Wilderness survival line need a few nerf.

[corey.6451]

The current druid top tier pvp metahere is why1Rugged growth = 559+283 from regent. these have a 100% up time btw.now that is 862+136 from signet of renewal. That is 938 health per second.2Troll Unguent, this heal skill pare with lesser muddy terrain and wilderness terrain cleanse 4 conditions, and heal for 1209 hp per second. and because the heal pulse for 8 second, the real cool down for this skill on the healing side is actually just 12 second.Now to balance this.1the regent from rugged growth should've a 10 second cool down, or reduce the heal by halve, or rework it to give and 15% damage reduce when you have protection.2lesser muddy terrain aoe effect should reduce from 10 second to 5, and remove 1 condition when it proc wilderness knowledge. immobilise reduce from 3 second to 2 second.3__troll unguent. Up the cool down from 25 second to 30 second.And please anet if you're reading this, fix our Bambi charge skill.

[AEFA.9035]

Was just running power concentration healing power earlier with: wilderness testing empathic bond as GM, nature magic, and druids with rune of melandru. Hahaha. Condi don't last as long can out heal cancermancer burst.

Are you one of the person I 1v1 by any chance today? Lol. My name in game is Treesus second E has accent though which I can't do with my phone sadly.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

lol

i c whut u did thar

[Arheundel.6451]

@corey.6451 said:The current druid top tier pvp metahere is why1Rugged growth = 559+283 from regent. these have a 100% up time btw.now that is 862+136 from signet of renewal. That is 938 health per second.2Troll Unguent, this heal skill pare with lesser muddy terrain and wilderness terrain cleanse 4 conditions, and heal for 1209 hp per second. and because the heal pulse for 8 second, the real cool down for this skill on the healing side is actually just 12 second.Now to balance this.1the regent from rugged growth should've a 10 second cool down, or reduce the heal by halve, or rework it to give and 15% damage reduce when you have protection.2lesser muddy terrain aoe effect should reduce from 10 second to 5, and remove 1 condition when it proc wilderness knowledge. immobilise reduce from 3 second to 2 second.3__troll unguent. Up the cool down from 25 second to 30 second.And please anet if you're reading this, fix our Bambi charge skill.

Rugged Growth and Troll Unguent are core elements and touching core elements to nerf a single elite is not an adopted strategy for Anet ( luckily )...here seen that you like to go around hating druid all over the forum....wanna nerf druid for real without gutting spec and others?

-Druidic Clarity moved to Master, replaces Verdant Etching...BOOM..druid nerfed..now bring back the 2 condis for glyph and we're done*

[Obtena.7952]

@corey.6451 said:The current druid top tier pvp metahere is why1Rugged growth = 559+283 from regent. these have a 100% up time btw.now that is 862+136 from signet of renewal. That is 938 health per second.2Troll Unguent, this heal skill pare with lesser muddy terrain and wilderness terrain cleanse 4 conditions, and heal for 1209 hp per second. and because the heal pulse for 8 second, the real cool down for this skill on the healing side is actually just 12 second.Now to balance this.1the regent from rugged growth should've a 10 second cool down, or reduce the heal by halve, or rework it to give and 15% damage reduce when you have protection.2lesser muddy terrain aoe effect should reduce from 10 second to 5, and remove 1 condition when it proc wilderness knowledge. immobilise reduce from 3 second to 2 second.3__troll unguent. Up the cool down from 25 second to 30 second.And please anet if you're reading this, fix our Bambi charge skill.

Yes, has nothing to do with being good at the class ... It's all about OP traits :frown:

[Arheundel.6451]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"corey.6451" said:The current druid top tier pvp metahere is why1

Rugged growth = 559+283 from regent. these have a 100% up time btw.now that is 862+136 from signet of renewal. That is 938 health per second.2

Troll Unguent, this heal skill pare with lesser muddy terrain and wilderness terrain cleanse 4 conditions, and heal for 1209 hp per second. and because the heal pulse for 8 second, the real cool down for this skill on the healing side is actually just 12 second.Now to balance this.1

the regent from rugged growth should've a 10 second cool down, or reduce the heal by halve, or rework it to give and 15% damage reduce when you have protection.2

lesser muddy terrain aoe effect should reduce from 10 second to 5, and remove 1 condition when it proc wilderness knowledge. immobilise reduce from 3 second to 2 second.3__troll unguent. Up the cool down from 25 second to 30 second.And please anet if you're reading this, fix our Bambi charge skill.

