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Necro vs thief


Nova.3817

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hey guys.....little back ground----- im playing power necro GS /axe/warhorn ...Util is all wails elite is chill to the bone

currently around 50 on the leader boards .... i lost 2 games yesterday to my shame getting farmed by a thief (same thief 2 games in a row) playing power...

both times were on Forrest where i was originally going mid and see the thief crossing to our home... the first game i went back to help home in which we already had a Mesmer capping the thief basically 2 shot me (once i had no blanket aoe to spam on myself when i ran back the thief left point, when he did the mesmer started to mid and the thief went on me and the Mesmer continued to mid) .....2nd game i went to mid rather then go home which we won but alas we had a 1 cap to the opponents 2 cap...so i ran back to home to cap and yet again thief puts me in the dumpster in the road(i know this is where necro is weak)....

my question is how do i take this engagement is there a tell i should be watching for to win the fight or should i just run and avoid the fight....everytime i would fight this thief soon as i would get able to attack he would blink to the upper level...i could never get more then 80% dmg before he was safely away and i couldnt run bc if i did he would gank me in road between home and mid... anyways tips on how to handle thief?

PS- when i played condi necro, thief wasnt much trouble so it may be a simple issue of the build but im curious what other high level necros are using to deal with thief play

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@Nova.3817 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:Power necro + minions. You can just turn your back and let the minions kill thiev. Barbaric Amulet + Death Magic traitline.

if a high plat thief dies to minions i think i may leave gw2 for good lol

He will die unless he moves to other class. Thievs HP makes it impossible survive, theres no "skill" or magic here. Remenber Thiev is too much single target, even the conditions spammer takes too much time killing one by one, most of thiev prefer run from minion-necro than fight.

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Unfortunately yes, power necro tends to lose out to power thief due to the thief's mobility. They will nigh always escape you. A good build is surprisingly half/half power/condi. Necro's have the tools to make it work.My own build is a half/half reaper. Focus on chilling the enemy to destroy their mobility. I'm built more for team fights though, in a 1v1 my build can't shine but it can still lock down an enemy and grind them down.

No matter how we build we aren't great for the roads. We really do excel at picking a node and just bunkering in and making it uncapturable.

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@Runiir.6425 said:Unfortunately yes, power necro tends to lose out to power thief due to the thief's mobility. They will nigh always escape you. A good build is surprisingly half/half power/condi. Necro's have the tools to make it work.My own build is a half/half reaper. Focus on chilling the enemy to destroy their mobility. I'm built more for team fights though, in a 1v1 my build can't shine but it can still lock down an enemy and grind them down.

No matter how we build we aren't great for the roads. We really do excel at picking a node and just bunkering in and making it uncapturable.

yeah this, btw, if he try pick-up a node(specially home node), fail and run, he lost time and effort, u win. Thievs run when fail do damage, or when they take to much damage.

if running minion build, sometimes they are lured to try kill the minions, then Axe 2 on it. if they try u instead of minion, spam the minions CC skills then Axe 2.

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Try running Spectral Wall... It's great vs thief 1v1 to cover your heals or to interrupt his steal with (which you can then use to catch him with a burst combo). I don't know if it's worth taking blindly in any game with a thief on the other team, but like in the 2nd game against him, since you recognized him and knew what he was all about already, it would have been nice to have a few dueling skills to turn it around vs him rather than running the same utilities as the first match and hoping things went differently somehow?

But like, it's almost impossible to actually kill a thief as necro unless he makes some major mistakes... But with a good amount of life force, you can fend him off and make him waste enough of his time screwing with you that you can count it as a win (sort of.)

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@narcx.3570 said:Try running Spectral Wall... It's great vs thief 1v1 to cover your heals or to interrupt his steal with (which you can then use to catch him with a burst combo). I don't know if it's worth taking blindly in any game with a thief on the other team, but like in the 2nd game against him, since you recognized him and knew what he was all about already, it would have been nice to have a few dueling skills to turn it around vs him rather than running the same utilities as the first match and hoping things went differently somehow?

But like, it's almost impossible to actually kill a thief as necro unless he makes some major mistakes... But with a good amount of life force, you can fend him off and make him waste enough of his time screwing with you that you can count it as a win (sort of.)

this is actually the reality that i was in....he jump in id drop aoe he would jump out aoe expires he would jump in id drop aoe rinse and repeat till i was just out of cooldowns and thats the ball game so to speak... the 2nd game we had a thief on our team so i figured he would be able to keep him at bay but wasnt the case....

