King xiuras.3615 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I recently started playing pvp again because of the new league. I'm playing thief and druid. I am really amazed about how easy holosmith can do so much damage, like when i am playing thief. When the engi gets one knock down, its over for sure cuz it has so much damage like what the hell. Hes literally one shotting...... Idk if its me but the damage seems to be too much to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 It seems like it has an enormous amount of damage from nowhere because of the dodge roll damage. Against a thief, the dodge roll can crit upwards of 12k (assuming all mines hit and everything crits) and there's not much you can do to avoid it besides just never going melee. The knockdowns you don't like are due to overcharged shot and holographic shockwave (neither of which crit upwards of 2.5k btw) and prime light beam (which has an insanely large telegraph so it's fine if it hits for a bit more). The cc damage or even the damage from photon forge isn't all that ridiculous, what's absurd (this is coming from someone who mains engi) is the dodge roll damage ability of holo. It carries bad players because they can dodge spam burst whenever they screw up their cc or their damage combos and good players seemingly can't be stopped because they know how to not only land their damage combos but also their dodge roll damage..Summary: Dodge roll damage is killing you, other stuff I'm assuming you know how to dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atmaweapon.7345 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 When you're playing a Thief, you're going to die in one coordinated burst because the other half of the time you should be functionally invulnerable from evade spam. The only time a Holo should ever actually land a CC on you is a point-blank Overcharge Shot because Holographic Shockwave and Prime Light beam have some of the most obvious tells in the entire game, and even then, Thieves have a trait that restores 100 endurance and immediately breaks stuns when they get CC'd so you are flat out misplaying if you're spending time in CC by a single Holo.There are also a couple tells that are important when facing a Holo. When they turn bright Red, they're at high heat so they'll be doing higher damage, but need to cool off soon. Also, immediately after their spin move, they gain 10 stacks of Might which is a pretty major boost to damage. Generally you're going to want to be on the defensive at these times.Mines can be dodge rolled or evaded through with the right attack. If you're a Daredevil, you're probably going to be evade spamming over mines anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flauvious.6195 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Because not enough people play engi for everyone to realize how broken it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euthymias.7984 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Its meant to be a really bursty spec, and for the most part, it accomplishes that well.However, it gets a lot of "passive" damage from Minesweeper, which could use some slight tweaks (lower numbers, ICD, ect).Holosmith's pretty much fine otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzet.3614 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 @Flauvious.6195 said:Because not enough people play engi for everyone to realize how broken it is. Its actually the opposite so few players play engi that they dont even know whats getting them or how to fight the new specFew easy counters to holo damageBlind,weakness,Protection,CcHolo is basically a stealthless thief of he locks you you ded , if you lock him he evaporates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Holosmith is not a spec to be fought at melee range...as funny and ridiculous as it may sound , PoF introduced what I'd define as "anti-melee train", almost all new elite are specialized in melee neutralisation , your best bet on thief is to play p/p ( no kidding ) or deadeye rifle...if you have ultra instinct you can play s/d...d/p is a nono. As for ranger is even easier : longbow/staff with smokescale and bristleback , beastmastery a must and if you like soulbeast then gazelle/smokescale with longbow a must ...always keep your distance and at all time be mindful of the shockwave CC leap/launch at range..it's delayed effect and can seemingly hit if you misdodge.-80% of holosmiths will start stealth and try to rifle CC you, count to 2 and dodge opposite direction from where they come-they will try to follow with shockwave heatmode 5 to set up their elite-they then start to dodge roll under your feet to trigger minesweep-do never become overconfident ..with that healing turret+blast and perma boons , they can reset easily-once you forced an engi to use both elixir s...you'll have a guaranteed victory 9/10 as many can't really play engi..they just rely on youtube combo and double elixir s, with those elixirs gone...80% of current engi will start running like headless chickens...