P/D Thief

[Malkarne.8167]

Hi all,

Thinking about coming back, I've been away since HoT dropped. I have a P/D condition thief with carrion exotics and krait sigils - is that still a viable set up? Does anyone have an updated guide for P/D thief?

Thanks!

[babazhook.6805]

P/d is more then viable. While some insist the DE spec does not work with P/D , I find it superior over going the Daredevil route as long as you are able to survive without those added dodges. Core Spec P/d can also do very well.

If you are in Carrion you might also consider Grievers. It much flimsier and you really have to be on your toes, but the added ferocity coupled with power and condition damage can really spike up damage over pure condition.

If going Core I found I liked P/d with DA/SA/TR. The SA adds to the number of stealths via hidden and gives access to very good cleanse with SE and boon rip using Rending shades . Potent poison is the Go To GM in DA as you can really stack poison in a hurry. Krait is fine here as are choices like Thorns.

if you want to try the DE spec you have to change up tactics a might but while it looks like it not friendly to a Condition build , it can be very effective (moreso then the daredevil version damage wise). Improv can be very dangerous in this build used in conjunction with Mercy. My Exisiting Spec is DA/DE/TR although I will often slot in SA over TR without too much loss in damage out. (more stealth means more sneak attacks which helps to make up for the loss of BA. TR outputs more damage . SA allows better survival)

With P/d condition using grievers you can get some very hard hitting Power strikes. It very easy to get 4K+ on a shadowstrike which only adds to condition damage ticks. if going the DE route you will want to take advantage of stolen items and the might stack that is available. You can easily maintain 20 stacks of might and can output some very significant Condition damage spikes using just steal and the stolen item.

As example just using STEAL with Mercy and Improv traited you can easily stack 25 might on self and while fighting a scourge .This can load said scourge with 20 bleeds and 10 confusion using Steal (stolen item X2) , Mercy reset followed by another steal (stolen item x2) this coming with added heals of some 5K base. This before any attacks made outside the steal and application of stolen items, which is all done at 1500 range. If in a hyrbrid build and using in conjunction with MUG you can chain together significant damage/heals and condition apps in short order.

[Malkarne.8167]

Great info, thank you!

[Turk.5460]

@saerni.2584

[roamzero.9486]

If WvW is what your after, P/D is very sub optimal. You'd want to at least change your gear to Trailblazer. P/D DE is ok but that P/P Condi Daredevil build that people are starting to pick up vastly outperforms any P/D build.

[saerni.2584]

Generally agree with Babaz. P/D generally requires better timing than P/P because Shadowstrike is only effective as a kiting tool if it hits and that requires both positioning and awareness of blocks.

But P/D also has torment and cripple on Dancing Dagger which helps a lot for AoE crowd control and kiting/timing SS.

Deadeye remains a ranged spec. Unlike a P/D Daredevil which can use mobility to dance around an enemy the Deadeye needs to stay more at range. This can make enemies with a lot of gap closers harder to deal with so you need to pay a lot of attention in general.

[Malkarne.8167]

Thanks all. How does P/D fare in group PvE content/DPS? I know it's hardly meta, but can you pull your own weight in dungeons or fractals?

[saerni.2584]

Yeah you can do pretty well. Most everything can work in PvE imo. The key is to understand that thief isn’t so weapon reliant to apply condition damage. It’s more traits/utilities/steal.

Just think of condi thief as more support than plain DPS. Spider Venom is good damage when shared to the full party. Deadeye offers group boons and the reset on mark makes Deadeye P/D fairly effective because Thief is very reliant on the steal mechanic to apply conditions.

In PvE you can apply massive amounts of AoE might to your group, poison and confusion on enemy creatures and maintain that pressure (drop SA in PvE and use DA/Tr/DE). You can also apply good CC against breakbars through either basi venom or several cantrips with cc effects.

[babazhook.6805]

The single largest issue with p/d in a dungeon fractal run is not your own inherent ability to inflict damage. It the group of people you are with and whether they feel your build sub optimal. A lot have tunnel vision in this regard. I never much liked fractal but did a number of dungeouns with friends and really had no issues putting out damage.

As Saerni points out you can apply a lot of group might as a thief but do not forget that in that DE spec you can apply a number of boons and conditions to the group via the stolen item outside might , depending on what is stolen. Some of it synergizes very well with group play. (as example Protection via Engineer steal along with vuln to enemy). This likely easier to do in PvE then it is to get a venom share in.

I am usually in WvW and just as an example will oftimes be with a small group flipping or defending a tower. If in that small area I am able to steal from an engineer and then apply and stack protection onto allies even as I apply vuln to enemies , there a significant impact on how that fight goes.