Is Theif good in PvE?

[ScrubLord.8321]

I never really touch PvP in MMO's and was wondering if its worth leveling a theif for PvE

[Aplier.7829]

For open world PvE and casual instanced content (like dungeons and fractals), power thief is absolutely amazing. It's able to almost instantly delete most enemies you come across, has great sustain thanks to healing for 15% of all crit damage it deals, the low healthpool is made up for by having a ton of dodges and spammable blinds, you can have near-permanent stealth for sneaking past dangerous groups or communing with hero/mastery points, access to shadowsteps and other mobility tools, and more once you factor in elite specs. As a thief, I feel like I always have just the right tools available for whatever situation I'm faced with.

In high level organized play (speedrun fractals or raids), power thief starts to hit a bit of a dps wall, capping out around 30k sustained dps and no real burst, while most other "meta" classes go up to 33-36k (mostly caused by our dps not scaling with the alacrity from chronos due to our initiative system, while all other CD-based classes need that 100% alacrity uptime to hit their max dps). But ultimately that's not a big issue considering that most raid fights can be comfortably completed with ~15k dps (half of those benchmark numbers), and we still have access to a condi build that stays competitive in those raid environments where power might find itself lacking.

[ScrubLord.8321]

I always really enjoy raids, so Ill probs have to level him into a Condi build. But it seems that theif is good in PvE, so thanks for the help

[Aplier.7829]

@ScrubLord.8321 said:I always really enjoy raids, so Ill probs have to level him into a Condi build. But it seems that theif is good in PvE, so thanks for the helpSorry if it sounded like I was selling power thief short just on the basis of benchmarks, there's a lot of pros to it too!

It comes with built-in 3 target cleave on everything with helps with free dps when adds are out. And as mentioned it's not reliant on alacrity at all since we only have one minor damaging CD, so if you're in a group with bad chronos or only 1 chrono it won't affect you as hard as everyone else. Or if you have unreliable healers, you can sacrifice some dps to slot in Invigorating Precision for all of the self healing you could need. That's compounded by having a near unlimited amounts of evades (which do damage!) and quick positioning from vault, which are so you don't lose out on much dps when you need to avoid mechanics. Plus the only real restriction on the rotation is that you have to stay in melee range of the target, which bounding dodge and weakening charge/vault help out on, so even on movement heavy fights like Vale Guardian or Slothosar we're not losing much dps unlike builds that require the boss to stay in their damaging fields. The only fights that power daredevil really struggles on are ones where your rotation is constantly being interrupted or where you need to stand in safe zones away from the boss, challenge mode Cairn being a great example of a fight that's horrible for staff. We also supply free weakness and vulnerability, which helps to keep those capped for everyone else.

I started out with power staff daredevil for raids (cause full vipers was way more expensive than full berserkers) and for the most part it does just fine. There's the rare times when I've been rejected out of prejudice for not being the perfect meta class (which I'm sure has happened to 95% of us over the years), but once actually in a raid I've never been kicked for low dps.

But yeah, thief is in a good spot overall for PVE. Not OP and so not in danger of nerfs, but still solid enough performance that won't get you kicked. Thought we do only fulfill one role in raids and that is pure dps, whereas other classes with access to support builds would give you more flexibility, if that's more your thing.

[Faaris.8013]

What Aplier said, I have one addition though. Since your main damage comes from staff only, it is heavily dependend on quickness. So even if chrono's alacrity doesn't really affect you, its quickness boon does. Without any source for quickness, you will deal maybe 30% less of your potential damage. Chrono is the thief's best friend, but other classes can provide quickness too. I use https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Haste when I get not enough quickness, which has a low cooldown, and even less with alacrity (the irony...).

Oh, and since you decided to play this class: It is "THIEF"

[Dahkeus.8243]

Currently, thief isn’t that great for most PvE. It’s not terrible and is competitive enough with the right build in some areas, but thief is really a class that shines the most in PvP.

[Faaris.8013]

@"Dahkeus.8243" said:Currently, thief isn’t that great for most PvE. It’s not terrible and is competitive enough with the right build in some areas, but thief is really a class that shines the most in PvP.

Serious question, why are my guild mates always write things in the chat like "we lost, we got 2 thieves" or "they have thives, this will be an easy match" or people even kick thieves in PvP teams. I've never played PvP in GW2 but always hear complaints about thieves there so I'm surprised that you say that thief shines in PvP.

