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@Vulf.3098 said:

@"Warcry.1596" said:I agree with the above, though I don't run a meter. Play what you like, don't join a group if you cant play whats being looked for. I play necro only in T4s and raiding, so my group choices are slim.. But I do find them. I look for groups that say"T4s with 99/100cm" or something generic that doesnt require anything specific. Those are usually the groups that, in my experience, have the most success.

The spec gets a lot of negative stigma from something maybe people are just mad about how good it is in pvp and wvw lol. I play necro a lot in t4's 99 and 100cms and people often are surprised with certain things this spec can do. The entire uncategorized fractal can be cheesed with flesh wurm and epidemic while chaos fractal almost always results in me soloing the last 40% on the last boss because pugs mess that fight up often.

True, a friend of mine usually plays Necro in Fractals, and he's usually close or the top dps on bosses, but then again he does play a meta build.Scourge is really fun on fractals, and i don't have any problem with scourge, or any class for that matter. I have problems with individual bad players.I mean DD and Weaver are really good DPSers, but i usually cringe when i see one join the party, because 1 in 3 of those, healer or no, they'll be dead 70% of the time.There's bad players in all classes, and there's kittenholes in every community.Just play the game you want to play and let others do the same.

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@Faaris.8013 said:

@"Vulf.3098" said:You are complaining about a healer that you know is under performing but yet you can't adapt to the situation in t4's where hardly any damage is going out.

You keep either misreading or not reading my posts. Just stop replying to them if you are not willing to do that. I clearly wrote that we adjusted and finished the run, it's here in this thread, you just have to read. Same with the difference between "faster and more efficient" and "fastest and most efficient".

After the wipe. But i guess it is easier to blame people instead on trivial content.

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@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"Warcry.1596" said:I agree with the above, though I don't run a meter. Play what you like, don't join a group if you cant play whats being looked for. I play necro only in T4s and raiding, so my group choices are slim.. But I do find them. I look for groups that say"T4s with 99/100cm" or something generic that doesnt require anything specific. Those are usually the groups that, in my experience, have the most success.

The spec gets a lot of negative stigma from something maybe people are just mad about how good it is in pvp and wvw lol. I play necro a lot in t4's 99 and 100cms and people often are surprised with certain things this spec can do. The entire uncategorized fractal can be cheesed with flesh wurm and epidemic while chaos fractal almost always results in me soloing the last 40% on the last boss because pugs mess that fight up often.

True, a friend of mine usually plays Necro in Fractals, and he's usually close or the top dps on bosses, but then again he does play a meta build.Scourge is really fun on fractals, and i don't have any problem with scourge, or any class for that matter. I have problems with individual bad players.I mean DD and Weaver are really good DPSers, but i usually cringe when i see one join the party, because 1 in 3 of those, healer or no, they'll be dead 70% of the time.There's bad players in all classes, and there's kittenholes in every community.Just play the game you want to play and let others do the same.

I mean poor play is going to affect the run no matter what the comp is, but when I see post complaining about actual wipes it is not that 1 persons entire fault the group wiped when you can very easily adapt during the fight and kill the boss with the healer dead or not healing. It may take longer to kill but if a wipe occures it was a combination of things.

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@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

  1. It's fine that you want a Druid
  2. But why do you want a Druid when the party spits 25 might to each other anyway and you don't need dedicated healing in fractals?
  3. How am I wrong on 3? lol my statement agrees with you. But for rest of your statement, please refer back to my 2.
  4. I'm definitely not wrong on 4, considering that a full DPS party, casually blasting 25 might on each other, in a game mode that doesn't require a dedicated healer, can easily and more efficiently clear the T4 fractals in about 10 less minutes on average than a party with a heal druid.

The idea of a game mode "meta", in all game modes, game-wide in Guild Wars 2, has always and still is being designed around the idea of: Maximize DPS output and only have the defensive mechanisms that you need. The idea is to be time efficient in a game based around grinding. The big misconception that raid elite groups bleeding into fractals are misunderstanding is: Fractals are not hard bro. Even 99CM is not hard. 100CM is the only fractal requiring a 5 man raid subsquad.

