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Balance Patch coming Feb 6th


X T D.6458

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@Zero.3871 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Changes would come to the elite scourge line only. Roamers are not who you balance WvW around. Thiefs and Mesmers would exist if that were the case. You balance around groups. 5-50 etc, which, honestly is nigh impossible to do class by class.

One shot builds have been around since launch. Will still be after any nerf.

Whether scourge would be viable or not after the changes you mentioned was not part of my post. Don't lump me with others.

I said, the last change was a tweak. And that I would like to see SOME of the corrupt done by scourge ( not reaper nor core so not the wells or other core/reaper skills) swapped to strips. Again, not all of scourges corrupts, as boon hate is good.

Please don't pull other people's arguments into this one and attribute it to me.

you say booncorrupt is bad thing. you maybe can Change unending corruption and scourge elite and punishment skills to boonrip instead corrupt. but most People complain about path of corruption where the most scourge booncorrupt Comes from. and that is a CORE trait. so you have to Change core...

No.. To do what THEY want you would have to. I wouldn't even change Both of unending corruption and the elite or punishment skills, but some aspect of tweaking and reducing the amount of corruption is needed. As continued tweaks to condi is needed. Not a nerf hammer.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Changes would come to the elite scourge line only. Roamers are not who you balance WvW around. Thiefs and Mesmers would exist if that were the case. You balance around groups. 5-50 etc, which, honestly is nigh impossible to do class by class.

One shot builds have been around since launch. Will still be after any nerf.

Whether scourge would be viable or not after the changes you mentioned was not part of my post. Don't lump me with others.

I said, the last change was a tweak. And that I would like to see SOME of the corrupt done by scourge ( not reaper nor core so not the wells or other core/reaper skills) swapped to strips. Again, not all of scourges corrupts, as boon hate is good.

Please don't pull other people's arguments into this one and attribute it to me.

you say booncorrupt is bad thing. you maybe can Change unending corruption and scourge elite and punishment skills to boonrip instead corrupt. but most People complain about path of corruption where the most scourge booncorrupt Comes from. and that is a CORE trait. so you have to Change core...

No.. To do what THEY want you would have to. I wouldn't even change Both of unending corruption and the elite or punishment skills, but some aspect of tweaking and reducing the amount of corruption is needed. As continued tweaks to condi is needed. Not a nerf hammer.

okay, i see your Point, but in my opinion wvw shouldnt just get balanced around zergs. roaming is still a very important part of the game and if you nerf zerg classes because of strong mechanics. you should do that in raoming too.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Changes would come to the elite scourge line only. Roamers are not who you balance WvW around. Thiefs and Mesmers would exist if that were the case. You balance around groups. 5-50 etc, which, honestly is nigh impossible to do class by class.

One shot builds have been around since launch. Will still be after any nerf.

Whether scourge would be viable or not after the changes you mentioned was not part of my post. Don't lump me with others.

I said, the last change was a tweak. And that I would like to see SOME of the corrupt done by scourge ( not reaper nor core so not the wells or other core/reaper skills) swapped to strips. Again, not all of scourges corrupts, as boon hate is good.

Please don't pull other people's arguments into this one and attribute it to me.

you say booncorrupt is bad thing. you maybe can Change unending corruption and scourge elite and punishment skills to boonrip instead corrupt. but most People complain about path of corruption where the most scourge booncorrupt Comes from. and that is a CORE trait. so you have to Change core...

No.. To do what THEY want you would have to. I wouldn't even change Both of unending corruption and the elite or punishment skills, but some aspect of tweaking and reducing the amount of corruption is needed. As continued tweaks to condi is needed. Not a nerf hammer.It still need the nerf hammer.

It's really quite simple. Skills that corrupt boons rip them instead, +1 extra (so if a skill corrupted 1 boon before, it now rip 2 boons). Skills that are considered "weak" with this (such as high cd skills) would just get fixed condition added. So instead of a skill corrupting say... 3 boons... it rip 4 boons and cause 5 stacks of bleed for 5s and weakness for 5s. Something like that.

The problem with boon corrupt is that we still cant help getting boons. You cant stop it. Just walking 1 step forward in most specs will make you have 3 boons. If one want to maintain corrupt I'd say the entire boon system need to remade from scratch on all classes and every single skill tree, all sigils, all runes, the works. And that's gonna be a complete arse job for Anet. It's much, much simpler to do corrupt->rip.

