. Lava Font, MS, Fireball, Eruption, Ice Spike. Tons of AOEs with heavy damage. And that's not even counting the dual attacks. I'd definitely say staff is better suited for damage than control.

[Jski.6180]

@"Feanor.2358" said:Heh. The control capabilities of Staff are pretty limited. Frozen Ground is probably the only one skill worth mentioning. Sure, there's also Gust, Static Field and earth 4/5, but they are all conditional, they depend on correct placement and/or enemy movement, whereas FG is unconditional - you place it and it works on targets inside the zone.

On the offensive front, however, there's a LOT more. Lava Font, MS, Fireball, Eruption, Ice Spike. Tons of AOEs with heavy damage. And that's not even counting the dual attacks. I'd definitely say staff is better suited for damage than control.

The though is to keep ppl from wanting to go into places and making them pay if they do. Dmg with pAoE is a type of control its just the dmg must be high enofe and non rng enofe to do this. All though mobs do not seem to have ai to "fear" these things so i am not sure if that works well with pve.

[Feanor.2358]

What you speak of isn't control, at least not in the terms of the game mechanic. It doesn't matter what a skill does, as long as it can put a circle on the ground you can use it to "control" the enemy in zerg fights. It doesn't mean all ranged aoe weapons are control ones, it only means you can keep players away by throwing raw damage at them. Who would have though, huh?

[TwilightSoul.9048]

I want to remind everyone that this Balance discussion is about PvE as Meteor Shower does definitly not need a nerf in WvW and has not needed one. This thread is supposed to be about the Feb '17 change (which only affected PvE) and how it could be replaced by possibly better options.

WvW was not affected by the Feb '17 change and shouldn't be affected by any of the proposed changes either, although a higher Cooldown on MS wouldn't affect the Skill in WvW at all.

[Feanor.2358]

Actually it was affected, it reduced MS efficiency against siege.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

Which is pretty much insignificant since MS is likely gonna drive whoever is operating the siege, away. And even so, a longer Cooldown on MS wouldn't affect Ele in WvW either.

[Chicken Fro.6953]

I haven't read all of the comments, but I am very much in favor of increasing the cooldown in exchange for the reversed, higher damage. Not to sound like a GW1 junkie, but that's how it worked in the old game: risk of high cooldown for high reward.

[TSOdinson.2518]

@Wentworth.6901 said:

@reikken.4961 said:

@"Guizao.4167" said:Scepter will net you faster DPS and big bursts but you know, smash the keyboard.

Also keep in mind that staff is the most effective against big hitboxes and isn't "meant" for small hitboxes, but you can still use it.

ele doesn't have a weapon swap

The point is if that is your situation just use scepter. Its not like you have to use staff.

Can scepter/dagger work for small target bosses?

[Ringlin.1863]

@Chicken Fro.6953 said:I haven't read all of the comments, but I am very much in favor of increasing the cooldown in exchange for the reversed, higher damage. Not to sound like a GW1 junkie, but that's how it worked in the old game: risk of high cooldown for high reward.

I hate the nerf and would be all right with this. I feel hit hard in solo pve with a nerf aimed at endgame-raiders.

I'm working my way through the LW series and HoT, and there are a LOT of boss fights with mechanics tough on a core elementalist. In many of those, the old meteor shower was a lifesaver, as a solid opener or as a skill cast during the occasional pause in boss attacks. It can still serve those roles, but its damage is reduced with no compensating change.

Those fights aren't just harder now, they're less fun. A well-timed meteor shower was the perfect solution when facing certain mechanics. Now we have one less tool in our box, or at least, the one we have works less well for those situations.

I'm glad people say it's still fine in PvP and narrows the dps gap in raiding. But those aren't where I miss the old meteor shower.

[CETheLucid.3964]

@Justine.6351 said:Meteor Shower should rupt foes struck. Seriously this skill should be epic. And I don't even play ele !

Fun fact: It used to do that in GW1, it would cause knock-down. I wouldn't go as far as to give it knock-down again but if they added some small duration daze to it per strike to give it some added utility I wouldn't mind the DPS nerf as much as I do now. They took a lot of damage away and didn't give anything for it.

