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Thread necro, but I find the difficulty to be perfect. The level design in general is brilliant in GW 2 across the board, it's what has brought me back to the game over and over again. Now one thing that is very important when navigating jump puzzles is a high framerate, we're talking at least 40 frames per second. The game is very framerate dependent and with a low framerate you will find yourself experiencing frustrating misses where, instead of jumping, your character will just run off a ledge. With a high framerate you will notice how much later you can hit the jump key and still activate a jump - your character can be more or less off the ledge completely.

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@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Thread necro, but I find the difficulty to be perfect. The level design in general is brilliant in GW 2 across the board, it's what has brought me back to the game over and over again. Now one thing that is very important when navigating jump puzzles is a high framerate, we're talking at least 40 frames per second. The game is very framerate dependent and with a low framerate you will find yourself experiencing frustrating misses where, instead of jumping, your character will just run off a ledge. With a high framerate you will notice how much later you can hit the jump key and still activate a jump - your character can be more or less off the ledge completely.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"jahaan.1405" said:When you can't get past one point in a jumping puzzle because you can't decipher exactly where to stand and exactly which way to face, it is no longer a challenge, just an annoyance.

Jumping
puzzle
.

Also I fail to see how "I can't finish it" [due to lacking abilities or w/e] = "it's no longer a challenge". Getting annoyed by not being able to complete/succeed at something is understandable, but it doesn't make that something overally bad or not challenging.

I raise you guys this:

You think that was fun? my god..it took me around 2 hours to finally make it to the top....and this was me back in 2015, I haven't done JPs since then...well just a few here and there to be honest

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@"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:If you happen to have LW4 E2 unlocked, pay NPC Hafren near Anniogel Encampment Waypoint (Sandswept Isles) a visit. The NPC sells the Prototype Position Rewinder, which is a personal return-button for difficult jumps with a very short cooldown.

Sadly it doesn't work on Draconis Mons...and given that the only JP in LW5 (Grothmar) also blocks it, I'd expect all future JP's to do the same. Works wonders for the others, though. (especially the nightmare mursaat token hunt known as Ember Bay)

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@Marius.9864 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Thread necro, but I find the difficulty to be perfect. The level design in general is brilliant in GW 2 across the board, it's what has brought me back to the game over and over again. Now one thing that is very important when navigating jump puzzles is a high framerate, we're talking at least 40 frames per second. The game is very framerate dependent and with a low framerate you will find yourself experiencing frustrating misses where, instead of jumping, your character will just run off a ledge. With a high framerate you will notice how much later you can hit the jump key and still activate a jump - your character can be more or less off the ledge completely.

@"jahaan.1405" said:When you can't get past one point in a jumping puzzle because you can't decipher exactly where to stand and exactly which way to face, it is no longer a challenge, just an annoyance.

Jumping
puzzle
.

Also I fail to see how "I can't finish it" [due to lacking abilities or w/e] = "it's no longer a challenge". Getting annoyed by not being able to complete/succeed at something is understandable, but it doesn't make that something overally bad or not challenging.

I raise you guys this: [vid]

You think that was fun? my god..it took me around 2 hours to finally make it to the top....and this was me back in 2015, I haven't done JPs since then...well just a few here and there to be honest

So.. you failed a jp. What is this supposed to change about my views?If you keep failing a precision jump... practice to be better.If you don't know where to go and don't want to figure it out on your own, use external sources like you'd do in the case of any other puzzle game you wouldn't want to figure out by yourself.If you don't like jumping puzzles in general then... don't do them.If you think you deserve to "win" just because you show up, then change your attitude I guess?

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I've found I enjoy some JPs more than others. I am not usually much of a fan of the jump puzzles which are more puzzle and less jumping (e.g. Silverwastes). Technically difficult JPs like Not So Secret don't bother me, but I would prefer not to have death on failure with no checkpoints if given the choice.