So, your post is stating there are better comps than the actual meta although the recent fractal speed runs I've seen were made with fractal meta!? I exclude "fractals are not hard bro" because we all know that but efficient players want to be efficient. We don't act like: "Hey, everybody can do T4 so everybody can join my run."

No doubt that you can blast might with other classes - works in pugs for the first 10s in a fight, then everybody is doing their rotation and nobody cares about the 25 cap resulting in a way lower stack at around 10 or below in all cases - no exception. The old meta handled with a phalanx strength war and groups needed that class very badly or again: you would never have reached the 25 stacks over the whole fight!I suggest you to present us an own 100% working comp within the actual patch situation for pugs. There's no reason to not have it on 100% otherwise the discussion is over and people that want to have an optimal environment in pugs will go back to the existing meta because - surprise surprise - it is working so much better than everything else.

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@Vulf.3098 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:You are complaining about a healer that you know is under performing but yet you can't adapt to the situation in t4's where hardly any damage is going out.

You keep either misreading or not reading my posts. Just stop replying to them if you are not willing to do that. I clearly wrote that we adjusted and finished the run, it's here in this thread, you just have to read. Same with the difference between "faster and more efficient" and "fastest and most efficient".

After the wipe. But i guess it is easier to blame people instead on trivial content.

Sure, we know the content because we do this every day for a long time. We know how we perform on it because we have the experience necessary to make that kind of judgement. This experience also allows us to make a pretty good guess of what/who the issue is. I'm playing a glass cannon and I know exactly how good a healer is when I play. But I have to play with that healer first because unlike the content, I know little about him. When you have a healer in the group, you give him the benefit of doubt and trait for full damage. Then, when people start dying, you make small adjustments that decreases your dps but gives the healer an easier time. For me, that means traiting Invigorating Precision. Then you keep playing and see what happens, often that one change is enough. When people still keep getting downed, you make another change, maybe eat something that heals when you hit critically. Then you probe again, and if the healer still cannot keep you alive, you make another change, I changed some gear so I have 2k more health (at the cost of even more dps). We thought it would be toxic to just kick, so we wanted to at least finish that fractal.

I think you don't really understand how group compositions work. Of course you wipe on trivial content if one gear in the machine is broken. But if all gears work fine, you outperform the group that consists of people who gear and trait in a way that would allow them to solo the content (which is what T3 players do). I gave the example with the relay race, but you probably haven't read that either.

Have a good day

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The trash talk on Scourge is due to it's lower direct damage output vs. a single target, which is true vs. something like a Condi Soulbeast or a Burnserk. However, Nothing nuclear bombs mobs or multi boss situations like "uncategorized bunny/bomber/char/ettin" harder than the skill Epidemic, when the Scourge is in a party full of other condi DPS. This seriously speeds up fractal runs in my experience. Not to mention that a Scourge doesn't need a Heal Druid piggybacking him to be able to solo something, even bosses like 99CM MAMA, if a bad party goes down.

~ Good Scourges are a hard party carry in fractals

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@Faaris.8013 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:You are complaining about a healer that you know is under performing but yet you can't adapt to the situation in t4's where hardly any damage is going out.

You keep either misreading or not reading my posts. Just stop replying to them if you are not willing to do that. I clearly wrote that we adjusted and finished the run, it's here in this thread, you just have to read. Same with the difference between "faster and more efficient" and "fastest and most efficient".

After the wipe. But i guess it is easier to blame people instead on trivial content.

Sure, we know the content because we do this every day for a long time. We know how we perform on it because we have the experience necessary to make that kind of judgement. This experience also allows us to make a pretty good guess of what/who the issue is. I'm playing a glass cannon and I know exactly how good a healer is when I play. But I have to play with that healer first because unlike the content, I know little about him. When you have a healer in the group, you give him the benefit of doubt and trait for full damage. Then, when people start dying, you make small adjustments that decreases your dps but gives the healer an easier time. For me, that means traiting Invigorating Precision. Then you keep playing and see what happens, often that one change is enough. When people still keep getting downed, you make another change, maybe eat something that heals when you hit critically. Then you probe again, and if the healer still cannot keep you alive, you make another change, I changed some gear so I have 2k more health (at the cost of even more dps). We thought it would be toxic to just kick, so we wanted to at least finish that fractal.

