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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We looked up the match. 3 people on the all necro team swapped. Looking at the chat logs, this was coordinated.

The scenario in the screenshot will never happen with our current matchmaker settings. We have a hard rule of no more than +1 of a class.

But if you can swap after entering a game, why bother with code in the MM that prevents it? Kind of moot, no?

OR... why not always hard-cap at 2 types of a prof, even if swapping... (give an error if you try to swap to a prof that is already over-represented)???

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@pah.4931 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We looked up the match. 3 people on the all necro team swapped. Looking at the chat logs, this was coordinated.

The scenario in the screenshot will never happen with our current matchmaker settings. We have a hard rule of no more than +1 of a class.

But if you can swap after entering a game, why bother with code in the MM that prevents it? Kind of moot, no?

OR... why not always hard-cap at 2 types of a prof, even if swapping... (give an error if you try to swap to a prof that is already over-represented)???

We currently allow class swapping because the community voted to keep it. There are good things and bad things about this, as the community has discussed a lot.

We have talked about preventing swapping if it would violate the +1 rule, so we're not opposed to it. But it would require a fair amount of new code rather than simple config changes, so it's not something would get to immediately.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We looked up the match. 3 people on the all necro team swapped. Looking at the chat logs, this was coordinated.

The scenario in the screenshot will never happen with our current matchmaker settings. We have a hard rule of no more than +1 of a class.

But if you can swap after entering a game, why bother with code in the MM that prevents it? Kind of moot, no?

OR... why not always hard-cap at 2 types of a prof, even if swapping... (give an error if you try to swap to a prof that is already over-represented)???

We currently allow class swapping because the community voted to keep it. There are good things and bad things about this, as the the community has discussed a lot.

We have talked about preventing swapping if it would violate the +1 rule, so we're not opposed to it. But it would require a fair amount of new code rather than simple config changes, so it's not something would get to immediately.

While you're at it, why not do a poll if people want draft picks in Ranked? That way instead of enforcing the +1 rule, people would have a mechanism to swap classes.I get it it would be a bit hard, like with having to deal with character select, and probably not viable before you establish some sort of build templates. But it would definitely be a leap forward in terms of these issues.

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@"Forgotten by Jana.7819" said:So there is some first hand mm by ANET :D amazing . And its ranked .

KuKA46W.jpg

Nothing ever gonna change .... I have like so many pictures like this and similar LOL .So if you have any pictures like this pls post them , lets laugh about it :D.

The Dementists.......... truly demented lineup.

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@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We looked up the match. 3 people on the all necro team swapped. Looking at the chat logs, this was coordinated.

The scenario in the screenshot will never happen with our current matchmaker settings. We have a hard rule of no more than +1 of a class.

But if you can swap after entering a game, why bother with code in the MM that prevents it? Kind of moot, no?

OR... why not always hard-cap at 2 types of a prof, even if swapping... (give an error if you try to swap to a prof that is already over-represented)???

We currently allow class swapping because the community voted to keep it. There are good things and bad things about this, as the the community has discussed a lot.

We have talked about preventing swapping if it would violate the +1 rule, so we're not opposed to it. But it would require a fair amount of new code rather than simple config changes, so it's not something would get to immediately.

While you're at it, why not do a poll if people want draft picks in Ranked? That way instead of enforcing the +1 rule, people would have a mechanism to swap classes.I get it it would be a bit hard, like with having to deal with character select, and probably not viable before you establish some sort of build templates. But it would definitely be a leap forward in terms of these issues.

Before that i think we should have Build Templates, because if you are forced on a comp that is for example full bunker and you can't switch character. Fully changing build and coordinating might take a fairly amount of time.

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@Emtiarbi.3281 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We looked up the match. 3 people on the all necro team swapped. Looking at the chat logs, this was coordinated.

The scenario in the screenshot will never happen with our current matchmaker settings. We have a hard rule of no more than +1 of a class.

But if you can swap after entering a game, why bother with code in the MM that prevents it? Kind of moot, no?

OR... why not always hard-cap at 2 types of a prof, even if swapping... (give an error if you try to swap to a prof that is already over-represented)???

We currently allow class swapping because the community voted to keep it. There are good things and bad things about this, as the the community has discussed a lot.

We have talked about preventing swapping if it would violate the +1 rule, so we're not opposed to it. But it would require a fair amount of new code rather than simple config changes, so it's not something would get to immediately.

While you're at it, why not do a poll if people want draft picks in Ranked? That way instead of enforcing the +1 rule, people would have a mechanism to swap classes.I get it it would be a bit hard, like with having to deal with character select, and probably not viable before you establish some sort of build templates. But it would definitely be a leap forward in terms of these issues.

Before that i think we should have Build Templates, because if you are forced on a comp that is for example full bunker and you can't switch character. Fully changing build and coordinating might take a fairly amount of time.

I said so myself didn't i? I consider that a "twofer"

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@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We looked up the match. 3 people on the all necro team swapped. Looking at the chat logs, this was coordinated.

The scenario in the screenshot will never happen with our current matchmaker settings. We have a hard rule of no more than +1 of a class.