The Wintersday JP is a good example of the sort of JP I enjoy. Failure isn't a painful annoyance. You just respawn at the start, ready for another attempt. I especially enjoyed the melting snowflake platforms forcing the pace and the competitive element that introduces when other players are present.

I wouldn't mind seeing more of that kind of JP in the game. In fact, random thought here: Wouldn't it be cool if we had a modular JP that rearranges itself so it isn't exactly the same each time you enter? Toss in some fun mechanics like those disappearing platforms and multiple difficulty paths like Wintersday has and I could see myself going back to it on a regular basis, especially if it had daily rewards!

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@Marius.9864 said:

@nosleepdemon.1368 said:Thread necro, but I find the difficulty to be perfect. The level design in general is brilliant in GW 2 across the board, it's what has brought me back to the game over and over again. Now one thing that is very important when navigating jump puzzles is a high framerate, we're talking at least 40 frames per second. The game is very framerate dependent and with a low framerate you will find yourself experiencing frustrating misses where, instead of jumping, your character will just run off a ledge. With a high framerate you will notice how much later you can hit the jump key and still activate a jump - your character can be more or less off the ledge completely.

@"jahaan.1405" said:When you can't get past one point in a jumping puzzle because you can't decipher exactly where to stand and exactly which way to face, it is no longer a challenge, just an annoyance.

Jumping
puzzle
.

Also I fail to see how "I can't finish it" [due to lacking abilities or w/e] = "it's no longer a challenge". Getting annoyed by not being able to complete/succeed at something is understandable, but it doesn't make that something overally bad or not challenging.

I raise you guys this:

You think that was fun? my god..it took me around 2 hours to finally make it to the top....and this was me back in 2015, I haven't done JPs since then...well just a few here and there to be honest

I did "Not so Secret" with a friend, using up maybe 20 Teleports together and more than two hours. Took the diving while we were at it.But... while we sucked at it, others are a lot better.

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I like the ones that seem to be part of the map instead of forced into the map.. Well some feel forced to me..e.g the ones in the ascalon areas I really love, aswel as most in the human part of the maps. Dont care much for the asuran ones.

I hope they return to JP's in Cantha, even if they have to shutdown all mounts for that to happen.

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we haven't had any since Bjora so i hope we keep on getting new ones myselfedit: i also like how assassin's creed 2 does it, you don't have to have EXACT precision skills, since it is forgiving, but you gotta find the correct way to do it.also in there we can hang from our arms, or climb a small wall so it feels more alive, it's not just "jumping"

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@"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:I think mounts should be allowed in all JPs. Add a challenge mote in the beginning of them to deactivate mounts, gliders, portals and kits to get bonus rewards.

Yeah, I think I should be able to oneshot any raid/fractal/strike encounter too.In case this comparison seems a bit random: it seems to me that what you've said here is "I want to skip the content, but get the rewards for completing it". This is not how games work or should work tbh.

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I'd like to see them strategically place some floating rocks on Bloodstone Fen to make a Raptor specific jumping puzzle. Start on the airship and have some that float up and down for timed jumps. It's fun jumping across some of the rocks already there.

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The rewards for the JPs are such crap anyways, that I can hardly imagine people using mounts would be a very big deal, though it does sort of defeat the point of the puzzle.The problem I have is that they add no gliding/no mount areas to various world maps to 'protect the integrity' of the jumping puzzles, but it does mean that if you are just doing normal activities on that map unrelated to the JP, you get unmounted.And in lots of cases, you can still bypass the jumping puzzle with various mount & gliding skills (as new skills were added since that initial protection).For new maps, Anet can hopefully isolate any jumping puzzles enough that this is not an issue. But really, for an unid green item, not sure it really makes much difference.

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@Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 said:I do think that Weyandt's Revenge's starting leap of faith is a little too intolerant, the rest is fine though.

It's very easy to do, actually, when you know how. Stay on the right-handed side and slide down - you will take very little damage.

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:Step 1: remove them from the game.

P.S. I hate jumping puzzles, doesn't matter the difficulty. :(

And therefore others should have to be deprived of the fun? (No one is forcing you to do them.)

