Wilderness survival line need a few nerf.

[zalt.8937]

There's one simple fix to this in my opinion. Simply make pets scale with player stats. If you go sustained with healing, your pet gains similar stats and wont hit like a truck, but rather be more tanky, whilst the druid can staff auto and build astal. If one goes full glass so should the pet. In that way, a support druid will remain support and a damage oriented ranger/druid/soulbeast will remain bursty.

Regarding celedtial shadow, its a tricky one. But in conjunction with proposed changes to pet stats it wont be so bad since a sustained druid wont really be a threat. And if the druid leans toward damage and burst it wont build astral very fast and wont be able to abuse celestial shadow.

[Sandzibar.5134]

@"Lazze.9870" said:Regardless, the sustain isn't the "problem" (I personaly never struggled with druids, or any rangers, as I've played the class way too much myself). It's its reset abilities, mainly with Celestial Shadow, that allow people to stay alive.

Same issue exists for profs like Thief and Mes. Where they fail their opener and can just reset no worries.So if you're going to nerf Celestial Shadow its only fair to look at everyones ability to do that.

I think we all know that aint ever happening...

[Ario.8964]

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@"Lazze.9870" said:Regardless, the sustain isn't the "problem" (I personaly never struggled with druids, or any rangers, as I've played the class way too much myself). It's its reset abilities, mainly with Celestial Shadow, that allow people to stay alive.

Same issue exists for profs like Thief and Mes. Where they fail their opener and can just reset no worries.So if you're going to nerf Celestial Shadow its only fair to look at

everyones

ability to do that.

I think we all know that aint ever happening...

They can't reset while sitting on a point contesting it though. That's the difference. Thief fucks up and he has to run away. Ranger fucks up and he just outheals everything you do to him while his pet kills you. You can't compare across classes like that.

[Sandzibar.5134]

@Ario.8964 said:

@Sandzibar.5134 said:

@"Lazze.9870" said:Regardless, the sustain isn't the "problem" (I personaly never struggled with druids, or any rangers, as I've played the class way too much myself). It's its reset abilities, mainly with Celestial Shadow, that allow people to stay alive.

Same issue exists for profs like Thief and Mes. Where they fail their opener and can just reset no worries.So if you're going to nerf Celestial Shadow its only fair to look at

everyones

ability to do that.

I think we all know that aint ever happening...

They can't reset while sitting on a point contesting it though. That's the difference. Thief kitten up and he has to run away. Ranger kitten up and he just outheals everything you do to him while his pet kills you. You can't compare across classes like that.

I dont think you got the gist of what I wrote and how its related to stealth resets - as that's what the person I responded to was talking about, the stealth component of Celestial Shadow.

Stealth buys time.Just like healing buys time.Sustain = Time

Cant contest whilst in stealth as a mes/teef very true! but you cant as a druid/ranger when stealthed either...I think your argument is more suited to responding to Lazze, where he thinks stealth is an issue for druid sustain. Whilst it looks like your issue is with healing for druid sustain.

I just have a problem with people having a 0 risk playstyle, where if it isnt going well you can just easily escape with no repercussions.

And that problem isnt confined to fighting rangers, so why should only rangers be nerfed in that regard? That was my opinion.

[OGDeadHead.8326]

@zalt.8937 said:There's one simple fix to this in my opinion. Simply make pets scale with player stats. If you go sustained with healing, your pet gains similar stats and wont hit like a truck, but rather be more tanky, whilst the druid can staff auto and build astal. If one goes full glass so should the pet. In that way, a support druid will remain support and a damage oriented ranger/druid/soulbeast will remain bursty.

Regarding celedtial shadow, its a tricky one. But in conjunction with proposed changes to pet stats it wont be so bad since a sustained druid wont really be a threat. And if the druid leans toward damage and burst it wont build astral very fast and wont be able to abuse celestial shadow.

Simple response.You. Have. No. Clue.

Everyone that talks about this wants current pet damage to be the maximum, meaning for your pets to deal the damage they do today, you would have to spec full glass with zero survivability, and then nerfed in a downward going spiral from there.It's a joke, give it up already with this freakin suggestion, I'm sick and tired of hearing it because it all boils down to one thing - crappy players wants ranger nerfed so they can have their free kill. This community makes me wanna bang my head to the wall sometimes and rage quit this game. But it would probably be better to leave these forums.