( same idea with warriors, they too go in panic mode once they lose their safety net , the double endure pain ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzet.3614 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Holosmith damage aint all that big in the big scope of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 In WvW the damage is crazy, but in sPvP only unaware people get bursted down by it, the one who doesn't know of the use of stunbreaks.It is not like scourge, if you get caught offguard by a scourge you are done, cripple chill weakness bye bye and he does that nonstop.Holosmith is full of windows to land your counter action on him, as an holo myself even if playing spellbreaker it is so good block everything with a simple shield5 skill and dodge the elite, then i counter attack popping his 2 invulns and the holo have to run away because he is squishy like a thief.All the holo skills have a delay and an obvious animation before cast, so you can't use the spam tecnique and expect to win.In low leagues might seems op because people do not know when to dodge and how to use stunbreaks and disengage, but that is a l2p issue not a problem with holo.Scourge and mirage are way more cancerous then holo, which seems the only one balanced new spec, together with spellbreaker now thanks to the nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 @"Rezzet.3614" said:Holosmith damage aint all that big in the big scope of things Funfact: Thief doesn't have 2 stacks of stability on a 6s cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Because the only tangible thing that this shallow game offers players is big damage numbers. They've just been getting randomly bigger as time has gone on. An arbitrary engineer spec just got bigger numbers than a lot of other classes for no particular reason.Sword/Sword Rev is another, more recent result of this ongoing meme design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeteCommander.4937 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 That's the advantage of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Holo can build for good damage and stuns but the thing is, there are still some flaws that come with the class. You wont have insane easy healing like a spellbreaker (unless its WvW and you go boon duration sustain), blocks are limited unlike a spellbreaker, no perma immunity to cc like a spellbreaker and in contrast to a spellbreaker he cant do damage while invoulnerable.It really is like a balanced version of the spellbreaker compared to the spellbreaker, if you get what I mean by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 @Dawdler.8521 said:no perma immunity to cc like a spellbreakerHolo and spellbreaker have roughly the same CC immunity.SBs only seem like they have more because one of them is a free 40s automatic stunbreak which some SBs take. If you aren't aware of how it works it can seem like they have perma stab. In reality they don't, and you can actually cheese them by using a low cost simple CC to intentionally pop their passive then screw them over later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiyan.1704 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 @Rezzet.3614 said:@Flauvious.6195 said:Because not enough people play engi for everyone to realize how broken it is. Its actually the opposite so few players play engi that they dont even know whats getting them or how to fight the new specFew easy counters to holo damageBlind,weakness,Protection,CcHolo is basically a stealthless thief of he locks you you ded , if you lock him he evaporatesIf you lock him, he elixir invuln, kites, heals up from 20% to 40%, attempts a burst, elixir again, dodges+mine bursts, then he evaporates :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velimere.7685 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 @Dawdler.8521 said:Holo can build for good damage and stuns but the thing is, there are still some flaws that come with the class. You wont have insane easy healing like a spellbreaker (unless its WvW and you go boon duration sustain), blocks are limited unlike a spellbreaker, no perma immunity to cc like a spellbreaker and in contrast to a spellbreaker he cant do damage while invoulnerable.It really is like a balanced version of the spellbreaker compared to the spellbreaker, if you get what I mean by now.You sound like a bad salesman. Holosmith wrecks Spellbreaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 @Velimere.7685 said:@Dawdler.8521 said:Holo can build for good damage and stuns but the thing is, there are still some flaws that come with the class. You wont have insane easy healing like a spellbreaker (unless its WvW and you go boon duration sustain), blocks are limited unlike a spellbreaker, no perma immunity to cc like a spellbreaker and in contrast to a spellbreaker he cant do damage while invoulnerable.It really is like a balanced version of the spellbreaker compared to the spellbreaker, if you get what I mean by now.You sound like a bad salesman. Holosmith wrecks Spellbreaker.Only great holos against bad spellbreaker, a good spellbreaker have all the tools he needs to counter burst attacks, right now it is the most tanky build of all professions, with simply shield 5 and 1 dodge you countered all the burst of holo plus dodge the elite without even pop the passive defy pain and the active one.Spellbreaker struggle a bit more on sustained damage in my opinion, or burst only by good thieves. The holo interrupt are just 2 and so easy to counter for a spellbreaker, as i said just shield 5 at the right time, dodge the elite, and you have another dodge extra plus gs3 for evade plus full counter and repeat... so yeah if you take a plat holo against a bronze spellbreaker then of course he win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allias.1420 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 @Velimere.7685 said:@Dawdler.8521 said:Holo can build for good damage and stuns but the thing is, there are still some flaws that come with the class. You wont have insane easy