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@"Fipmip.7219" said:A moderately well known fact about Nintendo is when Shigeru was making Super Mario 64 for the nintendo 64, he discovered making pinpoint accurate jumps within a 3D space is just something that does not work. At all. Making a jumping game in 3D requires a pretty high degree of forgiveness to make it fun, a certain understanding of the player to make "good enough" judgement for a jump. However, the fine fellows at Anet don't seem to have gotten the memo, and as such we have minuscule stalagmite platforms, catchy headbanging geometry in awkward places, and unclear directional cues.

The pirate cave in Lions Arch immediately starts off with a *Guess the pixel perfect position you have to drop down into to even start the god kitten puzzle." There's no time to avoid obstacles if you get it wrong, and you can barely move in midair to begin with. You are then lead through a pitch black maze in which if you miss the rather unclear cue to walk through a wall and turn left at the end, guess what you'll be wandering through pitch blackness for as long as it takes you to realize you can use your minimap to navigate through without the help of the spirit in the first place. When you do finally get out of the maze, it is again, extremely unclear where to go, the answer is to spam jump your way up some rather badly textured geometry to a tunnel above and to your right.

There's problems with pretty much every puzzle I've tried so far with absolutely no signs of learning from Anet throughout the years of releasing expansions. I would like to at very least like to see some clear directional cues with the puzzles released in PoF, with the path clearly laid out in what you're supposed to do. I get that from time to time you may want players to navigate some form of maze, but the fact the maze is there and the different possible paths the maze has needs to be clearly shown. Don't make people randomly jump off unrecoverable cliffs just because they think you might have hidden the correct path down there. If you want to make a jumping puzzle difficult, you'll want to outfox your players using clever tricks, not make them struggle to overcome core gameplay elements.

Sorry you don't like jumping puzzles, I can understand that, but it doesn't mean they're bad. It means theyre not in your field of interest.

I dunno where to place Jumping puzzles in the Gaming universe, but at least they are unique, as far as I know. And I enjoyed every single one of them. Doesn't mean everyone does of course, especially as I can navigate and explore those not as random cliffs and jumps better than some. (Definitely not the best but still good enough) and more than anything I can deal with falling to my death many many times before getting frustrated if I get at all frustrated.

Dealing with failure or falling or even dying in GW2 jumping puzzles is a must.

Griffonrook Run is a perfect example of that. You need/can to drop down by running or jumping off cliffs, where jumping off might kill you and running off doesn't, or take a slower path. Something you can only know if you failed first. If you can't handle that, then you will not have fun with GW2 JPs for alot of the time.

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@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@"Fipmip.7219" said:A moderately well known fact about Nintendo is when Shigeru was making
Super Mario 64
for the nintendo 64, he discovered making pinpoint accurate jumps within a 3D space is just something that does not work. At all. Making a jumping game in 3D requires a pretty high degree of forgiveness to make it fun, a certain understanding of the player to make "good enough" judgement for a jump. However, the fine fellows at Anet don't seem to have gotten the memo, and as such we have minuscule stalagmite platforms, catchy headbanging geometry in awkward places, and unclear directional cues.

The pirate cave in Lions Arch immediately starts off with a *Guess the pixel perfect position you have to drop down into to even start the god kitten puzzle." There's no time to avoid obstacles if you get it wrong, and you can barely move in midair to begin with. You are then lead through a pitch black maze in which if you miss the rather unclear cue to walk through a wall and turn left at the end, guess what you'll be wandering through pitch blackness for as long as it takes you to realize you can use your minimap to navigate through without the help of the spirit in the first place. When you do finally get out of the maze, it is again, extremely unclear where to go, the answer is to spam jump your way up some rather badly textured geometry to a tunnel above and to your right.