I think you don't really understand how group compositions work. Of course you wipe on trivial content if one gear in the machine is broken. But if all gears work fine, you outperform the group that consists of people who gear and trait in a way that would allow them to solo the content. I gave the example with the relay race, but you probably haven't read that either.

Have a good day

At that point it boils down to you not being as good at the game as you think you are. Just like you I have been doing this content for years but never really got to the point of a wipe (maybe a death or a few downs) because 1 player. It was because 2, 3 or the whole group was also messing things up that caused a full wipe. Like I said i guess it is easier to just blame others.

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@Vulf.3098 said:

@"Warcry.1596" said:I agree with the above, though I don't run a meter. Play what you like, don't join a group if you cant play whats being looked for. I play necro only in T4s and raiding, so my group choices are slim.. But I do find them. I look for groups that say"T4s with 99/100cm" or something generic that doesnt require anything specific. Those are usually the groups that, in my experience, have the most success.

The spec gets a lot of negative stigma from something maybe people are just mad about how good it is in pvp and wvw lol. I play necro a lot in t4's 99 and 100cms and people often are surprised with certain things this spec can do. The entire uncategorized fractal can be cheesed with flesh wurm and epidemic while chaos fractal almost always results in me soloing the last 40% on the last boss because pugs mess that fight up often.

Heh, I generally play Power in T4s but yeah I know what you mean! Always nice to be able to solo stuff like that if the party falls apart.

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My fractal runs yesterday became noticably smoother when I changed to support: nobody was dying anymore. Sure they were going down, but transfusion+ rez trait made them get back up so fast, you'd almost miss the fact that they went down. Point being: support classes make fractals smoother and I would encourage groups to have 1 support, doesn't even need to be druid.

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@Sephylon.4938 said:My fractal runs yesterday became noticably smoother when I changed to support: nobody was dying anymore. Sure they were going down, but transfusion+ rez trait made them get back up so fast, you'd almost miss the fact that they went down. Point being: support classes make fractals smoother and I would encourage groups to have 1 support, doesn't even need to be druid.You are missing a different point that has been made earlier: If people are dying in normal fractals without heal/support, it's not because there's no support. It's because they're not good enough. Running with a healer just lets them push the responsibility for their own faults on a single person.

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It's funny that so many people think players would fail due to lacking skill if the supposed healer is not on point.

It's a simple thing: You bring a druid healer for heal + might so you can go all in and you have big dps numbers. If this druid is out of order you cannot go all in and you're lacking dps - you're lacking BIG DPS because his main priorities are these two things and not the ones of everyone else.It has nothing to do with skill or anything else if you are prepared for this special comp when one wheel is breaking. Of course you can recover and wiggle around finally beating the encounter but that's not Faaris' point and I'm with him in this case.I don't ask for a druid to expect him failing. He has one crucial thing to do and if that's not the case there is no reason to ask for one, period. And another thing: If a druid is going down/dies he must have made something wrong - horribly. I myself play druid from time to time (fractal and raid cms) and it's the easiest thing to stay alive and the hardest to be the first dead player with this class.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Sephylon.4938" said:My fractal runs yesterday became noticably smoother when I changed to support: nobody was dying anymore. Sure they were going down, but transfusion+ rez trait made them get back up so fast, you'd almost miss the fact that they went down. Point being:
support classes make fractals smoother and I would encourage groups to have 1 support, doesn't even need to be druid.
You are missing a different point that has been made earlier:
If people are dying in normal fractals without heal/support, it's not because there's no support. It's because they're not good enough
. Running with a healer just lets them push the responsibility for their own faults on a single person.

I miss the days when most people brought reflects (which can be huge DPS increases!) and blinds in fotm and didn't require a healer. I can still run a meta glass cannon build such as SB, DH or BS in a casual pug group without a healer/chrono and usually not die; when I get downed, it's not the absence of a healer but my own mistake. So I fully agree that it's usually the "dps" player that isn't good enough/adapting to survive. It is annoying when players blame the druid because they cant accept fault.