[corey.6451]

With the current ranger pet. We have to dedicate a full trait line for our pet, to actually make it does meaningful damage. If we dont use that traits line, pet damage will reduce by 15-20%.

And if pet get stats from ranger stats. Healing will be useless. Boon duration will be useless. It would kill every single one of our viable builds. Not to mention if we go full glass, our pet will die really fast. If we go healing spec, pet will useless because 95% of then dont have heal skills, and they dont have any team heal skills. If we go bunker, pet wont do any damage, and it will just be another mini.

If you want pets to get the stats from the ranger. The full ranger class need a rework. Or it will be a dead class with a dead pet.

[arenta.2953]

oi. those survival skills are what make ranger.....not crap.

don't touch em <.<

[zalt.8937]

@OGDeadHead.8326 said:

@zalt.8937 said:

There's one simple fix to this in my opinion.

Simply make pets scale with player stats. If you go sustained with healing, your pet gains similar stats and wont hit like a truck, but rather be more tanky, whilst the druid can staff auto and build astal. If one goes full glass so should the pet. In that way, a support druid will remain support and a damage oriented ranger/druid/soulbeast will remain bursty.

Regarding celedtial shadow, its a tricky one. But in conjunction with proposed changes to pet stats it wont be so bad since a sustained druid wont really be a threat. And if the druid leans toward damage and burst it wont build astral very fast and wont be able to abuse celestial shadow.

Simple response.You. Have. No. Clue.

Everyone that talks about this wants current pet damage to be the maximum, meaning for your pets to deal the damage they do today, you would have to spec full glass with zero survivability, and then nerfed in a downward going spiral from there.It's a joke, give it up already with this freakin suggestion, I'm sick and tired of hearing it because it all boils down to one thing - crappy players wants ranger nerfed so they can have their free kill. This community makes me wanna bang my head to the wall sometimes and rage quit this game. But it would probably be better to leave these forums.

Not really aiming to make rangers free kills since I main it. I just want pets to scale with player stats so that one cant bandwagon pet damage whilst playing low risk.I myself mostly play berseker amu, and the survival is far from low if played good. However in teamfights w/o longbow which isnt really good for on point teamfights berseker would be a gimp. But then again if you spec for support i dont think your pet should be full damage since this promotes lazy gameplay.

You are free to your own opinion ofcourse

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@corey.6451 said:The full ranger class need a rework. Or it will be a dead class with a dead pet.

You are wrong! The ranger is good like it is now. He needs only few fix like other classes need it.You must remember that Anet is focusing now on PoF specialization and not on vanila ones. If they will rework a class, then the new specialization should be reworked too, and this is not their goal, because they will not make another GW2 just because you said to.Do you realize what do you ask? Or you just talk ....

[corey.6451]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@corey.6451 said:The full ranger class need a rework. Or it will be a dead class with a dead pet.

You are wrong! The ranger is good like it is now. He needs only few fix like other classes need it.You must remember that Anet is focusing now on PoF specialization and not on vanila ones. If they will rework a class, then the new specialization should be reworked too, and this is not their goal, because they will not make another GW2 just because you said to.Do you realize what do you ask? Or you just talk ....

Dude i said if pet get their stats from the ranger.

[zalt.8937]

@"corey.6451" said:With the current ranger pet. We have to dedicate a full trait line for our pet, to actually make it does meaningful damage. If we dont use that traits line, pet damage will reduce by 15-20%.

And if pet get stats from ranger stats. Healing will be useless. Boon duration will be useless. It would kill every single one of our viable builds. Not to mention if we go full glass, our pet will die really fast. If we go healing spec, pet will useless because 95% of then dont have heal skills, and they dont have any team heal skills. If we go bunker, pet wont do any damage, and it will just be another mini.

If you want pets to get the stats from the ranger. The full ranger class need a rework. Or it will be a dead class with a dead pet.

Not many use beastmastery anymore since WS replaced it. Most comon is nm/ws/druid. Should you go druid and BM you have to choose either ws or nm. Either choice would reduce ranger sustain and this thread wouldnt exist.

I didnt say get the same as or copy. I said scale, sorry for not clearifying what i ment with it; they'd have base stats and then get additional stats based on what the player choose. That might seem tricky too since hey, what if im a condi ranger? Ive not tried pof pets yet, but as far as im concerned, pets dont have any real condi pressure. So a good idea might be to have a few pre-chosen "pet amulettes" based on what the player has equipped. So berserker and full condi amu would increase direct damage of pet in addition to the pets base stats whilst lets say healing power might grant the pet more toughness and perhaps boonduration.These are just suggestions i feel would improve the gameplay as and vs rangers, you do not have to agree :)

And regarding boonduration being useless for pets; in the NM traitline theres a minor called fortifying bond which makes pets get the boons you get. And since its a minor it'll always be part of a NM build, which is a must have in any build enhancing boons.