But if you can swap after entering a game, why bother with code in the MM that prevents it? Kind of moot, no?

OR... why not always hard-cap at 2 types of a prof, even if swapping... (give an error if you try to swap to a prof that is already over-represented)???

We currently allow class swapping because the community voted to keep it. There are good things and bad things about this, as the the community has discussed a lot.

We have talked about preventing swapping if it would violate the +1 rule, so we're not opposed to it. But it would require a fair amount of new code rather than simple config changes, so it's not something would get to immediately.

While you're at it, why not do a poll if people want draft picks in Ranked? That way instead of enforcing the +1 rule, people would have a mechanism to swap classes.I get it it would be a bit hard, like with having to deal with character select, and probably not viable before you establish some sort of build templates. But it would definitely be a leap forward in terms of these issues.

Draft picks is also something we've talked about. But it's such a big departure from our current system and would require a quite a lot of resources to implement, I'd say it's pretty unlikely.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We looked up the match. 3 people on the all necro team swapped. Looking at the chat logs, this was coordinated.

The scenario in the screenshot will never happen with our current matchmaker settings. We have a hard rule of no more than +1 of a class.

But if you can swap after entering a game, why bother with code in the MM that prevents it? Kind of moot, no?

OR... why not always hard-cap at 2 types of a prof, even if swapping... (give an error if you try to swap to a prof that is already over-represented)???

We currently allow class swapping because the community voted to keep it. There are good things and bad things about this, as the the community has discussed a lot.

We have talked about preventing swapping if it would violate the +1 rule, so we're not opposed to it. But it would require a fair amount of new code rather than simple config changes, so it's not something would get to immediately.

Thanks for the candid reply. I was not part of that poll. HOWEVER, depending on how it was worded and what options were available, it seems flawed. Because there are 2 main reasons why you'd want to change and only one of those is to create a better team dynamic. The MM system already should TRY to make a decent comp, though I understand this gets difficult with the myriad builds available to classes, even within elite specs. So, I get the reason... I play support and I am put on a team with 4 other support, I can switch to damage (and so can a few teammates) and BOOM, we're competitive.

However, there is another reason why being able to swap is desirable. And that so that you can play PvE on one character, and PvP on another -- especially important when you can PvP as a lvl 80 with a level 1 character. So I can get on my main and do story or world events or world completion ... or I can level an alt with some buddies and then when the match pops, I can swap to my desired PvP main. I think this is an awesome feature. Anecdotally, it would be the main reason I personally would vote to allow swapping. I would guess it was/is desirable to a lot of players in the community.

I think the best system would be that when queuing you have to choose what player you are queuing with and you cannot swap. This let's you play on another character while you wait for the match to pop. And then a more robust MM system to try to prevent bad comps (easier said than done). I'd rather struggle with a bad comp every so often than play against 3 or 4-scourge teams.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We looked up the match. 3 people on the all necro team swapped. Looking at the chat logs, this was coordinated.

The scenario in the screenshot will never happen with our current matchmaker settings. We have a hard rule of no more than +1 of a class.

But if you can swap after entering a game, why bother with code in the MM that prevents it? Kind of moot, no?

OR... why not always hard-cap at 2 types of a prof, even if swapping... (give an error if you try to swap to a prof that is already over-represented)???

We currently allow class swapping because the community voted to keep it. There are good things and bad things about this, as the the community has discussed a lot.

We have talked about preventing swapping if it would violate the +1 rule, so we're not opposed to it. But it would require a fair amount of new code rather than simple config changes, so it's not something would get to immediately.

While you're at it, why not do a poll if people want draft picks in Ranked? That way instead of enforcing the +1 rule, people would have a mechanism to swap classes.I get it it would be a bit hard, like with having to deal with character select, and probably not viable before you establish some sort of build templates. But it would definitely be a leap forward in terms of these issues.

Draft picks is also something we've talked about. But it's such a big departure from our current system and would require a quite a lot of resources to implement, I'd say it's pretty unlikely.

Yes, i realize that, but the way i see it you have two choices:

  • The "easy" which is keeping the status quo, or add some sort of lock that disallows people switching to a class if the team has too many, but keep the current overall issue and philosophies in place, which in time will probably lead to another wave of dissatisfaction.
  • Or the "hard" way, which is to create a new philosophy, which i'll grant you, will be a ton of work. But will definitely result in a "lighter" matchmaking algorithm, you only have to concern yourself with MMR matching, the class stacking will sort itself out on draft, you can even add stuff like blind bans, where each team votes to restrict the total number of each specialization possible to bring per team.

It's hard to come up with a proper concept that can easily apply here, but something like a screen with five slots. Each player votes on "his" slot, locking out a specialization (or 2, number may vary) from his slot.At the end the number of locks are tallied, and the 5 - the result is the number of available slots for each class.So for example at start each slot has all specializations.