That being said, I don't leave pug groups if things aren't going super well. I also play with some casual guildies. Nothing I say in the moment is going to make a bad pug play better. Nothing I say is going to make it so that a friend doesn't have RA. So I do what "good" players should do. I adapt. Sometimes it means looking at the group and realizing my Druid buffs aren't doing crap because the group is spread out, so I swap to DH and basically solo stuff. However, sometimes that means swapping to Druid because regardless of how poorly the other players are doing, support classes can make things go really smooth if the team stacks. And if I can make those swaps, but choose not to adapt, those other players are still "at fault", but I am actually at fault there too.

TLDR... I think you are actually missing Sephylon's point. Sure there is an overarching "meta" for gw2 but the actual most efficient tactic available in a group playing poorly (aside from leaving) is swapping to the build that carries the hardest and it's often a support build.

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@Vinceman.4572 said:It's funny that so many people think players would fail due to lacking skill if the supposed healer is not on point.

It's a simple thing: You bring a druid healer for heal + might so you can go all in and you have big dps numbers. If this druid is out of order you cannot go all in and you're lacking dps - you're lacking BIG DPS because his main priorities are these two things and not the ones of everyone else.It has nothing to do with skill or anything else if you are prepared for this special comp when one wheel is breaking. Of course you can recover and wiggle around finally beating the encounter but that's not Faaris' point and I'm with him in this case.I don't ask for a druid to expect him failing. He has one crucial thing to do and if that's not the case there is no reason to ask for one, period. And another thing: If a druid is going down/dies he must have made something wrong - horribly. I myself play druid from time to time (fractal and raid cms) and it's the easiest thing to stay alive and the hardest to be the first dead player with this class.

Support Renegade brings 25 might, superior healing, perma protection, alacrity and deals double druids dps but people still bring druid over it in fractals because they blindly follow what works best in raids.

Just trying to get back on OP's topic.

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@Vulf.3098 said:

@"Warcry.1596" said:I agree with the above, though I don't run a meter. Play what you like, don't join a group if you cant play whats being looked for. I play necro only in T4s and raiding, so my group choices are slim.. But I do find them. I look for groups that say"T4s with 99/100cm" or something generic that doesnt require anything specific. Those are usually the groups that, in my experience, have the most success.

The spec gets a lot of negative stigma from something maybe people are just mad about how good it is in pvp and wvw lol. I play necro a lot in t4's 99 and 100cms and people often are surprised with certain things this spec can do. The entire uncategorized fractal can be cheesed with flesh wurm and epidemic while chaos fractal almost always results in me soloing the last 40% on the last boss because pugs mess that fight up often.

True, a friend of mine usually plays Necro in Fractals, and he's usually close or the top dps on bosses, but then again he does play a meta build.Scourge is really fun on fractals, and i don't have any problem with scourge, or any class for that matter. I have problems with individual bad players.I mean DD and Weaver are really good DPSers, but i usually cringe when i see one join the party, because 1 in 3 of those, healer or no, they'll be dead 70% of the time.There's bad players in all classes, and there's kittenholes in every community.Just play the game you want to play and let others do the same.

I mean poor play is going to affect the run no matter what the comp is, but when I see post complaining about actual wipes it is not that 1 persons entire fault the group wiped when you can very easily adapt during the fight and kill the boss with the healer dead or not healing. It may take longer to kill but if a wipe occures it was a combination of things.

I'm not denying that. But why should the group adapt to the one individual that didn't prepare, instead of expecting that individual to prepare, and conform with the group?In other words, why should 4 people change their playstyle on account of the one person that didn't?> @Vulf.3098 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:It's funny that so many people think players would fail due to lacking skill if the supposed healer is not on point.

It's a simple thing: You bring a druid healer for heal + might so you can go all in
and
you have big dps numbers. If this druid is out of order you cannot go all in
and
you're lacking dps - you're lacking BIG DPS because
his main priorities are these two things and not the ones of everyone else
.It has nothing to do with skill or anything else if you are prepared for this special comp when one wheel is breaking. Of course you can recover and wiggle around finally beating the encounter but that's not Faaris' point and I'm with him in this case.I don't ask for a druid to expect him failing. He has one crucial thing to do and if that's not the case there is no reason to ask for one, period. And another thing: If a druid is going down/dies he must have made something wrong - horribly. I myself play druid from time to time (fractal and raid cms) and it's the easiest thing to stay alive and the hardest to be the first dead player with this class.