But it really doesnt matter, I am fairly sure Anet is just gonna plain nerf the necro. Just a tiny bit of course. Cant weaken PoF specs too much.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:Changes would come to the elite scourge line only. Roamers are not who you balance WvW around. Thiefs and Mesmers would exist if that were the case. You balance around groups. 5-50 etc, which, honestly is nigh impossible to do class by class.

One shot builds have been around since launch. Will still be after any nerf.

Whether scourge would be viable or not after the changes you mentioned was not part of my post. Don't lump me with others.

I said, the last change was a tweak. And that I would like to see SOME of the corrupt done by scourge ( not reaper nor core so not the wells or other core/reaper skills) swapped to strips. Again, not all of scourges corrupts, as boon hate is good.

Please don't pull other people's arguments into this one and attribute it to me.

you say booncorrupt is bad thing. you maybe can Change unending corruption and scourge elite and punishment skills to boonrip instead corrupt. but most People complain about path of corruption where the most scourge booncorrupt Comes from. and that is a CORE trait. so you have to Change core...

No.. To do what THEY want you would have to. I wouldn't even change Both of unending corruption and the elite or punishment skills, but some aspect of tweaking and reducing the amount of corruption is needed. As continued tweaks to condi is needed. Not a nerf hammer.It still need the nerf hammer.

It's really quite simple. Skills that corrupt boons rip them instead, +1 extra (so if a skill corrupted 1 boon before, it now rip 2 boons). Skills that are considered "weak" with this (such as high cd skills) would just get fixed condition added. So instead of a skill corrupting say... 3 boons... it rip 4 boons and cause 5 stacks of bleed for 5s and weakness for 5s. Something like that.

The problem with boon corrupt is that
we still cant help getting boons
. You cant stop it. Just walking 1 step forward in most specs will make you have 3 boons. If one want to maintain corrupt I'd say the entire boon system need to remade from scratch on all classes and every single skill tree, all sigils, all runes, the works. And that's gonna be a complete kitten job for Anet. It's much, much simpler to do corrupt->rip.

But it really doesnt matter, I am fairly sure Anet is just gonna plain nerf the necro. Just a tiny bit of course. Cant weaken PoF specs too much.

But corrupt has been there from core. That shouldn't change.

Scourge put corruption on steroids. That's why I would like to see a tweak to it.. Either tweak the traits, or make one of the F-skills a strip instead of a corrupt. Trial that for a while like the condibtweak they did, see how it impacts things.

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@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@shagwell.1349 said:Because some people want to play Necro outside of zergs. And Scourge is pretty terrible when you are not zerging.

if you die as scourge while not zerging you must be terrible. Scourge can 1v3 easily just like Spellbreaker. Only difference is that scourge uses his 343724723 condies while spellbreaker uses raw power.

What ? Ok if you dont count exp person vs pve daily noob.... but roamer vs roamer... (or atleast 2 experienced person)Chars with each i kill scourge with no problem :

Soulbeast ... that range and cc is too hard to handle. Only chance ... beat bad soulbeast by sand swell bomb. (Druid same problem)Mirage/Chrono power shatter.... u can win only against really bad mesm 1v1 .. big burst, stealth, mobility.Spellbreaker ... looks like u can beat him.. but no, lot of cc, block, big dps and regen... u cant outcorrupt him :dizzy:Holo... here it can be 50/50 agaisnt somebody not so experienced how to move against scourge, but that cc with big burst..Dh : longbow burst and heal... F1 to trap and knocback is also nice combo :dizzy:Thief: depends on build ... but he can dance around you for a while... just let you use your skill ... then hit.. soon or later u fall.

With these i dont have problems kill scourge, and each day i met lot of them, and when i see one alone ... its just +1 easy kill.. Also these are most common roamer builds.Scourge 1v3 only against bad players... piano spam them till death.

The only bad matchup for scourge among all those is soulbeast and only if it catches scourge out in the open without LoS options. The rest are either heavily in scourges favor (Spellbreaker, Holo) or are pretty even. And that is from a pvp perspective, scourge is much more disgusting in wvw thanks to access to dire/trailblazer gear and the ability to kill ambients for free life-force before every engagement. Really the only thing that makes scourge not so great at roaming is that it can't run away from an enemy zerg.