There's problems with pretty much every puzzle I've tried so far with absolutely no signs of learning from Anet throughout the years of releasing expansions. I would like to at very least like to see some clear directional cues with the puzzles released in PoF, with the path clearly laid out in what you're supposed to do. I get that from time to time you may want players to navigate some form of maze, but the fact the maze is there and the different possible paths the maze has needs to be clearly shown. Don't make people randomly jump off unrecoverable cliffs just because they think you might have hidden the correct path down there. If you want to make a jumping puzzle difficult, you'll want to outfox your players using clever tricks, not make them struggle to overcome core gameplay elements.

Sorry you don't like jumping puzzles, I can understand that, but it doesn't mean they're bad. It means theyre not in your field of interest.

I dunno where to place Jumping puzzles in the Gaming universe, but at least they are unique, as far as I know. And I enjoyed every single one of them. Doesn't mean everyone does of course, especially as I can navigate and explore those not as random cliffs and jumps better than some. (Definitely not the best but still good enough) and more than anything I can deal with falling to my death many many times before getting frustrated if I get at all frustrated.

Dealing with failure or falling or even dying in GW2 jumping puzzles is a must.

Griffonrook Run is a perfect example of that. You need/can to drop down by running or jumping off cliffs, where jumping off might kill you and running off doesn't, or take a slower path. Something you can only know if you failed first. If you can't handle that, then you will not have fun with GW2 JPs for alot of the time.

I think you should realize my take is a little more nuanced than that. But this thread has gotten to the stage where most of the new comments are behind the point of discussion.

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@Solvar.7953 said:The rewards for the JPs are such kitten anyways, that I can hardly imagine people using mounts would be a very big deal, though it does sort of defeat the point of the puzzle.

Then it wouldn't matter if they remained not allowed in JPs either. If the loot doesn't matter then people who do not want to run the JP can just not do them.

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@Fipmip.7219 said:

@Fipmip.7219 said:A moderately well known fact about Nintendo is when Shigeru was making
Super Mario 64
for the nintendo 64, he discovered making pinpoint accurate jumps within a 3D space is just something that does not work. At all. Making a jumping game in 3D requires a pretty high degree of forgiveness to make it fun, a certain understanding of the player to make "good enough" judgement for a jump. However, the fine fellows at Anet don't seem to have gotten the memo, and as such we have minuscule stalagmite platforms, catchy headbanging geometry in awkward places, and unclear directional cues.

The pirate cave in Lions Arch immediately starts off with a *Guess the pixel perfect position you have to drop down into to even start the god kitten puzzle." There's no time to avoid obstacles if you get it wrong, and you can barely move in midair to begin with. You are then lead through a pitch black maze in which if you miss the rather unclear cue to walk through a wall and turn left at the end, guess what you'll be wandering through pitch blackness for as long as it takes you to realize you can use your minimap to navigate through without the help of the spirit in the first place. When you do finally get out of the maze, it is again, extremely unclear where to go, the answer is to spam jump your way up some rather badly textured geometry to a tunnel above and to your right.

There's problems with pretty much every puzzle I've tried so far with absolutely no signs of learning from Anet throughout the years of releasing expansions. I would like to at very least like to see some clear directional cues with the puzzles released in PoF, with the path clearly laid out in what you're supposed to do. I get that from time to time you may want players to navigate some form of maze, but the fact the maze is there and the different possible paths the maze has needs to be clearly shown. Don't make people randomly jump off unrecoverable cliffs just because they think you might have hidden the correct path down there. If you want to make a jumping puzzle difficult, you'll want to outfox your players using clever tricks, not make them struggle to overcome core gameplay elements.

Sorry you don't like jumping puzzles, I can understand that, but it doesn't mean they're bad. It means theyre not in your field of interest.

I dunno where to place Jumping puzzles in the Gaming universe, but at least they are unique, as far as I know. And I enjoyed every single one of them. Doesn't mean everyone does of course, especially as I can navigate and explore those not as random cliffs and jumps better than some. (Definitely not the best but still good enough) and more than anything I can deal with falling to my death many many times before getting frustrated if I get at all frustrated.

Dealing with failure or falling or even dying in GW2 jumping puzzles is a must.

