World Restructuring

[Woop S.7851]

3 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

In the July 2 blog we said we'd be back in August with more information on Alliances. It's coming, don't worry. 🙂

Thanks for the update at this late hour! And also want to extend gratitude to the entire team working long hours behind the scenes to make it happen, should there be anything ‘we’ the player base can help with in order to lighten the burden (whether it be giving good feedbacks, testing, or to share ideas), please let us know! Thank you! 👍

[Sviel.7493]

It's reassuring to see a red post and get an update, but I'm still going to be a little worried.

I think, after 126 pages and several years, it's reasonable for me to have a few trust issues.

Unrelated: If a server on ABL holds SWC and Bay but no other camps feeding into Bay, they can still upgrade the keep from T0 to T3 in as little as ~37 minutes using Packed Yaks and Superspeed.  The yak path is also the shortest in the game and half of it is through the camp itself so the yak is only exposed for ~20 seconds.  If it is being escorted by someone giving it Superspeed, it is impossible to assassinate for a small group.

[Dawdler.8521]

22 minutes ago, Sviel.7493 said:

It's reassuring to see a red post and get an update, but I'm still going to be a little worried.

I think, after 126 pages and several years, it's reasonable for me to have a few trust issues.

Unrelated: If a server on ABL holds SWC and Bay but no other camps feeding into Bay, they can still upgrade the keep from T0 to T3 in as little as ~37 minutes using Packed Yaks and Superspeed.  The yak path is also the shortest in the game and half of it is through the camp itself so the yak is only exposed for ~20 seconds.  If it is being escorted by someone giving it Superspeed, it is impossible to assassinate for a small group.

Then you bring a bigger group.

 

One of the most amusing and/or confusing events to witness in WvW is a tagged commander assaulting a keep with 50+, failing to take it due to so much supplies for defenses and yet... he refuse to control the camps. And when he yells on roamers to do their job and those roamers note that 2 people cant exactly cap a camp defended by 15+... then the keep becomes T3 mid siege. And its everyones fault except the commanders, of course.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@Dawdler.8521 i mean, a comm tag doesn't make u a master of puppets either.

 

@ ontopic   

nice to see a red post in here, appreciated. we are all yet curious about the final plans for beta. for now, we have the e-specs betas anyways so all chill 🙂

[Sviel.7493]

22 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Then you bring a bigger group.

 

One of the most amusing and/or confusing events to witness in WvW is a tagged commander assaulting a keep with 50+, failing to take it due to so much supplies for defenses and yet... he refuse to control the camps. And when he yells on roamers to do their job and those roamers note that 2 people cant exactly cap a camp defended by 15+... then the keep becomes T3 mid siege. And its everyones fault except the commanders, of course.

It breaks my heart when I call out that SWC has packed yaks and a dozen defenders but the tag runs off to attack an EBG keep or something then is surprised Bay upgraded when they get back.  I mean...T2 in 15 minutes is not even hard.  It's completely busted.

[Baldrick.8967]

On 8/17/2021 at 6:49 AM, Josh Davis.7865 said:

In the July 2 blog we said we'd be back in August with more information on Alliances. It's coming, don't worry.

It's been coming for three years....

 

Maybe just maybe this time they will use a PTR and let real players test it before deciding to fix it in stone and repeat the fckup that was desert BL...

[Sviel.7493]

As far as we know, the current plan is for a live test.  The idea is precisely to iron out the kinks before it's set in stone.

Unrelated: On ABL, the northern towers are fed only by North Camp.  The yaks from North Camp have the longest and second-longest travel paths on any borderland.  For this reason, these towers take far longer to upgrade than any other objective--over twice as long, in fact.

 

The Northeast Tower takes 653.3 minutes to upgrade assuming North Camp never flips and no yaks are killed or slowed by sentries.  That's about 11 hours.  The Northwest Tower takes 732.7 minutes to upgrade under the same circumstances.  That's just over 12 hours.

 

On DBL, both northern towers are fed by North Camp and either Northwest Camp or Northeast Camp.  They still upgrade slower than any other objective on DBL, but are much faster than their ABL counterparts.