[corey.6451]

@zalt.8937 said:

@"corey.6451" said:With the current ranger pet. We have to dedicate a full trait line for our pet, to actually make it does meaningful damage. If we dont use that traits line, pet damage will reduce by 15-20%.

And if pet get stats from ranger stats. Healing will be useless. Boon duration will be useless. It would kill every single one of our viable builds. Not to mention if we go full glass, our pet will die really fast. If we go healing spec, pet will useless because 95% of then dont have heal skills, and they dont have any team heal skills. If we go bunker, pet wont do any damage, and it will just be another mini.

If you want pets to get the stats from the ranger. The full ranger class need a rework. Or it will be a dead class with a dead pet.

Not many use beastmastery anymore since WS replaced it. Most comon is nm/ws/druid. Should you go druid and BM you have to choose either ws or nm. Either choice would reduce ranger sustain and this thread wouldnt exist.

I didnt say get the same as or copy. I said scale, sorry for not clearifying what i ment with it; they'd have base stats and then get additional stats based on what the player choose. That might seem tricky too since hey, what if im a condi ranger? Ive not tried pof pets yet, but as far as im concerned, pets dont have any real condi pressure. So a good idea might be to have a few pre-chosen "pet amulettes" based on what the player has equipped. So berserker and full condi amu would increase direct damage of pet in addition to the pets base stats whilst lets say healing power might grant the pet more toughness and perhaps boonduration.These are just suggestions i feel would improve the gameplay as and vs rangers, you do not have to agree :)

And regarding boonduration being useless for pets; in the NM traitline theres a minor called fortifying bond which makes pets get the boons you get. And since its a minor it'll always be part of a NM build, which is a must have in any build enhancing boons.

Yeh scaling would work. But alots need to be tweak. Plus them boon pet get is base on the ranger boon duration not pet duration. Still a good idea. But i would like anet to do this because the balance will either be be so crap for us or be op. This is anet after all.

[zalt.8937]

@corey.6451 said:

@zalt.8937 said:

@corey.6451 said:With the current ranger pet. We have to dedicate a full trait line for our pet, to actually make it does meaningful damage. If we dont use that traits line, pet damage will reduce by 15-20%.

And if pet get stats from ranger stats. Healing will be useless. Boon duration will be useless. It would kill every single one of our viable builds. Not to mention if we go full glass, our pet will die really fast. If we go healing spec, pet will useless because 95% of then dont have heal skills, and they dont have any team heal skills. If we go bunker, pet wont do any damage, and it will just be another mini.

If you want pets to get the stats from the ranger. The full ranger class need a rework. Or it will be a dead class with a dead pet.

Not many use beastmastery anymore since WS replaced it. Most comon is nm/ws/druid. Should you go druid and BM you have to choose either ws or nm. Either choice would reduce ranger sustain and this thread wouldnt exist.

I didnt say get the same as or copy. I said scale, sorry for not clearifying what i ment with it; they'd have base stats and then get additional stats based on what the player choose. That might seem tricky too since hey, what if im a condi ranger? Ive not tried pof pets yet, but as far as im concerned, pets dont have any real condi pressure. So a good idea might be to have a few pre-chosen "pet amulettes" based on what the player has equipped. So berserker and full condi amu would increase direct damage of pet in addition to the pets base stats whilst lets say healing power might grant the pet more toughness and perhaps boonduration.These are just suggestions i feel would improve the gameplay as and vs rangers, you do not have to agree :)

And regarding boonduration being useless for pets; in the NM traitline theres a minor called fortifying bond which makes pets get the boons you get. And since its a minor it'll always be part of a NM build, which is a must have in any build enhancing boons.

Yeh scaling would work. But alots need to be tweak. Plus them boon pet get is base on the ranger boon duration not pet duration. Still a good idea. But i would like anet to do this because the balance will either be be so crap for us or be op. This is anet after all.

Agreed, best we can hope for is a gw3 in the future with proper marketing and actual focus on thr foundation of guildwars, namely pvp!