[DanteZero.9736]

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@Justine.6351 said:Meteor Shower should rupt foes struck. Seriously this skill should be epic. And I don't even play ele !

Fun fact: It used to do that in GW1, it would cause knock-down. I wouldn't go as far as to give it knock-down again but if they added some small duration daze to it per strike to give it some added utility I wouldn't mind the DPS nerf as much as I do now. They took a lot of damage away and didn't give anything for it.

I recall the original meteor shower had a 2 second knockdown once every 3 seconds (it dropped a single meteor every 3 seconds over the course of 9 seconds). It also had the longest cooldown at 60 seconds and longest cast time at 5 seconds too. I imagine if GW2 meteor shower had any CC component, Anet would at least increase the cooldown.

[CETheLucid.3964]

@DanteZero.9736 said:

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@Justine.6351 said:Meteor Shower should rupt foes struck. Seriously this skill should be epic. And I don't even play ele !

Fun fact: It used to do that in GW1, it would cause knock-down. I wouldn't go as far as to give it knock-down again but if they added some small duration daze to it per strike to give it some added utility I wouldn't mind the DPS nerf as much as I do now. They took a lot of damage away and didn't give anything for it.

I recall the original meteor shower had a 2 second knockdown once every 3 seconds (it dropped a single meteor every 3 seconds over the course of 9 seconds). It also had the longest cooldown at 60 seconds and longest cast time at 5 seconds too. I imagine if GW2 meteor shower had any CC component, Anet would at least increase the cooldown.

I'm not advocating for 2 second knockdowns or the GW1 skill as it was. I was commenting that Meteor Shower in GW1 did have an interrupt component. I could have been more clear on that.

If they were to give it some interrupt love (which would make the DPS nerf tolerable) I was thinking 1/4-1/2 a second daze per strike. Gives it some slight utility for CC bars and makes it a better skill for lesser enemies. It would be great in PvP and WvW. I think it would feel better and more epic as a whole.

It would be something rather than a flat nerf it didn't really deserve.

[MyPuppy.8970]

@Justine.6351 said:Meteor Shower should rupt foes struck. Seriously this skill should be epic. And I don't even play ele !

I think it is how it was supposed to work in Alpha version, like old GW1 MS.

[Justine.6351]

@MyPuppy.8970 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:Meteor Shower should rupt foes struck. Seriously this skill should be epic. And I don't even play ele !

I think it is how it was supposed to work in Alpha version, like old GW1 MS.

Seems so.

[Gustaff.6581]

Can someone show me a chart of the old ele dps, i want to see what skills are the ones which provide the most dps in a rotation.

Because if meteor shower is still acceptable right now, then why not buff another skill? because in this moment why i will chose a elementalist for dps if a warrior can do better?

[Feanor.2358]

@Conqueror.3682 said:Can someone show me a chart of the old ele dps, i want to see what skills are the ones which provide the most dps in a rotation.

Because if meteor shower is still acceptable right now, then why not buff another skill? because in this moment why i will chose a elementalist for dps if a warrior can do better?

The major contributors are still the same. Meteor Shower used to account for more, now Lava Font is the primary source with MS close behind. Before that we had Tempest where Overload Air was the primary source, then MS and Lava Font again. I don't remember where Overload Fire was on this chart.

[Jski.6180]

@Justine.6351 said:

@MyPuppy.8970 said:

@Justine.6351 said:Meteor Shower should rupt foes struck. Seriously this skill should be epic. And I don't even play ele !

I think it is how it was supposed to work in Alpha version, like old GW1 MS.

Seems so.

I love to see a more then one channel version of meteor shower. Where it seems you get some of the spell every channel.

[DanteZero.9736]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@MyPuppy.8970 said:

@Justine.6351 said:Meteor Shower should rupt foes struck. Seriously this skill should be epic. And I don't even play ele !

I think it is how it was supposed to work in Alpha version, like old GW1 MS.

Seems so.

I love to see a more then one channel version of meteor shower. Where it seems you get some of the spell every channel.

Judging by the length in the preview video, I'd say that version of meteor shower lasts about 5-6 seconds which equates to a 5-6 second channel. On one hand, I love the animation and particle effects that come from it, on the other hand, I'd hate to be stuck in the same spot for 5-6 seconds.