Roaming for scourge? They are candy for any class with 1200 range. Hammer revs, pistol thiefs, and ranger class... scourge eats Melee up yes, but bringing a ranged weapon to roam..., they don't stand a chance.

I mean.. Shades have 900 range with 300 Radius but... Nevermind >.>

It just takes a dodge and a second of walking to catch up and condi bomb you :lol:

You need to trait for them to have 300 radius. Base radius is only 180.

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@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@shagwell.1349 said:Because some people want to play Necro outside of zergs. And Scourge is pretty terrible when you are not zerging.

if you die as scourge while not zerging you must be terrible. Scourge can 1v3 easily just like Spellbreaker. Only difference is that scourge uses his 343724723 condies while spellbreaker uses raw power.

What ? Ok if you dont count exp person vs pve daily noob.... but roamer vs roamer... (or atleast 2 experienced person)Chars with each i kill scourge with no problem :

Soulbeast ... that range and cc is too hard to handle. Only chance ... beat bad soulbeast by sand swell bomb. (Druid same problem)Mirage/Chrono power shatter.... u can win only against really bad mesm 1v1 .. big burst, stealth, mobility.Spellbreaker ... looks like u can beat him.. but no, lot of cc, block, big dps and regen... u cant outcorrupt him :dizzy:Holo... here it can be 50/50 agaisnt somebody not so experienced how to move against scourge, but that cc with big burst..Dh : longbow burst and heal... F1 to trap and knocback is also nice combo :dizzy:Thief: depends on build ... but he can dance around you for a while... just let you use your skill ... then hit.. soon or later u fall.

With these i dont have problems kill scourge, and each day i met lot of them, and when i see one alone ... its just +1 easy kill.. Also these are most common roamer builds.Scourge 1v3 only against bad players... piano spam them till death.

The only bad matchup for scourge among all those is soulbeast and only if it catches scourge out in the open without LoS options. The rest are either heavily in scourges favor (Spellbreaker, Holo) or are pretty even. And that is from a pvp perspective, scourge is much more disgusting in wvw thanks to access to dire/trailblazer gear and the ability to kill ambients for free life-force before every engagement. Really the only thing that makes scourge not so great at roaming is that it can't run away from an enemy zerg.

Stealthing off of and gaining lifeforce from ambients should be worse than rezzing off Moas. Where's the outrage?

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@HazyDaisy.4107 said:

@shagwell.1349 said:Because some people want to play Necro outside of zergs. And Scourge is pretty terrible when you are not zerging.

if you die as scourge while not zerging you must be terrible. Scourge can 1v3 easily just like Spellbreaker. Only difference is that scourge uses his 343724723 condies while spellbreaker uses raw power.

What ? Ok if you dont count exp person vs pve daily noob.... but roamer vs roamer... (or atleast 2 experienced person)Chars with each i kill scourge with no problem :

Soulbeast ... that range and cc is too hard to handle. Only chance ... beat bad soulbeast by sand swell bomb. (Druid same problem)Mirage/Chrono power shatter.... u can win only against really bad mesm 1v1 .. big burst, stealth, mobility.Spellbreaker ... looks like u can beat him.. but no, lot of cc, block, big dps and regen... u cant outcorrupt him :dizzy:Holo... here it can be 50/50 agaisnt somebody not so experienced how to move against scourge, but that cc with big burst..Dh : longbow burst and heal... F1 to trap and knocback is also nice combo :dizzy:Thief: depends on build ... but he can dance around you for a while... just let you use your skill ... then hit.. soon or later u fall.

With these i dont have problems kill scourge, and each day i met lot of them, and when i see one alone ... its just +1 easy kill.. Also these are most common roamer builds.Scourge 1v3 only against bad players... piano spam them till death.

The only bad matchup for scourge among all those is soulbeast and only if it catches scourge out in the open without LoS options. The rest are either heavily in scourges favor (Spellbreaker, Holo) or are pretty even. And that is from a pvp perspective, scourge is much more disgusting in wvw thanks to access to dire/trailblazer gear and the ability to kill ambients for free life-force before every engagement. Really the only thing that makes scourge not so great at roaming is that it can't run away from an enemy zerg.

Stealthing off of and gaining lifeforce from ambients should be worse than rezzing off Moas. Where's the outrage?