[Prophet.1584]

Core is fine. Don't touch my RangerDruid is fine. Don't touch my DruidSoulbeast is not fine. dagger needs dps increases. sb utilities need serious buffs. SB is in desperate need of more damage modifiers.

If anything at all where to be done besides this then the skills MUST be split between PVE and PVP. We don't need our one role in PvE destroyed because PvP players can't figure out how to beat a Druid that can heal.

Please stop feeding the trolls now.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Prophet.1584 said:Soulbeast is not fine.

Wrong, Sooulbeast is more than fine.

dagger needs dps increases.I am agree with you

sb utilities need serious buffs. SB is in desperate need of more damage modifiers.only some of them need buffs.

If anything at all where to be done besides this then the skills MUST be split between PVE and PVP. We don't need our one role in PvE destroyed because PvP players can't figure out how to beat a Druid that can heal.

Soulbeast can beat any time a Druid with the only condition, that Druid don't run back :) , otherwise you will fight forever.

Still I don't know why ppl want to nerf Druid, because I can kill it with my Soulbeast, and Druid doesn't deserve to be nerfed, otherwise players who love him (and specially ppl who have only HoT) will quit this game.

[Yannir.4132]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"corey.6451" said:The current druid top tier pvp metahere is why1

Rugged growth = 559+283 from regent. these have a 100% up time btw.now that is 862+136 from signet of renewal. That is 938 health per second.2

Troll Unguent, this heal skill pare with lesser muddy terrain and wilderness terrain cleanse 4 conditions, and heal for 1209 hp per second. and because the heal pulse for 8 second, the real cool down for this skill on the healing side is actually just 12 second.Now to balance this.1

the regent from rugged growth should've a 10 second cool down, or reduce the heal by halve, or rework it to give and 15% damage reduce when you have protection.2

lesser muddy terrain aoe effect should reduce from 10 second to 5, and remove 1 condition when it proc wilderness knowledge. immobilise reduce from 3 second to 2 second.3__troll unguent. Up the cool down from 25 second to 30 second.And please anet if you're reading this, fix our Bambi charge skill.

Yes, has nothing to do with being good at the class ... It's all about OP traits :frown:

It's also true that many "good" rangers appeared after druid introduction...a rather odd coincidence won't you agree?

That's probably because Ranger was the worst PvP class in the game before HoT. Yes, even thieves were better.

[Prophet.1584]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Prophet.1584 said:Soulbeast is not fine.

Wrong, Sooulbeast is more than fine.

dagger needs dps increases.I am agree with you

sb utilities need serious buffs. SB is in desperate need of more damage modifiers.only some of them need buffs.

If anything at all where to be done besides this then the skills MUST be split between PVE and PVP. We don't need our one role in PvE destroyed because PvP players can't figure out how to beat a Druid that can heal.

Soulbeast can beat any time a Druid with the only condition, that Druid don't run back :) , otherwise you will fight forever.

Still I don't know why ppl want to nerf Druid, because I can kill it with my Soulbeast, and Druid doesn't deserve to be nerfed, otherwise players who love him (and specially ppl who have only HoT) will quit this game.

just speaking from a PvE perspective, power Soulbeast is lacking DPS. buffing weapon coefficients would increase ranger damage all across the board and would probably unbalance the profession. adding a couple +10% dmg modifiers in places that made sense or make the stance sharing trait more potent and improve stances would make power Soulbeast very competitive in PvE. Condi soulbeast is already in a good spot in PvE and so is support Druid. Core ranger could use some power buffs as well but overall it's ok. PvE and PvP splits are becoming a real necessity though.

and yea, i agree, i faceroll most druids on Soulbeast. The only profession i've had some serious WTF moments from are mesmer/mirages and sometimes a really good weaver springs up and nukes me.

[Justine.6351]

Wilderness Survival

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:It's also true that many "good" rangers appeared after druid introduction...a rather odd coincidence won't you agree?

Like many "good" Scourges/Mirages/Spellbreakers/Firebrands/Deadeyes and Holos appeared after PoF. So ... do you go on these class forums and explain to them what traits should they nerf? or all this posts in last week about nerfing the Druid (rlly I don't know since when he is the Mighty OP) are jokes ?

Do you think I would get a different answer than the one I got here?I am used with being vilified for making these nerf thread about any profession, as I try to suggest to introduce some sort of balanced gameplay...people jump at my throat, players don't want to lose their safety nets aka...training wheels build

Isn't most of your playtime in WvW?WvW where many classes can go ham on stats? Yep that's the one.