Support Renegade brings 25 might, superior healing, perma protection, alacrity and deals double druids dps but people still bring druid over it in fractals because they blindly follow what works best in raids.

Just trying to get back on OP's topic.

I'm pretty sure that even using Ventari Druid still out-heals Renegade... Also Spirits and Spotter!Trust me, if Renegade was all that it would be the best for raids as well. I haven't tried such a build, but i might, just to see what comes out of it ^_^

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@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@"Warcry.1596" said:I agree with the above, though I don't run a meter. Play what you like, don't join a group if you cant play whats being looked for. I play necro only in T4s and raiding, so my group choices are slim.. But I do find them. I look for groups that say"T4s with 99/100cm" or something generic that doesnt require anything specific. Those are usually the groups that, in my experience, have the most success.

The spec gets a lot of negative stigma from something maybe people are just mad about how good it is in pvp and wvw lol. I play necro a lot in t4's 99 and 100cms and people often are surprised with certain things this spec can do. The entire uncategorized fractal can be cheesed with flesh wurm and epidemic while chaos fractal almost always results in me soloing the last 40% on the last boss because pugs mess that fight up often.

True, a friend of mine usually plays Necro in Fractals, and he's usually close or the top dps on bosses, but then again he does play a meta build.Scourge is really fun on fractals, and i don't have any problem with scourge, or any class for that matter. I have problems with individual bad players.I mean DD and Weaver are really good DPSers, but i usually cringe when i see one join the party, because 1 in 3 of those, healer or no, they'll be dead 70% of the time.There's bad players in all classes, and there's kittenholes in every community.Just play the game you want to play and let others do the same.

I mean poor play is going to affect the run no matter what the comp is, but when I see post complaining about actual wipes it is not that 1 persons entire fault the group wiped when you can very easily adapt during the fight and kill the boss with the healer dead or not healing. It may take longer to kill but if a wipe occures it was a combination of things.

I'm not denying that. But why should the group adapt to the one individual that didn't prepare, instead of expecting that individual to prepare, and conform with the group?In other words, why should 4 people change their playstyle on account of the one person that didn't?> @Vulf.3098 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:It's funny that so many people think players would fail due to lacking skill if the supposed healer is not on point.

It's a simple thing: You bring a druid healer for heal + might so you can go all in
and
you have big dps numbers. If this druid is out of order you cannot go all in
and
you're lacking dps - you're lacking BIG DPS because
his main priorities are these two things and not the ones of everyone else
.It has nothing to do with skill or anything else if you are prepared for this special comp when one wheel is breaking. Of course you can recover and wiggle around finally beating the encounter but that's not Faaris' point and I'm with him in this case.I don't ask for a druid to expect him failing. He has one crucial thing to do and if that's not the case there is no reason to ask for one, period. And another thing: If a druid is going down/dies he must have made something wrong - horribly. I myself play druid from time to time (fractal and raid cms) and it's the easiest thing to stay alive and the hardest to be the first dead player with this class.

Support Renegade brings 25 might, superior healing, perma protection, alacrity and deals double druids dps but people still bring druid over it in fractals because they blindly follow what works best in raids.

Just trying to get back on OP's topic.

I'm pretty sure that even using Ventari Druid still out-heals Renegade... Also Spirits and Spotter!Trust me, if Renegade was all that it would be the best for raids as well. I haven't tried such a build, but i might, just to see what comes out of it ^_^

So you would rather wipe mid pull instead of doing mechanics because the healer isn't performing? With pugs you are not going to get good players all the time.

Druid is not even close to the best healer in the game in terms of hps output. Ele and Herald or Renegade are far superior in that regard with firebrand not far behind those 2 but a little inconsistent. The reason druid is brought in raids is for their unique buffs with healing coming secondary.