/outrage

The ambients are actually useful for necros. Sometimes I need them to fuel lifeforce when I am just running around so I have some in reserve when needed. You don't want to be caught off guard with no life force because its important for both offense and defense. Also I dont think you can rally off of creatures anymore, only veteran or higher guards.

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@Kovu.7560 said:I mean, I don't especially enjoy going into a battle with 0 life force, regardless of the spec I'm running.People don't start the fight by dying.

~ Kovu

Just saying there's no difference between rezzing from down off an regular creature and prolonging a fight and possibly changing the intended outcome by feeding off the life of or stealing from regular creatures, yet the former was deemed unfair in a fight scenario.

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@HazyDaisy.4107 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:I mean, I don't especially enjoy going into a battle with 0 life force, regardless of the spec I'm running.People don't start the fight by dying.

~ Kovu

Just saying there's no difference between rezzing from down off an regular creature and prolonging a fight and possibly changing the intended outcome by feeding off the life of or stealing from regular creatures, yet the former was deemed unfair in a fight scenario.

Um, there is a huge difference. Try playing a necro with no life force, especially Scourge, and tell me its the same.

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@X T D.6458 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:I mean, I don't especially enjoy going into a battle with 0 life force, regardless of the spec I'm running.People don't start the fight by dying.

~ Kovu

Just saying there's no difference between rezzing from down off an regular creature and prolonging a fight and possibly changing the intended outcome by feeding off the life of or stealing from regular creatures, yet the former was deemed unfair in a fight scenario.

Um, there is a huge difference. Try playing a necro with no life force, especially Scourge, and tell me its the same.

Or a thief starting with no endurance or initiative...

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:I mean, I don't especially enjoy going into a battle with 0 life force, regardless of the spec I'm running.People don't start the fight by dying.

~ Kovu

Just saying there's no difference between rezzing from down off an regular creature and prolonging a fight and possibly changing the intended outcome by feeding off the life of or stealing from regular creatures, yet the former was deemed unfair in a fight scenario.

Um, there is a huge difference. Try playing a necro with no life force, especially Scourge, and tell me its the same.

Or a thief starting with no endurance or initiative...

Or a warrior with no Adre-- oh. Snap!

~ Kovu

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:I mean, I don't especially enjoy going into a battle with 0 life force, regardless of the spec I'm running.People don't start the fight by dying.

~ Kovu

Just saying there's no difference between rezzing from down off an regular creature and prolonging a fight and possibly changing the intended outcome by feeding off the life of or stealing from regular creatures, yet the former was deemed unfair in a fight scenario.

Um, there is a huge difference. Try playing a necro with no life force, especially Scourge, and tell me its the same.

Or a thief starting with no endurance or initiative...

Not the same thing, endurance, initiative regenerate on their own. Life force does not, it is only fueled by nearby deaths and from some skills. Going into a fight with no life force is a huge disadvantage, especially for a class with little to no defensive capabilities.

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@Kovu.7560 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:I mean, I don't especially enjoy going into a battle with 0 life force, regardless of the spec I'm running.People don't start the fight by dying.

~ Kovu

Just saying there's no difference between rezzing from down off an regular creature and prolonging a fight and possibly changing the intended outcome by feeding off the life of or stealing from regular creatures, yet the former was deemed unfair in a fight scenario.

Um, there is a huge difference. Try playing a necro with no life force, especially Scourge, and tell me its the same.

Or a thief starting with no endurance or initiative...

Or a warrior with no Adre-- oh. Snap!

~ Kovu

Also not the same thing, adrenaline is gained passively simply by being in combat. Life force is a lot harder to maintain.

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I know, I'm just poking fun.I always felt that classes and specializations with energy bars should have that bar slowly regenerate or degenerate to half once combat is broken. (With the exception of, you know, Heat). Especially those with abilities locked behind that energy-gate.

~ Kovu

edit-- Oh, and undo that life force degeneration nerf on Reaper. Good lord.

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LF isn't that hard to build up, not to mention most condi necros lock you down miles away from them before you even have a chance to be within range to give them a reason to use their alternate life line, in most cases, they are not at a disadvantage!And thieves? have stealth, so they're no better than the mesmers being complained about in this thread. And warriors....they're heavy for crying out loud, their armor is their crutch.