Griffonrook Run is a perfect example of that. You need/can to drop down by running or jumping off cliffs, where jumping off might kill you and running off doesn't, or take a slower path. Something you can only know if you failed first. If you can't handle that, then you will not have fun with GW2 JPs for alot of the time.

I think you should realize my take is a little more nuanced than that. But this thread has gotten to the stage where most of the new comments are behind the point of discussion.

I didnt see that post was over 2 years old. :(

Also read your other posts now, which make a much clearer picture of what you mean. Your first post isnt that nuanced, so yeah...

Anyway, I still think JPs in this game are simply of another caliber than your normal platforming game. Its a side activity that are fabricated with the limitations of this game's engine are imo clearly the Devs having fun with it. Lots of them arent as polished, but I have always looked past that as it never bothered me. Then again, trying to jump on weird geometry is something I still do ingame right now.

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@Solvar.7953 said:The rewards for the JPs are such kitten anyways, that I can hardly imagine people using mounts would be a very big deal, though it does sort of defeat the point of the puzzle.

Rewards for JPs are kitten and yet you want to make mounts available there so people that dislike the JP can... skip the JP not for rewards?I don't understand the point here.

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@FrizzFreston.5290 said:

@Fipmip.7219 said:A moderately well known fact about Nintendo is when Shigeru was making
Super Mario 64
for the nintendo 64, he discovered making pinpoint accurate jumps within a 3D space is just something that does not work. At all. Making a jumping game in 3D requires a pretty high degree of forgiveness to make it fun, a certain understanding of the player to make "good enough" judgement for a jump. However, the fine fellows at Anet don't seem to have gotten the memo, and as such we have minuscule stalagmite platforms, catchy headbanging geometry in awkward places, and unclear directional cues.

The pirate cave in Lions Arch immediately starts off with a *Guess the pixel perfect position you have to drop down into to even start the god kitten puzzle." There's no time to avoid obstacles if you get it wrong, and you can barely move in midair to begin with. You are then lead through a pitch black maze in which if you miss the rather unclear cue to walk through a wall and turn left at the end, guess what you'll be wandering through pitch blackness for as long as it takes you to realize you can use your minimap to navigate through without the help of the spirit in the first place. When you do finally get out of the maze, it is again, extremely unclear where to go, the answer is to spam jump your way up some rather badly textured geometry to a tunnel above and to your right.

There's problems with pretty much every puzzle I've tried so far with absolutely no signs of learning from Anet throughout the years of releasing expansions. I would like to at very least like to see some clear directional cues with the puzzles released in PoF, with the path clearly laid out in what you're supposed to do. I get that from time to time you may want players to navigate some form of maze, but the fact the maze is there and the different possible paths the maze has needs to be clearly shown. Don't make people randomly jump off unrecoverable cliffs just because they think you might have hidden the correct path down there. If you want to make a jumping puzzle difficult, you'll want to outfox your players using clever tricks, not make them struggle to overcome core gameplay elements.

Sorry you don't like jumping puzzles, I can understand that, but it doesn't mean they're bad. It means theyre not in your field of interest.

I dunno where to place Jumping puzzles in the Gaming universe, but at least they are unique, as far as I know. And I enjoyed every single one of them. Doesn't mean everyone does of course, especially as I can navigate and explore those not as random cliffs and jumps better than some. (Definitely not the best but still good enough) and more than anything I can deal with falling to my death many many times before getting frustrated if I get at all frustrated.

Dealing with failure or falling or even dying in GW2 jumping puzzles is a must.

Griffonrook Run is a perfect example of that. You need/can to drop down by running or jumping off cliffs, where jumping off might kill you and running off doesn't, or take a slower path. Something you can only know if you failed first. If you can't handle that, then you will not have fun with GW2 JPs for alot of the time.

I think you should realize my take is a little more nuanced than that. But this thread has gotten to the stage where most of the new comments are behind the point of discussion.