I play in spvp. I don't want your changes touching anything on the ranger in pvp....it's two different worlds.

[Arheundel.6451]

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:It's also true that many "good" rangers appeared after druid introduction...a rather odd coincidence won't you agree?

Like many "good" Scourges/Mirages/Spellbreakers/Firebrands/Deadeyes and Holos appeared after PoF. So ... do you go on these class forums and explain to them what traits should they nerf? or all this posts in last week about nerfing the Druid (rlly I don't know since when he is the Mighty OP) are jokes ?

Do you think I would get a different answer than the one I got here?I am used with being vilified for making these nerf thread about any profession, as I try to suggest to introduce some sort of balanced gameplay...people jump at my throat, players don't want to lose their safety nets aka...training wheels build

Isn't most of your playtime in WvW?WvW where many classes can go ham on stats? Yep that's the one.

I play in spvp. I don't want your changes touching anything on the ranger in pvp....it's two different worlds.

I would aim to make druid a stronger team support viable even in zergs for wvw and at the same time making soulbeast the de-facto duellist but...we're talking about a balanced game that majority of gw2 players as shown time and time again...do not desire

[EnderzShadow.2506]

why do I even respond to these convos.Do any of us have any actual evidence that the people who make 'said balance changes' read these forums?

If anything, Anet has proven that they won't Fix or Change anything that isn't incredibly broken. This goes both ways, whether it's broken WORKS or Broken-Broken.

Scourge outrage. What has anet done?

Comparatively, a few people asking for nerfs to druid doesn't even register.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

Comparatively, a few people asking for nerfs to druid doesn't even register.

Sadly, this is not true. I wish otherwise, but the complaints from PvP do have an effect. How much of an effect overall is another discussion, but your peers here can point to many examples. I'll not go down that rabbit hole, yet I do wish I could agree that those few people asking for nerfs didn't register.

I really do.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

@Prophet.1584 said:just speaking from a PvE perspective, power Soulbeast is lacking DPS. buffing weapon coefficients would increase ranger damage all across the board and would probably unbalance the profession. adding a couple +10% dmg modifiers in places that made sense or make the stance sharing trait more potent and improve stances would make power Soulbeast very competitive in PvE. Condi soulbeast is already in a good spot in PvE and so is support Druid. Core ranger could use some power buffs as well but overall it's ok. PvE and PvP splits are becoming a real necessity though.

and yea, i agree, i faceroll most druids on Soulbeast. The only profession i've had some serious kitten moments from are mesmer/mirages and sometimes a really good weaver springs up and nukes me.

@Prophet.1584 regarding PVE aspect I am agree, usual I talk only about WvW and sPVP perspective.And like you said, our (or Soulbeast) main problem is mesmer/mirage which in last 2 weeks I manage to beat them using most of the time my pets and playing more passive than active. I use my main damage only after mirage use his stupid evades/reflects. Still mirage remain my hardest opponent.

[EDDIE WRECKER.1375]

It doesnt need a nerf, its the only trait line we have that makes us kind of effective vs condi. Nerf it and you kill Ranger variety. It is the back bone of most decent ranger builds. Not a very thought out suggestion.

[ChartFish.1308]

@Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

@Prophet.1584 said:Soulbeast is not fine.

Wrong, Sooulbeast is more than fine.

dagger needs dps increases.I am agree with you

sb utilities need serious buffs. SB is in desperate need of more damage modifiers.only some of them need buffs.

If anything at all where to be done besides this then the skills MUST be split between PVE and PVP. We don't need our one role in PvE destroyed because PvP players can't figure out how to beat a Druid that can heal.

Soulbeast can beat any time a Druid with the only condition, that Druid don't run back :) , otherwise you will fight forever.

Still I don't know why ppl want to nerf Druid, because I can kill it with my Soulbeast, and Druid doesn't deserve to be nerfed, otherwise players who love him (and specially ppl who have only HoT) will quit this game.

Soulbeast is a disappointment tbh. I ran it for a while, before switching to core. Enemy soulbeasts go down like butter.Merged pet skills are too weak and need serious buffs. Only the F3s are worth something (a nod to rock gazelle, smokescale and jacaranda that actually has a decent merge). Bear stance is meh, so is moa/griffon/vulture stance. One wolf pack feels lackluster, but i like the idea. Ill still pick strenght of the pack over it though.The only one i really like is dolyak stance.