For the purpose of my argument above though, currently necros and thIeves have the ability to benefit just in case off the surrounding wildlife, previously this was the case for anyone if there happened to be a moa/drake/otherwise non veteran creature around, but that was deemed unfair in fights. Now, obviously they can't just change class mechanics, but if your class is getting a boost from the local wildlife that your opponent isn't getting, then yes, it is the same thing as rezzing off said wildlife.

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@X T D.6458 said:

@shagwell.1349 said:Because some people want to play Necro outside of zergs. And Scourge is pretty terrible when you are not zerging.

if you die as scourge while not zerging you must be terrible. Scourge can 1v3 easily just like Spellbreaker. Only difference is that scourge uses his 343724723 condies while spellbreaker uses raw power.

What ? Ok if you dont count exp person vs pve daily noob.... but roamer vs roamer... (or atleast 2 experienced person)Chars with each i kill scourge with no problem :

Soulbeast ... that range and cc is too hard to handle. Only chance ... beat bad soulbeast by sand swell bomb. (Druid same problem)Mirage/Chrono power shatter.... u can win only against really bad mesm 1v1 .. big burst, stealth, mobility.Spellbreaker ... looks like u can beat him.. but no, lot of cc, block, big dps and regen... u cant outcorrupt him :dizzy:Holo... here it can be 50/50 agaisnt somebody not so experienced how to move against scourge, but that cc with big burst..Dh : longbow burst and heal... F1 to trap and knocback is also nice combo :dizzy:Thief: depends on build ... but he can dance around you for a while... just let you use your skill ... then hit.. soon or later u fall.

With these i dont have problems kill scourge, and each day i met lot of them, and when i see one alone ... its just +1 easy kill.. Also these are most common roamer builds.Scourge 1v3 only against bad players... piano spam them till death.

The only bad matchup for scourge among all those is soulbeast and only if it catches scourge out in the open without LoS options. The rest are either heavily in scourges favor (Spellbreaker, Holo) or are pretty even. And that is from a pvp perspective, scourge is much more disgusting in wvw thanks to access to dire/trailblazer gear and the ability to kill ambients for free life-force before every engagement. Really the only thing that makes scourge not so great at roaming is that it can't run away from an enemy zerg.

Roaming for scourge? They are candy for any class with 1200 range. Hammer revs, pistol thiefs, and ranger class... scourge eats Melee up yes, but bringing a ranged weapon to roam..., they don't stand a chance.

I mean.. Shades have 900 range with 300 Radius but... Nevermind >.>

It just takes a dodge and a second of walking to catch up and condi bomb you :lol:

You need to trait for them to have 300 radius. Base radius is only 180.

I’ve never seen anybody in WvW without Sand Savant(Not sure about the name) at all.But yeah - I should’ve mentioned it.

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@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@shagwell.1349 said:Because some people want to play Necro outside of zergs. And Scourge is pretty terrible when you are not zerging.

if you die as scourge while not zerging you must be terrible. Scourge can 1v3 easily just like Spellbreaker. Only difference is that scourge uses his 343724723 condies while spellbreaker uses raw power.

What ? Ok if you dont count exp person vs pve daily noob.... but roamer vs roamer... (or atleast 2 experienced person)Chars with each i kill scourge with no problem :

Soulbeast ... that range and cc is too hard to handle. Only chance ... beat bad soulbeast by sand swell bomb. (Druid same problem)Mirage/Chrono power shatter.... u can win only against really bad mesm 1v1 .. big burst, stealth, mobility.Spellbreaker ... looks like u can beat him.. but no, lot of cc, block, big dps and regen... u cant outcorrupt him :dizzy:Holo... here it can be 50/50 agaisnt somebody not so experienced how to move against scourge, but that cc with big burst..Dh : longbow burst and heal... F1 to trap and knocback is also nice combo :dizzy:Thief: depends on build ... but he can dance around you for a while... just let you use your skill ... then hit.. soon or later u fall.

With these i dont have problems kill scourge, and each day i met lot of them, and when i see one alone ... its just +1 easy kill.. Also these are most common roamer builds.Scourge 1v3 only against bad players... piano spam them till death.