I didnt see that post was over 2 years old. :(

Also read your other posts now, which make a much clearer picture of what you mean. Your first post isnt that nuanced, so yeah...

Anyway, I still think JPs in this game are simply of another caliber than your normal platforming game. Its a side activity that are fabricated with the limitations of this game's engine are imo clearly the Devs having fun with it. Lots of them arent as polished, but I have always looked past that as it never bothered me. Then again, trying to jump on weird geometry is something I still do ingame right now.

the fact this thread was necroed from 2 years ago has no impact on the number of comments it has. My original point is that while I didnt say I disliked jumping puzzles (which I clarify later), I think that they could have been built better and more frictionlessly with the games core controls and visuals interface. To simply say 'oh its just another sort of caliber' is akin to baking a cake with eggshells as a main ingredient, using too little flour, and calling it innovation. It is not a new, interesting reinvention of a familiar concept. it is a familiar concept done carelessly. The fact that some people actually like eggshell cake too little flour has little to do with it.

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The reason I want mounts & gliders allowed in jumping puzzles isn't to make it easy to get rewards, but so that instead these no mount/no gliding areas don't exist on the maps, so you don't suddenly get dismounted if you get too close to a jumping puzzle.For JPs that are sufficiently isolated from the map, I don't really care. Though if the goal is to really make sure people do the JP the 'right' way, portals and TP to a friend should also get removed, but people seem upset about that (why is bypassing them one way OK, but another way not?)

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@Solvar.7953 said:The reason I want mounts & gliders allowed in jumping puzzles isn't to make it easy to get rewards, but so that instead these no mount/no gliding areas don't exist on the maps, so you don't suddenly get dismounted if you get too close to a jumping puzzle.For JPs that are sufficiently isolated from the map, I don't really care. Though if the goal is to really make sure people do the JP the 'right' way, portals and TP to a friend should also get removed, but people seem upset about that (why is bypassing them one way OK, but another way not?)

Anet can just expand the warning zone then so plays have more time to react. It’s not like these jumping puzzles are really all in places that inconvenience those using mounts.

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Personally I'm happy with our jumping puzzles. Another popular MMO I used to play also had a few jumping puzzles (literally about only a handful of them for reasons you'll soon see) but the thing that separates their puzzles from ours is that once you're in mid-air that's it. You can't alter your direction or speed. If you needed to make a small jump you prayed you didn't over or undershoot your target. It was much easier to mess up there, not to mention there wasn't any chest at the end of them!

I'll be the first to admit though I'm no jumping puzzle guru and far from it! Even so I'm personally against letting us use mounts and gliders for JP's. A few nights ago I was playing with my friend who's new to GW2 and we stumbled across a JP I haven't seen yet. It took us about 15 minutes to figure it out but during that time we were trying different routes and exercising our noggins about how to beat it. When we finally did beat it both of us felt so accomplished (and unlike the other MMO actually rewarded. xD) Had mounts and gliders been enabled I would've most certainly just switched to my Mesmer and got on my springer to hop to the end and portal him without a second thought. Sure I could've forced myself not to if they were allowed but sometimes forced limitations help you to stop and smell the roses.

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@Fipmip.7219 said:

@Fipmip.7219 said:A moderately well known fact about Nintendo is when Shigeru was making
Super Mario 64
for the nintendo 64, he discovered making pinpoint accurate jumps within a 3D space is just something that does not work. At all. Making a jumping game in 3D requires a pretty high degree of forgiveness to make it fun, a certain understanding of the player to make "good enough" judgement for a jump. However, the fine fellows at Anet don't seem to have gotten the memo, and as such we have minuscule stalagmite platforms, catchy headbanging geometry in awkward places, and unclear directional cues.

The pirate cave in Lions Arch immediately starts off with a *Guess the pixel perfect position you have to drop down into to even start the god kitten puzzle." There's no time to avoid obstacles if you get it wrong, and you can barely move in midair to begin with. You are then lead through a pitch black maze in which if you miss the rather unclear cue to walk through a wall and turn left at the end, guess what you'll be wandering through pitch blackness for as long as it takes you to realize you can use your minimap to navigate through without the help of the spirit in the first place. When you do finally get out of the maze, it is again, extremely unclear where to go, the answer is to spam jump your way up some rather badly textured geometry to a tunnel above and to your right.