Yes, has nothing to do with being good at the class ... It's all about OP traits :frown:

It's also true that many "good" rangers appeared after druid introduction...a rather odd coincidence won't you agree?

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@"Arheundel.6451" said:It's also true that many "good" rangers appeared after druid introduction...a rather odd coincidence won't you agree?

Like many "good" Scourges/Mirages/Spellbreakers/Firebrands/Deadeyes and Holos appeared after PoF. So ... do you go on these class forums and explain to them what traits should they nerf? or all this posts in last week about nerfing the Druid (rlly I don't know since when he is the Mighty OP) are jokes ?

[Arheundel.6451]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:It's also true that many "good" rangers appeared after druid introduction...a rather odd coincidence won't you agree?

Like many "good" Scourges/Mirages/Spellbreakers/Firebrands/Deadeyes and Holos appeared after PoF. So ... do you go on these class forums and explain to them what traits should they nerf? or all this posts in last week about nerfing the Druid (rlly I don't know since when he is the Mighty OP) are jokes ?

Do you think I would get a different answer than the one I got here?I am used with being vilified for making these nerf thread about any profession, as I try to suggest to introduce some sort of balanced gameplay...people jump at my throat, players don't want to lose their safety nets aka...training wheels build

[Obtena.7952]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"corey.6451" said:The current druid top tier pvp metahere is why1

Rugged growth = 559+283 from regent. these have a 100% up time btw.now that is 862+136 from signet of renewal. That is 938 health per second.2

Troll Unguent, this heal skill pare with lesser muddy terrain and wilderness terrain cleanse 4 conditions, and heal for 1209 hp per second. and because the heal pulse for 8 second, the real cool down for this skill on the healing side is actually just 12 second.Now to balance this.1

the regent from rugged growth should've a 10 second cool down, or reduce the heal by halve, or rework it to give and 15% damage reduce when you have protection.2

lesser muddy terrain aoe effect should reduce from 10 second to 5, and remove 1 condition when it proc wilderness knowledge. immobilise reduce from 3 second to 2 second.3__troll unguent. Up the cool down from 25 second to 30 second.And please anet if you're reading this, fix our Bambi charge skill.

Yes, has nothing to do with being good at the class ... It's all about OP traits :frown:

It's also true that many "good" rangers appeared after druid introduction...a rather odd coincidence won't you agree?

I haven't seen any data on that. I have no idea who or what is good. What I do know is that being good at a class isn't just about a handful of OP traits, as some misguided people think. It's garbage science to make claims like you are and nothing good can come of it because even if you are right, people will ignore what you have to say. How about tone down the hyperbole.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Does it need a 'nerf' because of the actions in PvP? If so, might I suggest you consider that the majority of players in this game do not PvP, but instead PvE. And until a mob in PvE complains about anything, we tend to view your, and that other poster's, suggestions with some suspicion. Also, and this may be just me, but most rangers don't appreciate anyone coming to this forum to ask for our class to be nerfed even more.

Our apologies, but after years of nerfing to both our class and our pets, we tend to be less than sympathetic for obvious reasons. Please don't come here under the guise of trying to help. We see your agenda, and it isn't clever.

[Arheundel.6451]

lol done wasting time

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

Give me a kitten break...I bet 100g...80% of you wouldn't survive even half the time you do right now should I take away traits like Celestial shadow and druidic clarity..it shows in the amount of people playing soulbeast...too afraid to leave the little comfort zone and rely only on dodges and reaction time.....yeah stealth/run and heal to full spamming auto-attack from 1200 range...such skill...

Your bias is showing. I don't use either of those traits. I also don't use the avatar form. I find my healing decreases with it. So you owe me 100 gold. And the reason for the lack of people playing Soulbeast? In my opinion, most rangers like to play range with a pet. So, again, common sense tells us that playing without a pet and using melee goes against the idea of playing a ranger overall. Those players tended to go for more powerful classes like warrior or guardian.