Red team player 1 Locks out Scourge and FirebrandRed Team player 2 locks out scourge and mirageRed team player 3 locks out mirage and firebrandRed team player 4 locks out scourge and firebrandRead team player 5 locks out Druid and Tempest

Blue team player 1 locks out scourge and firebrandBlue team player 2 locks out mirage and tempestBlue team player 3 locks out holosmith and scourgeBlue team player 4 locks out weaver and ScourgeBluea team player 5 locks out tempest and weaver

Votes are:Scourge 6 - Banned from picksFirebrand 4 - Max 1 pick per teamMirage 3 - Max 2 per teamDruid 1 - Max 4 per teamTempest 3 - Max 2 per teamSo on.On top of this, you'd still keep the +1 restriction on current algorithm.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We looked up the match. 3 people on the all necro team swapped. Looking at the chat logs, this was coordinated.

The scenario in the screenshot will never happen with our current matchmaker settings. We have a hard rule of no more than +1 of a class.

The way this is implemented,it obviously favours those who exploit the system and class swap.Do you want this rule to be in place?If yes,should all players play by the same rules?If yes,either find a way to enforce the rule,either by writing the code or by making class swapping abanable offence,or remove it.When players voted for class swapping to remain,the MM rule set was different,class stacking wasnot taken into account by the MM,so retaining the ability to class swap made sense as a counter to that.The scenario in the picture did happen with the current match maker settings in place,because a rule thatisn't enforced means jack kitten.If anything,it is now mandatory to exploit this in order to get favourable class set ups.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We looked up the match. 3 people on the all necro team swapped. Looking at the chat logs, this was coordinated.

The scenario in the screenshot will never happen with our current matchmaker settings. We have a hard rule of no more than +1 of a class.

But if you can swap after entering a game, why bother with code in the MM that prevents it? Kind of moot, no?

OR... why not always hard-cap at 2 types of a prof, even if swapping... (give an error if you try to swap to a prof that is already over-represented)???

We currently allow class swapping because the community voted to keep it. There are good things and bad things about this, as the the community has discussed a lot.

We have talked about preventing swapping if it would violate the +1 rule, so we're not opposed to it. But it would require a fair amount of new code rather than simple config changes, so it's not something would get to immediately.

While you're at it, why not do a poll if people want draft picks in Ranked? That way instead of enforcing the +1 rule, people would have a mechanism to swap classes.I get it it would be a bit hard, like with having to deal with character select, and probably not viable before you establish some sort of build templates. But it would definitely be a leap forward in terms of these issues.

Draft picks is also something we've talked about. But it's such a big departure from our current system and would require a quite a lot of resources to implement, I'd say it's pretty unlikely.

What about removing the double loading screen when swapping characters in a match during the pre-match grace-period so that players can just load their characters directly into the match without having to load the Heart of the Mists first? I'm just thinking that even if you can't make a better system, then maybe you can at least make the current system more efficient and streamlined.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We looked up the match. 3 people on the all necro team swapped. Looking at the chat logs, this was coordinated.

The scenario in the screenshot will never happen with our current matchmaker settings. We have a hard rule of no more than +1 of a class.

reminds of someone who don't like to accept reality...

btw the bigger problem is not class stacking

its about rolls (builds or who buy the newest OP expact pay to win comes to mind but I'm sure I'm wrong)

I (when I install the game again some time) play burn-guard so I rarely get the favor of a bunker FB on my side.So my win chances is minimized also for my team.

instead of class u should look for builds in ur algorithm and yes so long u allow class swapping your full system is a placebo

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065

What is the likelihood of getting a redo of the class locking poll, and making the options clear and concise unlike the previous one?

Since you already have a soft anti class stacking variable in the MM algorithm, which is clearly getting abused by queuing as an undesirable class and then class swap after match starts to stack specific classes. So why even have the variable in the algorithm if it’s so easily abused/bypassed?

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There needs to be some special ruling to swaps. I obviously don't want it gone because I alternate between ele and thief but it's clear some people are abusing the system to: 1. avoid getting a certain class in their team (by queueing as that class and swapping every single time once inside the match) and 2. using it to bring more than the limit of 2 classes per game.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:We looked up the match. 3 people on the all necro team swapped. Looking at the chat logs, this was coordinated.

The scenario in the screenshot will never happen with our current matchmaker settings. We have a hard rule of no more than +1 of a class.

But if you can swap after entering a game, why bother with code in the MM that prevents it? Kind of moot, no?

OR... why not always hard-cap at 2 types of a prof, even if swapping... (give an error if you try to swap to a prof that is already over-represented)???

We currently allow class swapping because the community voted to keep it. There are good things and bad things about this, as the the community has discussed a lot.

We have talked about preventing swapping if it would violate the +1 rule, so we're not opposed to it. But it would require a fair amount of new code rather than simple config changes, so it's not something would get to immediately.

While you're at it, why not do a poll if people want draft picks in Ranked? That way instead of enforcing the +1 rule, people would have a mechanism to swap classes.I get it it would be a bit hard, like with having to deal with character select, and probably not viable before you establish some sort of build templates. But it would definitely be a leap forward in terms of these issues.

Draft picks is also something we've talked about. But it's such a big departure from our current system and would require a quite a lot of resources to implement, I'd say it's pretty unlikely.

bro most of us WOULD love to see something like that added to the game for sure.

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