There's problems with pretty much every puzzle I've tried so far with absolutely no signs of learning from Anet throughout the years of releasing expansions. I would like to at very least like to see some clear directional cues with the puzzles released in PoF, with the path clearly laid out in what you're supposed to do. I get that from time to time you may want players to navigate some form of maze, but the fact the maze is there and the different possible paths the maze has needs to be clearly shown. Don't make people randomly jump off unrecoverable cliffs just because they think you might have hidden the correct path down there. If you want to make a jumping puzzle difficult, you'll want to outfox your players using clever tricks, not make them struggle to overcome core gameplay elements.

Sorry you don't like jumping puzzles, I can understand that, but it doesn't mean they're bad. It means theyre not in your field of interest.

I dunno where to place Jumping puzzles in the Gaming universe, but at least they are unique, as far as I know. And I enjoyed every single one of them. Doesn't mean everyone does of course, especially as I can navigate and explore those not as random cliffs and jumps better than some. (Definitely not the best but still good enough) and more than anything I can deal with falling to my death many many times before getting frustrated if I get at all frustrated.

Dealing with failure or falling or even dying in GW2 jumping puzzles is a must.

Griffonrook Run is a perfect example of that. You need/can to drop down by running or jumping off cliffs, where jumping off might kill you and running off doesn't, or take a slower path. Something you can only know if you failed first. If you can't handle that, then you will not have fun with GW2 JPs for alot of the time.

I think you should realize my take is a little more nuanced than that. But this thread has gotten to the stage where most of the new comments are behind the point of discussion.

I didnt see that post was over 2 years old. :(

Also read your other posts now, which make a much clearer picture of what you mean. Your first post isnt that nuanced, so yeah...

Anyway, I still think JPs in this game are simply of another caliber than your normal platforming game. Its a side activity that are fabricated with the limitations of this game's engine are imo clearly the Devs having fun with it. Lots of them arent as polished, but I have always looked past that as it never bothered me. Then again, trying to jump on weird geometry is something I still do ingame right now.

the fact this thread was necroed from 2 years ago has no impact on the number of comments it has. My original point is that while I didnt say I disliked jumping puzzles (which I clarify later), I think that they could have been built better and more frictionlessly with the games core controls and visuals interface. To simply say 'oh its just another sort of caliber' is akin to baking a cake with eggshells as a main ingredient, using too little flour, and calling it innovation. It is not a new, interesting reinvention of a familiar concept. it is a familiar concept done carelessly. The fact that some people actually like eggshell cake too little flour has little to do with it.

It's funny because literally the opposite can be said right back at you. So many people don't have a problem with these jumping puzzles along with its learning process and actually like them that the fact a few people -like you- dislike them is akin to the few people that argue the eggshell cake is better because they like it.You literally take your opinion about small part of mostly optional content and then claim that anyone that likes it is weird. Well... "No, u". :D

Also there's a varying degree of difficulty levels among the JPs, so pick the ones you're comfortable with and leave those "too hard for you" for people that enjoy them, just like those people don't try to claim that easy jumping puzzles somehow should be redesigned to be much harder "because it's an eggshell cake".

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Fipmip.7219 said:A moderately well known fact about Nintendo is when Shigeru was making
Super Mario 64
for the nintendo 64, he discovered making pinpoint accurate jumps within a 3D space is just something that does not work. At all. Making a jumping game in 3D requires a pretty high degree of forgiveness to make it fun, a certain understanding of the player to make "good enough" judgement for a jump. However, the fine fellows at Anet don't seem to have gotten the memo, and as such we have minuscule stalagmite platforms, catchy headbanging geometry in awkward places, and unclear directional cues.