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If you want to kill a thief you have to lock them down. Blind, fear, and chill makes a thief's life miserable and we have easy access to them all. Build depending of course.As always though, the goal with any combat against a thief isn't even to kill them, just scare them away but leave them a glimmer of hope they can come back and hurt you. You do that well and you waste the thief's time and essentially eliminate them from the match.

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@Nova.3817 said:

@narcx.3570 said:Try running Spectral Wall... It's great vs thief 1v1 to cover your heals or to interrupt his steal with (which you can then use to catch him with a burst combo). I don't know if it's worth taking blindly in any game with a thief on the other team, but like in the 2nd game against him, since you recognized him and knew what he was all about already, it would have been nice to have a few dueling skills to turn it around vs him rather than running the same utilities as the first match and hoping things went differently somehow?

But like, it's almost impossible to actually kill a thief as necro unless he makes some major mistakes... But with a good amount of life force, you can fend him off and make him waste enough of his time screwing with you that you can count it as a win (sort of.)

this is actually the reality that i was in....he jump in id drop aoe he would jump out aoe expires he would jump in id drop aoe rinse and repeat till i was just out of cooldowns and thats the ball game so to speak... the 2nd game we had a thief on our team so i figured he would be able to keep him at bay but wasnt the case....

Yeah, it's just a super busted matchup... Doesn't seem like much help is coming from scourge either. Sacrificing shroud 2 and stability for barrier spam... :dissapointed:

One of the biggest things that made me fall in love with rev after playing so many matches as necro was having the tools to A) chase a thief and B.) cover my bursts with instacast reveal.

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Well usually I don't run towards a teef... I try to avoid them, but I really think they love me, so I'm first target (also to guard, and mesmers and war).I always start in places they cannot teleport tho... It makes them mad XD... and makes them want me even more :sweat:I'm not in top plat so prolly your thiefs are way better than my thiefs... I play necro and this season I'm also using Posi's build as GS/wells... Now when fighting a thief, what do I do... They will prolly open with the D/P 3 that blinds and prolly they will have venon in... I use the cleaning well to break stun and clean blind right away... two things bounded to happen, or he's gonna evade scary of the AOE bellow him, or he will just keep attacking , if they stay there I use warhorn 4 right away for the daze and axe 2, if they evade scary they next step might be start to spam pistol 4 for the pulmonary impact, or try to engage and close gap again... either case you can try to pressure with axe 2 try to bait some of his evades and with luck do some damage... After I use axe 2 if he went stealth I use axe 3, if hes spamming pistol 4 I try to bait stawlling weapon... either case I try to find space to change GS and use sword 4. If they close gap with the field they might lose backstab due to blindness.I also use the other fields to generate quickness when Im in GS... using in right time you might hit a sword 3 or autoatacks in the thief... I always play defensively when playing against a thief... When I see them spamming pistol 4 I bait and avoid the pulmonary impact, when they are closing gaps I use wells for area denial and for the quickness and with luck you will hit him a little bit enough to send their HP bellow 50%.
I think my main weapon against a thief is going shroud in the right time, when hes bellow 50% HP and not expecting... Not for the shroud per se, cause staying in shroud just means pulmonary impact to dead... but to proc spinal shivers and spiteful spirit as an unexpected AOE damage can proc enough damage to really hurt the thief.... If I see that after that there is a chance to kill I move out of shroud move back to ace and use axe 2... if not I use shroud to kite. that's my game play against power D/P thiefs...

Since we are helping a fellow necro... I have problems currently with 3 builds : Condi thiefs, DH and stupid as it might seem with Burn guards...If anyone can give me a description of their burst and how to avoid WITH the current Wells build it would be much more than appreciate...

For burn guards I can counter in 1 vs 1 if I can evade judgement but it never happens in real life... So how are you playing against that builds?DH I have problem with high plat DHunters... usually low plat DH I just use the damage well bellow them and pressure with axe they get scare close the gap and I enjoy put corruption bellow me and enjoy quickness and GS damage so not much problem... but the ones using wings of resolve to move around always seems to catch me in the weapon swap in CD and I end up or doing low damage with axe when they are on me, or with they far away when Im in GS... And TBH the GS5 bug really bugs me at this point... cause I most of the times I can corrupt their stability before they are away, but when I try to pull them GS5 fails... really bad...