Keep in mind, rangers were literally free points in WvW and PvP. After Heart of Thorns, we could hold our own with Druid, Bristleback, and Smokescale. And ever since it's been nonstop complaining because our class, again the 'free points' class, became something of a danger. And lay players didn't like it. Thus, the back-to-back nerfs to both the elite spec and those two pets.

Your 'insight' and backhanded comments are nothing new to the community. We are more than use to it. And in order to debate anything, you need to bring proof to the table. Yes, proof. As you said, anyone can play druid. Play it well is another debate. But also remember, anyone with an account can also post nonsense as opinion and scream that it's truth.

Screaming 'truth' to promote an opinion is also nothing new to this community either.

[LughLongArm.5460]

@Arheundel.6451 - I'm giving you this point(aslo in other threads) that DC&CA are too mandatory for druids ATM and contains most of the druid's survivability. Like you said yourself - "I bet 100g...80% of you wouldn't survive even half the time you do right now should I take away traits like Celestial shadow and druidic clarity." Just taking those away without addressing druid as a whole will result in druid being pure garbage. I understand that you don't play druid and don't even like it(and you kinda hate when in over shines soulbeasts in some aspects) Because of that I don't think you suited to suggest a valid perspective,you are more into "let's nerf druids","druids are EZ", "druid players are noobs" etc.. etc..

Now, I can make with you the same bet you offered @Ardenwolfe.8590 but only with WS, lets see you survive with any ranger/druid/soulbeast build without WS. How can you even suggest WS is not super mandatory, and notice I say mandatory and not OP. Rangers used to have options, NM and WS used to be in competition, but now WS for rangers is like the "defense" trait line for warriors, every one will pick it always and you won't survive otherwise. With WS it's even worse because WS will always go with WK(you mentioned mandatory traits? ) and with WK will almost always take 2-3 survival skills(heal included) and 1-2 other traits that synegises.DO you get an understanding on how WS limits build diversity ATM?

So ya, in-order to make their life easy, A.net like to focus a lot of functionality in several key intersections, it's easier to review and balance around. Just think about it, A.net nerfed almost every aspect of the druid since Hot lunch BUT NEVER touched DC&CA(the most obvious place to start with). Now if you take those away with out remaking the druid as a whole you'll destroy it. same thing goes to WS, you can't take it away ATM without changing tons of other things. What you can do, is to deny problematic scenarios like healing power stacking druid with WS in PVP(very specific scenario) and the solution is simple. Healing power scaling of RG should be reduced. I'ts subtle and not game breaking. outside of bunker druid builds most won't even feel the change. Even soulbeasts should request for this change if you ever want to see any kind of pet-swap option while in beastmode( Ya, I don't forget healings being amplified by supportive pets over the the existing healing power scaling, don't be greedy m8).

[Erzian.5218]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@corey.6451 said:The current druid top tier pvp metahere is why1

Rugged growth = 559+283 from regent. these have a 100% up time btw.now that is 862+136 from signet of renewal. That is 938 health per second.2

Troll Unguent, this heal skill pare with lesser muddy terrain and wilderness terrain cleanse 4 conditions, and heal for 1209 hp per second. and because the heal pulse for 8 second, the real cool down for this skill on the healing side is actually just 12 second.Now to balance this.1

the regent from rugged growth should've a 10 second cool down, or reduce the heal by halve, or rework it to give and 15% damage reduce when you have protection.2

lesser muddy terrain aoe effect should reduce from 10 second to 5, and remove 1 condition when it proc wilderness knowledge. immobilise reduce from 3 second to 2 second.3__troll unguent. Up the cool down from 25 second to 30 second.And please anet if you're reading this, fix our Bambi charge skill.

Rugged Growth and Troll Unguent are

core elements

and touching core elements to nerf a single elite is not an adopted strategy for Anet ( luckily )...here seen that you like to go around hating druid all over the forum....

wanna nerf druid for real without gutting spec and others?