The only bad matchup for scourge among all those is soulbeast and only if it catches scourge out in the open without LoS options. The rest are either heavily in scourges favor (Spellbreaker, Holo) or are pretty even. And that is from a pvp perspective, scourge is much more disgusting in wvw thanks to access to dire/trailblazer gear and the ability to kill ambients for free life-force before every engagement. Really the only thing that makes scourge not so great at roaming is that it can't run away from an enemy zerg.

Roaming for scourge? They are candy for any class with 1200 range. Hammer revs, pistol thiefs, and ranger class... scourge eats Melee up yes, but bringing a ranged weapon to roam..., they don't stand a chance.

I mean.. Shades have 900 range with 300 Radius but... Nevermind >.>

It just takes a dodge and a second of walking to catch up and condi bomb you :lol:

You need to trait for them to have 300 radius. Base radius is only 180.

I’ve never seen anybody in WvW without Sand Savant(Not sure about the name) at all.But yeah - I should’ve mentioned it.The pitfalls of a trait that defines the entire class (just like dc was for condi reaper).

Would it have been nice if the radius was 220 baseline and the traits just changed the flavor a little to personalize a spec?

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@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@shagwell.1349 said:Because some people want to play Necro outside of zergs. And Scourge is pretty terrible when you are not zerging.

if you die as scourge while not zerging you must be terrible. Scourge can 1v3 easily just like Spellbreaker. Only difference is that scourge uses his 343724723 condies while spellbreaker uses raw power.

What ? Ok if you dont count exp person vs pve daily noob.... but roamer vs roamer... (or atleast 2 experienced person)Chars with each i kill scourge with no problem :

Soulbeast ... that range and cc is too hard to handle. Only chance ... beat bad soulbeast by sand swell bomb. (Druid same problem)Mirage/Chrono power shatter.... u can win only against really bad mesm 1v1 .. big burst, stealth, mobility.Spellbreaker ... looks like u can beat him.. but no, lot of cc, block, big dps and regen... u cant outcorrupt him :dizzy:Holo... here it can be 50/50 agaisnt somebody not so experienced how to move against scourge, but that cc with big burst..Dh : longbow burst and heal... F1 to trap and knocback is also nice combo :dizzy:Thief: depends on build ... but he can dance around you for a while... just let you use your skill ... then hit.. soon or later u fall.

With these i dont have problems kill scourge, and each day i met lot of them, and when i see one alone ... its just +1 easy kill.. Also these are most common roamer builds.Scourge 1v3 only against bad players... piano spam them till death.

The only bad matchup for scourge among all those is soulbeast and only if it catches scourge out in the open without LoS options. The rest are either heavily in scourges favor (Spellbreaker, Holo) or are pretty even. And that is from a pvp perspective, scourge is much more disgusting in wvw thanks to access to dire/trailblazer gear and the ability to kill ambients for free life-force before every engagement. Really the only thing that makes scourge not so great at roaming is that it can't run away from an enemy zerg.

Roaming for scourge? They are candy for any class with 1200 range. Hammer revs, pistol thiefs, and ranger class... scourge eats Melee up yes, but bringing a ranged weapon to roam..., they don't stand a chance.

I mean.. Shades have 900 range with 300 Radius but... Nevermind >.>

It just takes a dodge and a second of walking to catch up and condi bomb you :lol:

Mace shield guardian with shouts, wonder how imba is to fight a scourge with something that get's 200% fullycountered by scourge xD

Guess Anet wans tthis players to fill forced to buy PoF lameness..

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@X T D.6458 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:I mean, I don't especially enjoy going into a battle with 0 life force, regardless of the spec I'm running.People don't start the fight by dying.

~ Kovu

Just saying there's no difference between rezzing from down off an regular creature and prolonging a fight and possibly changing the intended outcome by feeding off the life of or stealing from regular creatures, yet the former was deemed unfair in a fight scenario.

Um, there is a huge difference. Try playing a necro with no life force, especially Scourge, and tell me its the same.

Or a thief starting with no endurance or initiative...

Not the same thing, endurance, initiative regenerate on their own. Life force does not, it is only fueled by nearby deaths and from some skills. Going into a fight with no life force is a huge disadvantage, especially for a class with little to no defensive capabilities.

Was somewhat toungue-in-cheek. :sunglasses:

Thief couldn't start a fight that way... would only have slot skills to use. Couldn't use any weapon skills.

Wasn't arguing against your point actually. Very much agree with you...