The Northeast Tower on DBL takes 286.4 minutes to upgrade, or a little under 5 hours.  The Northwest Tower on DBL takes 279.4 minutes to upgrade, which is also a little under 5 hours.

 

For this reason, as far as the northern towers are concerned, there is a significant PPT advantage to having DBL as your home borderland as well as a much higher chance of actually seeing the towers hit T3 in general.

[atgamer.8092]

Posted this here as well to get as many eyes on it as possible. Grouch gave some some confirmed alliance information on Monday night(the 16th)
Reddit post: 

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by atgamer.8092

[Sviel.7493]

There is now one week left in August.  That means we should be getting information and dates for Alliances within that time.  Or, perhaps, a delay announcement--which would be better than nothing.  We did get some information unofficially, at least.

Unrelated:
Prior to HoT, it took 10,200 supply to upgrade a keep to roughly the equivalent of T3 today.  Yaks delivered 80 supply per run back then so it took 128 yaks to get enough supply to upgrade the keep.  The actual time depended on the run speed of the workers inside and could be shortened by standing in the keep and giving them swiftness.

After HoT and the subsequent upgrade rework, it now takes 140 yaks to upgrade a keep to T3.  This can be shortened by going out into the field and giving Yaks swiftness.

However, SMC is an entirely different story.  It's the only objective fed by 6 camps and thus upgrades starkly faster under the new system rather than the old.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Sviel.7493
Forum first vomited several copies of the post, then ate the original.

[Sviel.7493]

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Edited August 24, 2021 by Sviel.7493

[Josh Davis.7865]

ICYMI  - the first World Restructuring beta is slated for Sep 24 - Oct 1.

 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-live-fall-and-winter-2021/

Edited August 24, 2021 by Josh Davis.7865

[Bristingr.5034]

4 hours ago, Sviel.7493 said:

Unrelated:
Prior to HoT, it took 10,200 supply to upgrade a keep to roughly the equivalent of T3 today.  Yaks delivered 80 supply per run back then so it took 128 yaks to get enough supply to upgrade the keep.  The actual time depended on the run speed of the workers inside and could be shortened by standing in the keep and giving them swiftness.

Honestly, we need that back. Spending supply on upgrades should be part of the war. Do you save the supply for an enemy attack or do use it to upgrade the walls, give yourselves a WP, or add cannons?

[Sviel.7493]

12 hours ago, Bristingr.5034 said:

Honestly, we need that back. Spending supply on upgrades should be part of the war. Do you save the supply for an enemy attack or do use it to upgrade the walls, give yourselves a WP, or add cannons?

With HoT, supply delivered by yaks was cut in half.  I think this was intended as a compromise between spending supply on upgrades and supply in the keep constantly being at 0--making defense largely impossible.

While I think there's room to improve on the system, I don't want to go back to never having supply to defend instead of mostly never having it because a hungry zerg ported in then left the map.

 

13 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

ICYMI  - the first World Restructuring beta is slated for Sep 24 - Oct 1.

 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-live-fall-and-winter-2021/

I totally missed it.  I stopped reading news articles because there wasn't anything relevant to me, but I guess I should get back in the habit.

[Kylden Ar.3724]

Will this beta need signups or just... happen to us?

[Swamurabi.7890]

We know you’re eager for the gritty details about world restructuring. We’ll be posting a dedicated blog on the feature well in advance of the first beta event, which will include an up-to-date overview of the system and our plans for the betas.

 

Will the feedback for beta be public or be hidden behind a NDA?

[Woop S.7851]

On 8/24/2021 at 11:29 AM, Josh Davis.7865 said:

ICYMI  - the first World Restructuring beta is slated for Sep 24 - Oct 1.