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@Crinn.7864 said:You don't

Necromancer does not have the tooling required to attack a thief. Necro's mobility is too low and cast times are too long.

The proper way to handle thieves as a necro is to avoid them and hope they don't decide to come after you.

this is what i figured was the only option to just avoid them best as possible...

my next question is in a 2v2 or small fight if one of the opposing players is a thief should you still try to disengage or fight it out?

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@narcx.3570 said:

@Nova.3817 said:

@narcx.3570 said:Try running Spectral Wall... It's great vs thief 1v1 to cover your heals or to interrupt his steal with (which you can then use to catch him with a burst combo). I don't know if it's worth taking blindly in any game with a thief on the other team, but like in the 2nd game against him, since you recognized him and knew what he was all about already, it would have been nice to have a few dueling skills to turn it around vs him rather than running the same utilities as the first match and hoping things went differently somehow?

But like, it's almost impossible to actually kill a thief as necro unless he makes some major mistakes... But with a good amount of life force, you can fend him off and make him waste enough of his time screwing with you that you can count it as a win (sort of.)

this is actually the reality that i was in....he jump in id drop aoe he would jump out aoe expires he would jump in id drop aoe rinse and repeat till i was just out of cooldowns and thats the ball game so to speak... the 2nd game we had a thief on our team so i figured he would be able to keep him at bay but wasnt the case....

Yeah, it's just a super busted matchup... Doesn't seem like much help is coming from scourge either. Sacrificing shroud 2 and stability for barrier spam... :dissapointed:

One of the biggest things that made me fall in love with rev after playing so many matches as necro was having the tools to A) chase a thief and B.) cover my bursts with instacast reveal.

probably a glorious feeling lol

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As a power necro, i have alot of luck against a thief (1v1). I am glass though, and traited axe, so if a thief jumps me, i try to anticipate where he's going and lead him into a well, then try to get a good spin into it. But the main thing is to get him with axe #2. If it hits, he's usually close to death and running. If he resets, i switch to gs, drop nightfall on myself (i also pop locust). This will make a good thief back off, giving shroud time to get off CD. if he dives in after nightfall expires, either hit him with axe, drop a well on yourself (if off cd) or go into shroud to sorta reset the fight (i use shroud #5 to make him back off again and give my other skills time to get off cd). Oh, and use shroud #3 against those cc-locking thieves. if they miss their first cc in their chain, they are easier to kil.

I troubles i have with thief as a power necro is if the thief is condi, or has a friend. The condi thief will eat me alive in my build, but if i see they coming, i switch my gs for staff and horm for OH dagger. But i don't always have time to switch. Power necro, to me though, is more fun, as it's high reward, high risk. I have no respect for the condi necros. I have a set, but its the most OP, boring gameplay there is. You don't even have to aim any of your skills to get kills.

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@Nova.3817 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:You don't

Necromancer does not have the tooling required to attack a thief. Necro's mobility is too low and cast times are too long.

The proper way to handle thieves as a necro is to avoid them and hope they don't decide to come after you.

this is what i figured was the only option to just avoid them best as possible...

my next question is in a 2v2 or small fight if one of the opposing players is a thief should you still try to disengage or fight it out?

Fight it out. Necros can't disengage well. If you manage to do so, especially with a thief involved, it's because they chose to ignore you and focused on your ally.

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@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Nova.3817 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:You don't

Necromancer does not have the tooling required to attack a thief. Necro's mobility is too low and cast times are too long.

The proper way to handle thieves as a necro is to avoid them and hope they don't decide to come after you.

this is what i figured was the only option to just avoid them best as possible...

my next question is in a 2v2 or small fight if one of the opposing players is a thief should you still try to disengage or fight it out?

Fight it out. Necros can't disengage well. If you manage to do so, especially with a thief involved, it's because they chose to ignore you and focused on your ally.

that typically my play but i just seem to be killed so quick seems like the wrong play unless the thief messes up big league but most good thiefsmake it look easy. 3

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@Nova.3817 said:

@Nova.3817 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:You don't

Necromancer does not have the tooling required to attack a thief. Necro's mobility is too low and cast times are too long.