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@shagwell.1349 said:Because some people want to play Necro outside of zergs. And Scourge is pretty terrible when you are not zerging.

if you die as scourge while not zerging you must be terrible. Scourge can 1v3 easily just like Spellbreaker. Only difference is that scourge uses his 343724723 condies while spellbreaker uses raw power.

What ? Ok if you dont count exp person vs pve daily noob.... but roamer vs roamer... (or atleast 2 experienced person)Chars with each i kill scourge with no problem :

Soulbeast ... that range and cc is too hard to handle. Only chance ... beat bad soulbeast by sand swell bomb. (Druid same problem)Mirage/Chrono power shatter.... u can win only against really bad mesm 1v1 .. big burst, stealth, mobility.Spellbreaker ... looks like u can beat him.. but no, lot of cc, block, big dps and regen... u cant outcorrupt him :dizzy:Holo... here it can be 50/50 agaisnt somebody not so experienced how to move against scourge, but that cc with big burst..Dh : longbow burst and heal... F1 to trap and knocback is also nice combo :dizzy:Thief: depends on build ... but he can dance around you for a while... just let you use your skill ... then hit.. soon or later u fall.

With these i dont have problems kill scourge, and each day i met lot of them, and when i see one alone ... its just +1 easy kill.. Also these are most common roamer builds.Scourge 1v3 only against bad players... piano spam them till death.

The only bad matchup for scourge among all those is soulbeast and only if it catches scourge out in the open without LoS options. The rest are either heavily in scourges favor (Spellbreaker, Holo) or are pretty even. And that is from a pvp perspective, scourge is much more disgusting in wvw thanks to access to dire/trailblazer gear and the ability to kill ambients for free life-force before every engagement. Really the only thing that makes scourge not so great at roaming is that it can't run away from an enemy zerg.

Roaming for scourge? They are candy for any class with 1200 range. Hammer revs, pistol thiefs, and ranger class... scourge eats Melee up yes, but bringing a ranged weapon to roam..., they don't stand a chance.

Pistol thief has 900 range.

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@babazhook.6805 said:

@shagwell.1349 said:Because some people want to play Necro outside of zergs. And Scourge is pretty terrible when you are not zerging.

if you die as scourge while not zerging you must be terrible. Scourge can 1v3 easily just like Spellbreaker. Only difference is that scourge uses his 343724723 condies while spellbreaker uses raw power.

What ? Ok if you dont count exp person vs pve daily noob.... but roamer vs roamer... (or atleast 2 experienced person)Chars with each i kill scourge with no problem :

Soulbeast ... that range and cc is too hard to handle. Only chance ... beat bad soulbeast by sand swell bomb. (Druid same problem)Mirage/Chrono power shatter.... u can win only against really bad mesm 1v1 .. big burst, stealth, mobility.Spellbreaker ... looks like u can beat him.. but no, lot of cc, block, big dps and regen... u cant outcorrupt him :dizzy:Holo... here it can be 50/50 agaisnt somebody not so experienced how to move against scourge, but that cc with big burst..Dh : longbow burst and heal... F1 to trap and knocback is also nice combo :dizzy:Thief: depends on build ... but he can dance around you for a while... just let you use your skill ... then hit.. soon or later u fall.

With these i dont have problems kill scourge, and each day i met lot of them, and when i see one alone ... its just +1 easy kill.. Also these are most common roamer builds.Scourge 1v3 only against bad players... piano spam them till death.

The only bad matchup for scourge among all those is soulbeast and only if it catches scourge out in the open without LoS options. The rest are either heavily in scourges favor (Spellbreaker, Holo) or are pretty even. And that is from a pvp perspective, scourge is much more disgusting in wvw thanks to access to dire/trailblazer gear and the ability to kill ambients for free life-force before every engagement. Really the only thing that makes scourge not so great at roaming is that it can't run away from an enemy zerg.

Roaming for scourge? They are candy for any class with 1200 range. Hammer revs, pistol thiefs, and ranger class... scourge eats Melee up yes, but bringing a ranged weapon to roam..., they don't stand a chance.

Pistol thief has 900 range.

Should have noted that.

the scourges shades are static. Agree that the scourge can theoretically out range them, but I am not that good, and with pistols, and have yet to lose roaming when facing a scourge..

Roaming scourges are just not very threatening.

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