-Druidic Clarity moved to Master, replaces Verdant Etching...BOOM..druid nerfed..now bring back the 2 condis for glyph and we're done*

To be fair, core ranger is probably the best core spec right now. At least in 1v1, it loses vs mirage and has to give up the node vs scourge, but it can win or stalemate pretty much any other 1v1, if executed well. Some match ups might be unfavorable (but winable) such as spellbreaker but it also stomps some 1v1s e.g. dh.And it still has stealth and some mobility to sustain/kite when it gets outnumbered.Core ranger is miles ahead of soulbeast.

[corey.6451]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:It's also true that many "good" rangers appeared after druid introduction...a rather odd coincidence won't you agree?

Like many "good" Scourges/Mirages/Spellbreakers/Firebrands/Deadeyes and Holos appeared after PoF. So ... do you go on these class forums and explain to them what traits should they nerf? or all this posts in last week about nerfing the Druid (rlly I don't know since when he is the Mighty OP) are jokes ?

Do you think I would get a different answer than the one I got here?I am used with being vilified for making these nerf thread about any profession, as I try to suggest to introduce some sort of balanced gameplay...people jump at my throat, players don't want to lose their safety nets aka...training wheels build

Mate. I see the same reaction on every balance threat. They all say the same thing, calling you bias, you oviously dont play this class, and on and on. One touch at their nest, and they will swarm you with....caugh...logical argument.

[HeadCrowned.6834]

You observe these traits and utilities as if you don't have an amulet choice. You call numbers that are only relevant when you wear menders in PvP. Upping the cooldown of TU to 30 secs is bad. CD on rugged growth is bad. Just make rugged growth scale less with healing power. And im fine with a few secs duration reduction on immob and such.

[zalt.8937]

I manage to survive just fine as a zerk core LB ranger. MM/WS/Skir all the way, no need for druid.

Regarding nerfing WS; do you think the same about trickery for thieves? Defense/disc for warriors? Herald for revs?

[Ario.8964]

@zalt.8937 said:I manage to survive just fine as a zerk core LB ranger. MM/WS/Skir all the way, no need for druid.

Regarding nerfing WS; do you think the same about trickery for thieves? Defense/disc for warriors? Herald for revs?

That comparison doesn't work as wilderness survival doesn't make core elements of ranger function, it just boosts the survivability to an absurd level when coupled with nature magic and druid. Trickery makes steal actually do something in combat, discipline gives warriors basic utility and defense gives them their only good form of sustain outside of healing signet (which by itself is minimal sustain).

Also I'm curious, at what level are you playing when you do this? Are we talking plat level in pvp or is it more like silver? This isn't supposed to be an attack, I'm asking because I want to see what level people can play ranger at without druid.

I agree Ranger sustain needs a nerf (or pet's need to be reworked so ranger can't build full sustain while their pet carries damage) but they need compensation for it because if you take all their sustain away without giving them something useful then they will disappear from meta like they did before HoT gave them Druid.

[zalt.8937]

@Ario.8964 said:

@zalt.8937 said:I manage to survive just fine as a zerk core LB ranger. MM/WS/Skir all the way, no need for druid.

Regarding nerfing WS; do you think the same about trickery for thieves? Defense/disc for warriors? Herald for revs?

That comparison doesn't work as wilderness survival doesn't make core elements of ranger function, it just boosts the survivability to an absurd level when coupled with nature magic and druid. Trickery makes steal actually do something in combat, discipline gives warriors basic utility and defense gives them their only good form of sustain outside of healing signet (which by itself is minimal sustain).

Also I'm curious, at what level are you playing when you do this? Are we talking plat level in pvp or is it more like silver? This isn't supposed to be an attack, I'm asking because I want to see what level people can play ranger at without druid.

I agree Ranger sustain needs a nerf (or pet's need to be reworked so ranger can't build full sustain while their pet carries damage) but they need compensation for it because if you take all their sustain away without giving them something useful then they will disappear from meta like they did before HoT gave them Druid.

I took a break like two weeks before pof lunched amf just returned a few weeks ago, so i havent done any ranked since before the break. I ended in plat 1 solo q rather casually as core zerk :)

I agree on that pets need a rework. The most logical solution would be if pets got stats based on player. Lets say i go magi amu, then my pet would hit like a wet noodle.