The pirate cave in Lions Arch immediately starts off with a *Guess the pixel perfect position you have to drop down into to even start the god kitten puzzle." There's no time to avoid obstacles if you get it wrong, and you can barely move in midair to begin with. You are then lead through a pitch black maze in which if you miss the rather unclear cue to walk through a wall and turn left at the end, guess what you'll be wandering through pitch blackness for as long as it takes you to realize you can use your minimap to navigate through without the help of the spirit in the first place. When you do finally get out of the maze, it is again, extremely unclear where to go, the answer is to spam jump your way up some rather badly textured geometry to a tunnel above and to your right.

There's problems with pretty much every puzzle I've tried so far with absolutely no signs of learning from Anet throughout the years of releasing expansions. I would like to at very least like to see some clear directional cues with the puzzles released in PoF, with the path clearly laid out in what you're supposed to do. I get that from time to time you may want players to navigate some form of maze, but the fact the maze is there and the different possible paths the maze has needs to be clearly shown. Don't make people randomly jump off unrecoverable cliffs just because they think you might have hidden the correct path down there. If you want to make a jumping puzzle difficult, you'll want to outfox your players using clever tricks, not make them struggle to overcome core gameplay elements.

Sorry you don't like jumping puzzles, I can understand that, but it doesn't mean they're bad. It means theyre not in your field of interest.

I dunno where to place Jumping puzzles in the Gaming universe, but at least they are unique, as far as I know. And I enjoyed every single one of them. Doesn't mean everyone does of course, especially as I can navigate and explore those not as random cliffs and jumps better than some. (Definitely not the best but still good enough) and more than anything I can deal with falling to my death many many times before getting frustrated if I get at all frustrated.

Dealing with failure or falling or even dying in GW2 jumping puzzles is a must.

Griffonrook Run is a perfect example of that. You need/can to drop down by running or jumping off cliffs, where jumping off might kill you and running off doesn't, or take a slower path. Something you can only know if you failed first. If you can't handle that, then you will not have fun with GW2 JPs for alot of the time.

I think you should realize my take is a little more nuanced than that. But this thread has gotten to the stage where most of the new comments are behind the point of discussion.

I didnt see that post was over 2 years old. :(

Also read your other posts now, which make a much clearer picture of what you mean. Your first post isnt that nuanced, so yeah...

Anyway, I still think JPs in this game are simply of another caliber than your normal platforming game. Its a side activity that are fabricated with the limitations of this game's engine are imo clearly the Devs having fun with it. Lots of them arent as polished, but I have always looked past that as it never bothered me. Then again, trying to jump on weird geometry is something I still do ingame right now.

the fact this thread was necroed from 2 years ago has no impact on the number of comments it has. My original point is that while I didnt say I disliked jumping puzzles (which I clarify later), I think that they could have been built better and more frictionlessly with the games core controls and visuals interface. To simply say 'oh its just another sort of caliber' is akin to baking a cake with eggshells as a main ingredient, using too little flour, and calling it innovation. It is not a new, interesting reinvention of a familiar concept. it is a familiar concept done carelessly. The fact that some people actually like eggshell cake too little flour has little to do with it.

It's funny because literally the opposite can be said right back at you. So many people don't have a problem with these jumping puzzles along with its learning process and actually like them that the fact a few people -like you- dislike them is akin to the few people that argue the eggshell cake is better because they like it.You literally take your opinion about small part of
mostly optional
content and then claim that anyone that likes it is weird. Well... "No, u". :D

Also there's a varying degree of difficulty levels among the JPs, so pick the ones you're comfortable with and leave those "too hard for you" for people that enjoy them, just like those people don't try to claim that easy jumping puzzles somehow should be redesigned to be much harder "because it's an eggshell cake".

There's the tiny problem of ignoring textbook game design principles, which is the case im making here. call it subjective, call it biased, whatever makes you feel better about your own opinion. Many of the old jumping puzzles make you fight the game rather than the puzzle. I'm willing to bet more people dislike them as opposed to like them for mainly this reason.

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