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@Vulf.3098 said:

@"Vinceman.4572" said:It's funny that so many people think players would fail due to lacking skill if the supposed healer is not on point.

It's a simple thing: You bring a druid healer for heal + might so you can go all in
and
you have big dps numbers. If this druid is out of order you cannot go all in
and
you're lacking dps - you're lacking BIG DPS because
his main priorities are these two things and not the ones of everyone else
.It has nothing to do with skill or anything else if you are prepared for this special comp when one wheel is breaking. Of course you can recover and wiggle around finally beating the encounter but that's not Faaris' point and I'm with him in this case.I don't ask for a druid to expect him failing. He has one crucial thing to do and if that's not the case there is no reason to ask for one, period. And another thing: If a druid is going down/dies he must have made something wrong - horribly. I myself play druid from time to time (fractal and raid cms) and it's the easiest thing to stay alive and the hardest to be the first dead player with this class.

Support Renegade brings 25 might, superior healing, perma protection, alacrity and deals double druids dps but people still bring druid over it in fractals because they blindly follow what works best in raids.

Just trying to get back on OP's topic.

Still haven't seen any good video run/proof that a comp with Renegade is so much superior than with a druid. Also, not every pug/group is blindly following the meta. I'm in a casual raid guild with 2-4 people being a little bit better and there is much discussion and theorycrafting going on. I've seen the same in other guilds - the druid is still the way to go and there's no sign of changing atm. because reasons.

Since I'm so much faster with the current fractal meta there is zero reason for me to swap to another comp and the same counts for the OP. He can avoid rigid meta groups as being said many times in this thread now. I respect his lfgs/attitudes/playstyle and he has to respect mine.

And I disagree, in meta pugs groups it's more likely to get better players than in the standard "T4" group and that is increased even more if we are playing challenges motes - on a daily basis btw.

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@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:It's funny that so many people think players would fail due to lacking skill if the supposed healer is not on point.

It's a simple thing: You bring a druid healer for heal + might so you can go all in
and
you have big dps numbers. If this druid is out of order you cannot go all in
and
you're lacking dps - you're lacking BIG DPS because
his main priorities are these two things and not the ones of everyone else
.It has nothing to do with skill or anything else if you are prepared for this special comp when one wheel is breaking. Of course you can recover and wiggle around finally beating the encounter but that's not Faaris' point and I'm with him in this case.I don't ask for a druid to expect him failing. He has one crucial thing to do and if that's not the case there is no reason to ask for one, period. And another thing: If a druid is going down/dies he must have made something wrong - horribly. I myself play druid from time to time (fractal and raid cms) and it's the easiest thing to stay alive and the hardest to be the first dead player with this class.

Support Renegade brings 25 might, superior healing, perma protection, alacrity and deals double druids dps but people still bring druid over it in fractals because they blindly follow what works best in raids.

Just trying to get back on OP's topic.

Still haven't seen any good video run/proof that a comp with Renegade is so much superior than with a druid. Not every pug/group is blindly following the meta. I'm in a casual raid guild with 2-4 people being a little bit better and there is much discussion and theorycrafting going on. I've seen the same in other guilds - the druid is still the way to go and there's no sign of changing atm. because reasons.

Since I'm so much faster with the current fractal meta there is zero reason for me to swap to another comp and the same counts for the OP. He can avoid rigid meta groups as being said many times in this thread now. I respect his lfgs/attitudes/playstyle so he has to respect mine.And I disagree, in meta groups it's more likely to get better players than in the standard "T4" group and that is increased even more if we are playing challenges motes.

The reason the Firebrand and Renegade sub group combo is not run in raids often is because it is a high risk high reward playstyle that pugs will very easily mess up despite the comp bringing in more heals and dps. People will always go for the easiest route unless the gap is big enough to push people into learning it properly.

A recent 5man Sabetha kill running that comp proves thisYT video -

Kill log - https://dps.report/IyNv-20180108-184938_sabReddit post - https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/7pgecv/ln_restricted_5_man_sabetha_kill_no_druid_or/

As you can see in the log that this comp brings a pretty noticeable amount more dps and boon uptime compared to the standard druid/chrono sub group. Of course the other sub group will still have to have a chrono tank for other bosses and their mechanics.