The proper way to handle thieves as a necro is to avoid them and hope they don't decide to come after you.

this is what i figured was the only option to just avoid them best as possible...

my next question is in a 2v2 or small fight if one of the opposing players is a thief should you still try to disengage or fight it out?

Fight it out. Necros can't disengage well. If you manage to do so, especially with a thief involved, it's because they chose to ignore you and focused on your ally.

that typically my play but i just seem to be killed so quick seems like the wrong play unless the thief messes up big league but most good thiefsmake it look easy. 3

Yeah, but "disengage" just means that you die anyway and can't take advantage of any mistakes on the thief's part.

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Unless you're a scrapper or druid, you're dying to a thief gank. DH can duel thief as well, but cannot survive +1 as well as scrapper or druid.

Basically, roll a scrapper to spit on thieves.

Necro is a garbage 1v1 class. It has no longevity because their self healing is terrible and once they run out of life force they can't do anything to reset or recover.

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@Nova.3817 said:

@Nova.3817 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:You don't

Necromancer does not have the tooling required to attack a thief. Necro's mobility is too low and cast times are too long.

The proper way to handle thieves as a necro is to avoid them and hope they don't decide to come after you.

this is what i figured was the only option to just avoid them best as possible...

my next question is in a 2v2 or small fight if one of the opposing players is a thief should you still try to disengage or fight it out?

Fight it out. Necros can't disengage well. If you manage to do so, especially with a thief involved, it's because they chose to ignore you and focused on your ally.

that typically my play but i just seem to be killed so quick seems like the wrong play unless the thief messes up big league but most good thiefsmake it look easy. 3

I think attacking the thief relentlessly is your only play in most situations. They may be able to 2-shot you but the same happens in reverse too. You can 2-shot them as well if you land basically anything, especially axe #2 or either of your stuns. And if you deal enough damage, you may be able to scare them off. Do you play with Foot in the Grave? You should if not. Kinda neutralizes basi venom as a threat.

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All power builds have issues 1v1ing a thief except Warriors and Guards. I found that stability and retaliation help a lot when fighting one. If you don't wanna change your build just for one pesty thief I would pick the trait in Soul Reaping that gives stability and breaks stuns when you enter shroud, should be fairly helpful.

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@MikeL.8260 said:All power builds have issues 1v1ing a thief except Warriors and Guards. I found that stability and retaliation help a lot when fighting one. If you don't wanna change your build just for one pesty thief I would pick the trait in Soul Reaping that gives stability and breaks stuns when you enter shroud, should be fairly helpful.

Wells build doesnt use SR... however If you are using power corrupt build you have to remember that steal, steals stability before it dazes... So praticaly you are giving free stability to the teef and still getting the daze, the idea is to use it only when he has steal in CD... doesnt worth a trait, you can do the same just poping CTTD and hoping it also hits the teef when hes in stealth...

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try to avoid 1v1 a thief stay in a teamfight and with your support thats your role as a necro. Because of pulm impact the lack of stability and your cast times a d/p thief will always win or at least not die if he doesnt get to greedy. If you find yourself in a 1v1 against a thief look at the minimap where your teammates are if they are nearby try to get to them if not or if they are on the way to you because you are onpoint you have to fight running kills you. When you fight try to survive until someone +1 you (preferably your thief so ping on your position at the minimap ) and to make the thief disengage. to survive you have to kite! there are a fiew unportable spotts in this game where the thief cant steal from you use them predict the engage and bait it (if you see that hes engaging spam autoatk and dodge as soon as he goes in 1200 range for example) use axe 2 to deal dmg dont use skills when the thief is in stealth to engage unless hes far away then you can use a well or gs4 ; generally fight a thief not with your gs but with axe wh try to rupt his stealth combo with wh4 or gs5 ; go near his blindfields put aoe down and when you cant rupt his hs use axe2 use spectral armor or the well as a stunbreaker, remember that every skill wich channels will follow the thief in stealth if you had targetted him; dont use shroud 3 before he has stolen ; let him engage and counteratk this is the oerfect time for shroud 3; if you have stabbi you can engage ; if he spamms headshot let him and dont use skills, if you run with the blindness well use it when hes melee range; and again the key is kiting kiting kiting.

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