healing like a spellbreaker (unless its WvW and you go boon duration sustain), blocks are limited unlike a spellbreaker, no perma immunity to cc like a spellbreaker and in contrast to a spellbreaker he cant do damage while invoulnerable.It really is like a balanced version of the spellbreaker compared to the spellbreaker, if you get what I mean by now.You sound like a bad salesman. Holosmith wrecks Spellbreaker.I don't think holo flat out wrecks spellbreaker. It's a close fight, but I reckon holo will most of the time come out on top due to minesweeper damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I think the problem with Holo is not even damage but how long they can survive and how rather forgiving Heat/Overheating mechanic is (and the timing on those). Say you kited the burst out, you start to pressure Holo, he goes in Hulk-Mode within rather really short time again so you are forced to run. Even if you somehow get them low, they have plenty of survival tools. The biggest difference to say zerker thief is that Holo attacks are mostly AoE, it is not just some BS dealing high damage to one target but huge aoe murdering possibly half of your team.And as many mentioned, something needs to be done about mines. At the moment you can't really melee Holo.This is general issue with PoF: too much easy, effective AoE on short CDs. The expansion is extremely melee unfriendly - which i personally find (to put it really nicely) extremely bad design given that pvp in this game is all about standing in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 As other said, melee unfriendly expansion. With absurd mine damage, scourges and mirage shatters. melee is really a no go if u don't play any of the meta builds, heck spellbreaker is like the only class that can really stay in your face. core s/d can teleport around and has enough mobility and a role to be able to burst in teamfights. and ofcourse holosmith, everything else is a no go unless u outskill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 While Holo damage is surely too strong, the sustainability is the issue. Someone said “lock down the Holo.” Good luck with that considering they are nearly un cc able, have 8 sec of invulnerability, invisibility and good sustainability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 @Ario.8964 said:It seems like it has an enormous amount of damage from nowhere because of the dodge roll damage. Against a thief, the dodge roll can crit upwards of 12k (assuming all mines hit and everything crits) and there's not much you can do to avoid it besides just never going melee. The knockdowns you don't like are due to overcharged shot and holographic shockwave (neither of which crit upwards of 2.5k btw) and prime light beam (which has an insanely large telegraph so it's fine if it hits for a bit more). The cc damage or even the damage from photon forge isn't all that ridiculous, what's absurd (this is coming from someone who mains engi) is the dodge roll damage ability of holo. It carries bad players because they can dodge spam burst whenever they screw up their cc or their damage combos and good players seemingly can't be stopped because they know how to not only land their damage combos but also their dodge roll damage..Summary: Dodge roll damage is killing you, other stuff I'm assuming you know how to dodge.Except that the leap into cc makes it difficult or impossible to get out of the way of the giant laser. The damage is OP because it's difficult or impossible to evade. I've been killed too many times while my abilities were disabled by a long knockdown. The spec is way overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falan.1839 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Cause it's fun yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzet.3614 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 @otto.5684 said:While Holo damage is surely too strong, the sustainability is the issue. Someone said “lock down the Holo.” Good luck with that considering they are nearly un cc able, have 8 sec of invulnerability, invisibility and good sustainability.The average holosmith should have access to 2 stacks of stab and 2 stunbreaks 1 being the invulnI wouldnt call that unstoppableInvuln also locks skills The only broken synergy i see in the profession is mines+vent exhaustAlso the shockwave having 600 radius , it should be lowered to 450 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzet.3614 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 @otto.5684 said:While Holo damage is surely too strong, the sustainability is the issue. Someone said “lock down the Holo.” Good luck with that considering they are nearly un cc able, have 8 sec of invulnerability, invisibility and good sustainability.Average holo should have access to 2 stacks of stab 2 stunbreaks one being the invulnI wouldnt call that unstopabbleannoying when combined with the extra elixir s sure but thats about itAlso engis healing took a big hit the heal reset trait got its CD increased to 2 minutesThe only broken synergy i see so far is mines+vent , maybe make mines simply give dodge bomb a 50%ish damage gain at least then theres a timer to avoid the damageAlso shockwave radius should be decreased to 450The whole holosmith has too much sustain argument doesnt work when thief and mesmer can spam evades distortion and stealth infinetly regardless of specAlso warrior and guardians deal high damage while having more sustain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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