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all DPS oriented raid builds require a healing druidLol.Raids only need them due to stuff like damage auras that cannot be mitigated through other means.

Your "reasons" for why people want an optimised team are completely and utterly flawed. However they do show that you need to drink more water and consume less salt..

People want optimised groups so they can get their farming over and done with, and because they enjoy going fast. Same reason people buy super cars - to go fast

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@Vulf.3098 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:As for Twilight Oasis I have solo'd it a couple times already first with Trailblazer Necro with Aristocracy Runes and again with Vipers + Aristocracy.

Well done :)Which emphasizes the on-topic point: knowing the mechanics is more important than the team comp or anyone's build. There might be elitist LFGs, but people can ignore them and join/start groups that care more about other things. Either way of running the content is fine; the problems only start when someone insists on imposing their way on others.

I'm reminded by an argument by metapushers about 4 years ago ... where some of them soloed Arah Dungeon with a Bow bear in some defensive gear. Somehow, they were all proud of 'proving' how important meta was by this little demonstration. A pretty self-gratifying smirk come over my face; Oh yes, way to demonstrate the necessity of meta ... by soloing the hardest content (at the time) with the worst possible build :expressionless:

Seems we are seeing a little of this with some posters in this thread; indeed what you say is correct, mechanics trumps build, always. The metapushers already proved that (at their own expense, which only made the point sweeter)

Elitism will not go away; it's how players handle it and how they interact with elitist players that will help avoid it. I'm all for these players; after all, they are just playing how they want, just like anyone else should be.

Most of the bosses in Arah were buggy as hell back then (Belka, Lupi, and Brie still are) to where you could exploit ability stacking into specific spots or instantly kill them with reflects.

And? That STILL doesn't change the fact that Metapushers killed their own arguments for soloing instanced team content with non-meta builds. You are under the impression that Arah was the only dungeon they could solo?

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Vulf.3098 said:As for Twilight Oasis I have solo'd it a couple times already first with Trailblazer Necro with Aristocracy Runes and again with Vipers + Aristocracy.

Well done :)Which emphasizes the on-topic point: knowing the mechanics is more important than the team comp or anyone's build. There might be elitist LFGs, but people can ignore them and join/start groups that care more about other things. Either way of running the content is fine; the problems only start when someone insists on imposing their way on others.

I'm reminded by an argument by metapushers about 4 years ago ... where some of them soloed Arah Dungeon with a Bow bear in some defensive gear. Somehow, they were all proud of 'proving' how important meta was by this little demonstration. A pretty self-gratifying smirk come over my face; Oh yes, way to demonstrate the necessity of meta ... by soloing the hardest content (at the time) with the worst possible build :expressionless:

Seems we are seeing a little of this with some posters in this thread; indeed what you say is correct, mechanics trumps build, always. The metapushers already proved that (at their own expense, which only made the point sweeter)

Elitism will not go away; it's how players handle it and how they interact with elitist players that will help avoid it. I'm all for these players; after all, they are just playing how they want, just like anyone else should be.

Most of the bosses in Arah were buggy as hell back then (Belka, Lupi, and Brie still are) to where you could exploit ability stacking into specific spots or instantly kill them with reflects.

And? That STILL doesn't change the fact that Metapushers killed their own arguments for soloing instanced team content with non-meta builds. You are under the impression that Arah was the only dungeon they could solo?

Soloing dungeon content with an exploit kinda loses its purpose if you are trying to make a point.

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So you're saying that all their solo runs were using an exploit? Interesting. I would love to see what they think of your claim.

Still, the same ideas are surfacing in this thread, and they are still as irrelevant as the first day someone told me I was being 'selfish' because I wasn't playing meta.

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@Obtena.7952 said:So you're saying that all their solo runs were using an exploit? Interesting. I would love to see what they think of your claim.

Still, the same ideas are surfacing in this thread, and they are still as irrelevant as the first day someone told me I was being 'selfish' because I wasn't playing meta.

I am not saying that but when you use a dungeon that is notorious for being poorly designed and buggy as an example what did you expect to hear?

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