In this meta WS is mandatory cause its the only really reliable way to remove condies. I agree ws/nm/druid is over performing given how forgiving it is. I do think if pet dmg was gimped to get stats based on player stats, they'd be more in line with what they should be.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@corey.6451 said:Mate. I see the same reaction on every balance threat. They all say the same thing, calling you bias, you oviously dont play this class, and on and on. One touch at their nest, and they will swarm you with....caugh...logical argument.

The 'bias' shows from the fact that these posts come on the heels of death and defeat in PvP. It's also obvious they're raged and rushed postings based on the word choice, spelling, and grammar errors. The titles alone show their lack of merit and forethought about the topic. Now, given the ranger's history of game-breaking nerfs with almost each patch in the previous years, you'll have to forgive the community when any suggestion of more nerfs irks them.

Lastly, we tend to be suspicious when anyone who claims to 'main' a ranger wants it to be nerfed, and I sincerely hope I don't need to go in-depth as to why.

As a great man once told me, it's not what you say, but how you say it. This not only applies to verbal communication, but also written ones. If you want the community to take any suggestion seriously, you need to makes such suggestions in a serious manner.

Otherwise, yes, your ranger peers will 'swarm' such opinions with counterpoints that're -cough- logical . . . which they very much are.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:It's also true that many "good" rangers appeared after druid introduction...a rather odd coincidence won't you agree?

Like many "good" Scourges/Mirages/Spellbreakers/Firebrands/Deadeyes and Holos appeared after PoF. So ... do you go on these class forums and explain to them what traits should they nerf? or all this posts in last week about nerfing the Druid (rlly I don't know since when he is the Mighty OP) are jokes ?

Do you think I would get a different answer than the one I got here?I am used with being vilified for making these nerf thread about any profession, as I try to suggest to introduce some sort of balanced gameplay...people jump at my throat, players don't want to lose their safety nets aka...training wheels build

Is it a coincidence that PvP population got an all time high since the HoT 2.0 patch and after PoF release?E-Specs are strong in many aspects of the game and fill out roles or improve on things of the baseclass.If a player gets good experience with a class they keep playing it and get even more experience with it. So it is just logical that there are now more good ranger players. In addition to that PvP is now more renowed than it was on release or pre HoT.Druid needs some streamlining to get it to some distinct levels of CC, support and competitive roles.Ranger needs some diversification in trait so WS is not mandatory and you get other options for PvP or other condi heavy encounters in other gamemodes.But a straight off nerf isnt the solution and isnt real balancing.Balance means we have counters and are counters.CC heavy mesmers and Warriors easily can kill us because of the lack of stability.And boon corruption still can overwhelm a druid player. So there are still counters against druid which is in good steady state in the gane atm IMO and nothing rellay UP or OP.

[Lazze.9870]

@Ario.8964 said:

@"zalt.8937" said:I agree Ranger sustain needs a nerf.

Sigh. Except it doesn't.

Wilderness Survival is in a good place. It's strong in combination with Nature Magic and Protective Ward, and then obviously even stronger with a healing spec like the druid. Meaning you should aim at nerfing the druid's sustain/surviveability. It's pretty clear at this point that a "better" PvP druid build never will run anything but a combination of Druid and beastmatery/nature magic/wilderness survival. Nerfing druid's surviveability will only hit niche builds hard (while toning down the meta druid), nerfing WS means you're effectively killing off soulbeast as a viable high level spec.

It's easier and better for Anet to tune new elite specs with WS and NM in mind, instead of giving the ranger lots of sustain through elite specs and then nerf the core class.

[Ario.8964]

@zalt.8937 said:

@Ario.8964 said:

@zalt.8937 said:I manage to survive just fine as a zerk core LB ranger. MM/WS/Skir all the way, no need for druid.

Regarding nerfing WS; do you think the same about trickery for thieves? Defense/disc for warriors? Herald for revs?

That comparison doesn't work as wilderness survival doesn't make core elements of ranger function, it just boosts the survivability to an absurd level when coupled with nature magic and druid. Trickery makes steal actually do something in combat, discipline gives warriors basic utility and defense gives them their only good form of sustain outside of healing signet (which by itself is minimal sustain).