Also, I'm having a great time with my Power DD in any PvE environment.

[Dahkeus.8243]

@Faaris.8013 said:

@"Dahkeus.8243" said:Currently, thief isn’t that great for most PvE. It’s not terrible and is competitive enough with the right build in some areas, but thief is really a class that shines the most in PvP.

Serious question, why are my guild mates always write things in the chat like "we lost, we got 2 thieves" or "they have thives, this will be an easy match" or people even kick thieves in PvP teams. I've never played PvP in GW2 but always hear complaints about thieves there so I'm surprised that you say that thief shines in PvP.

Also, I'm having a great time with my Power DD in any PvE environment.Thieves generally fill the role of a roamer and you don’t want more than 1 roamer in your team or else you’ll usually be at a disadvantage for team fights since you’ll have less bruisers and bunkers in the mix.

This isn’t always so straight forward though since there are a good number of P/P thieves that don’t really fill the roamer role as well due to decreased mobility. They can be very effective against teams with scourges and can be very good taking out targets in big team fights. However, this is a pretty low skill ceiling build and is usually less effective in higher skilled games.

Also keep in mind that people tend to overestimate the effect of group comp in lower tier games. If you’re at the lower end of platinum or less, this stuff won’t matter nearly as much as other factors. A double thief team can often be better than people expect at lower tiers if the team rotated fast and focuses on side points. People are so used to sending almost everyone to mid for a big fight and just leaving one person at home that any deviation from this strat can really throw people off.

But as you get into higher tier ranked games and AT games, running anything beyond 1 S/D or D/P thief can put you at a big disadvantage. However, having 1 good thief can make or break a match, even if the class doesn’t work well when stacked.

And finally, it can be an unforgiving class to play since it’s incredibly squishy and relies on use of active defense (evades/blinds/stealth) to survive, so often landing 1 good hit can end a thief. However, a good thief is hard to touch at all and often comes out when you’re least able to play offensively.

[Despond.2174]

@Faaris.8013 said:

@"Dahkeus.8243" said:Currently, thief isn’t that great for most PvE. It’s not terrible and is competitive enough with the right build in some areas, but thief is really a class that shines the most in PvP.

Serious question, why are my guild mates always write things in the chat like "we lost, we got 2 thieves" or "they have thives, this will be an easy match" or people even kick thieves in PvP teams. I've never played PvP in GW2 but always hear complaints about thieves there so I'm surprised that you say that thief shines in PvP.

Also, I'm having a great time with my Power DD in any PvE environment.

For spvp 2 thieves is a major hamstring on your win rate compared to other stacked professions and even 1 thief that isn't played well. Given 2 equally skilled side--or close enough--a team only has room for 1 thief due to this meta. It's not a premium teamfighter, it's not the best duelist--can't contest nodes against most of the meta--so it's main role is roaming, stealth+help escape team mates, some decapping and mainly +1ing; spiking damage, getting out.D/P DD isn't doing as good in this meta,--not bad but not as good as last previous seasons--S/D is solid and better against the meta but once again a player has to be decently skilled to make a thief worthwhile. Other classes can be stacked and played @ a much lower skill cap and bring overall more strength to a team, 2 scourges, 2 warriors, 2 anything. That's why they are sighing when their team has 2 thieves, it's far from optimal - doable maybe lower ranks but @ higher ranks where everyone is relatively close it's nearly always a loss if your opponernts have anything close to meta.PVE it's good, but it's not great. It has some easy rotations and decent damage output but other than that other classes bring more utility and options to the table while providing the same or better DPS.Open World it's amazing, easily my favorite profession outside of my tank SB. Fractals it's decent, but very unforgiving if you're running the usual zerk staff build. One slip and you'll be downed, while other profs have a bit more leeway.

So TL:DR: It's ok and definitely not bad but many professions bring more to the table hence it's less desirable.

[Dahkeus.8243]

It’s also worth mentioning that having a D/P and P/P thief is much less of a handicap than two D/P thieves since D/P relies much more on decapping and is less useful in big fights.

[Tails.9372]

@"Faaris.8013" said:Serious question, why are my guild mates always write things in the chat like "we lost, we got 2 thieves" or "they have thives, this will be an easy match" or people even kick thieves in PvP teams.Because other classes do pretty much the same thing but better. It can faceroll noobs in low level play and can be annoying to fight against, that's why some people think thief is OP but that's about it.