Also I'm curious, at what level are you playing when you do this? Are we talking plat level in pvp or is it more like silver? This isn't supposed to be an attack, I'm asking because I want to see what level people can play ranger at without druid.

I agree Ranger sustain needs a nerf (or pet's need to be reworked so ranger can't build full sustain while their pet carries damage) but they need compensation for it because if you take all their sustain away without giving them something useful then they will disappear from meta like they did before HoT gave them Druid.

I took a break like two weeks before pof lunched amf just returned a few weeks ago, so i havent done any ranked since before the break. I ended in plat 1 solo q rather casually as core zerk :)

I agree on that pets need a rework. The most logical solution would be if pets got stats based on player. Lets say i go magi amu, then my pet would hit like a wet noodle.

In this meta WS is mandatory cause its the only really reliable way to remove condies. I agree ws/nm/druid is over performing given how forgiving it is. I do think if pet dmg was kitten to get stats based on player stats, they'd be more in line with what they should be.

Well first off, nice! Especially with core zerk, I'd imagine it wasn't fun fighting through thieves though :/

Pets also need to be more reliable, my experience and the experience of those I've talked to have always had a consistent factor: pets are too unreliable with hits outside of smokecale, bback, and jacaranda. Anet's original compensation was they were unreliable but when they hit it was a big hit (4-5k for some of the pets) which is obviously not a good idea. So I'd be for reducing their damage or making them scale off player stats but they need a reliability buff so players can 1) use all the pets 2) count on them to do their job in combat.

Yeah, WS is great for condi removal. It's by itself a good line and I wouldn't call it op if it was by itself. The issue comes from how well it synergizes with other options available to the ranger and I'm not sure there's much to do about that outside of breaking ranger for the sake of slightly nerfing druid. I honestly believe if the pets were redone correctly the problem could be fixed as you remove the pet as a threat when the ranger is a bunker.

[Ario.8964]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Ario.8964 said:

@"zalt.8937" said:I agree Ranger sustain needs a nerf.

Sigh. Except it doesn't.

Wilderness Survival is in a good place. It's strong in combination with Nature Magic and Protective Ward, and then obviously even stronger with a healing spec like the druid. Meaning you should aim at nerfing the druid's sustain/surviveability. It's pretty clear at this point that a "better" PvP druid build never will run anything but a combination of Druid and beastmatery/nature magic/wilderness survival. Nerfing druid's surviveability will only hit niche builds hard (while toning down the meta druid), nerfing WS means you're effectively killing off soulbeast as a viable high level spec.

It's easier and better for Anet to tune new elite specs with WS and NM in mind, instead of giving the ranger lots of sustain through elite specs and then nerf the core class.

I don't want them to nerf WS as it's not the problem. I want them to nerf druid's sustain. Core ranger isn't the problem as the sustain there can be overcome in decent time. The problem is when you add on druid's healing ability and tanky nature it becomes a problem.

[Lazze.9870]

@Ario.8964 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Ario.8964 said:

@"zalt.8937" said:I agree Ranger sustain needs a nerf.

Sigh. Except it doesn't.

Wilderness Survival is in a good place. It's strong in combination with Nature Magic and Protective Ward, and then obviously even stronger with a healing spec like the druid. Meaning you should aim at nerfing the druid's sustain/surviveability. It's pretty clear at this point that a "better" PvP druid build never will run anything but a combination of Druid and beastmatery/nature magic/wilderness survival. Nerfing druid's surviveability will only hit niche builds hard (while toning down the meta druid), nerfing WS means you're effectively killing off soulbeast as a viable high level spec.

It's easier and better for Anet to tune new elite specs with WS and NM in mind, instead of giving the ranger lots of sustain through elite specs and then nerf the core class.

I don't want them to nerf WS as it's not the problem. I want them to nerf druid's sustain. Core ranger isn't the problem as the sustain there can be overcome in decent time. The problem is when you add on druid's healing ability and tanky nature it becomes a problem.

Then you should say "nerf druid's sustain", not the "ranger's sustain".

Regardless, the sustain isn't the "problem" (I personaly never struggled with druids, or any rangers, as I've played the class way too much myself). It's its reset abilities, mainly with Celestial Shadow, that allow people to stay alive.