 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-live-fall-and-winter-2021/

 

If the HUD + Commander Radial UI/UX upgrades are added, it will help better the team-up experience for players of all levels, hope it's still on the drawing sheet 🤞
 

• When map population is low: system auto-prompt high rank players to become commanders
• Radial/Hud similar to Apex or Battlefield for quick in-game commands (for those that don't use actual voice-comm)
• Ability for commanders to assign "Squad leads" with numbers as sub-tags for a subgroup of say 5 players (allows micro-management + strategies)
• When a commander leaves (has to eat/sleep), system auto-assigns/prompts a high-rank player or Squad lead to take over as commander
• Alternative when commander leaves, 'keep' the current squad leader tag numbers (squad can still run tagless) just so the squad won't disappear & map becomes empty
• "Looking for Group" function needs overhaul + automation (encourage team-ups) depending on map/player numbers/statuses
• Color coding of subgroups (5-players for example) inside the same 50-man squad, the Asia version of gw2 had 'pink names' in order to differentiate a subgroup from the main group (blue names), maybe that can be enabled/borrowed?
• GW1 Alliance battles always standardized gear stats + player numbers for a fair match, guessing GW2 can't since PvE gear is for monetization

 

Reference below of a old battlefield game, all the functions honestly are all there:

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Woop S.7851

[Dawdler.8521]

On 8/26/2021 at 6:25 PM, Swamurabi.7890 said:

We know you’re eager for the gritty details about world restructuring. We’ll be posting a dedicated blog on the feature well in advance of the first beta event, which will include an up-to-date overview of the system and our plans for the betas.

 

Will the feedback for beta be public or be hidden behind a NDA?

An NDA for a closed beta would be absolutely hilarious. 

What's Anet going to do, sue you for saying the population balancing is kitten even with the new matchup system? Totally different from what people keep ranting about all the time.

If it's short period, I am still guessing on a week of open beta, live in WvW with constant reshuffles (every skirmish, every day or something like that) and afterwards we all reset to the worlds we where on previously. Since they did mention only guilds would be a factor in this beta, I suspect they will use them as the base and just randomly match larger guilds together as if they are alliances, then goes down to smaller guilds and solos to equal out worlds.

A longer "beta" (ie all changes continous in live WvW until it's arbitrarily "not beta" anymore) sort of falls on the fact that we have heard literally nothing yet on the actual client functions. It's a prerequisite that's needed weeks or months in advance. They talked about doing server backend stuff on the 31st patch sure, but the alliance system itself (ie guilds joining alliances and the management of them) has been mysteriously absent all this time. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[Goglak.2591]

Sadly this is the NBA approach to fixing WvW, it will allow people to build mega teams (alliances) and leave the little people like me who are deaf and usually not allowed join these big groups since i cant hear chat left out (Example is i cant get in an Indo group since his groups require you to be in chat so i just have to follow him around for content), apparently we get the scraps.

 

The real problem is population and time of day, when you have a queue for one server and the other two and have way less people, who do you think if going to farm everything? What you really need to do  is have WvW map population grow, if one world only has 25 people, then the other 2 should have 25 max also but as the other world queue grow, so does the limit, it brings teams closer to a balance, mega alliances will assure a queue 24/7

[Swamurabi.7890]

18 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

An NDA for a closed beta would be absolutely hilarious. 

A repeat of DBL beta would be worse. DBL feedback was NOT public. DBL replaced alpine and was a disaster for WvW. After several fixes to DBL it STILL is less played then alpine.

[Diku.2546]

KIS - Keep It Simple

 

Alliances is way too complex & doesn't have a proper Road Map to detail & coordinate the future of this game mode...imho

 

We often have endless discussions here trying to figure out just how Alliances is supposed to work.  It's very common that we even have discussions that second guess the speculation of how we think it's supposed to work.

 

The 7 steps below is able to fix WvW with existing game mechanics & is pretty straight forward in it's simplicity:

 

1)  Use Pure King of Hill Match-Up with 1 Server at the Top for each Region.

 

2)  Assign each Server one Map.  Expandable to accommodate player volume. 

 

3)  Allow players to choose 1 Home Server to defend.

 

4)  Allow players to attack any Server.

      Server Guesting modified for WvW - Existing mechanic

 

5)  Let players weekly pick 2 Enemy Servers to fight against.

      Friends & Family can fight together on Shared Enemy Map

 

6)  Only Reward players when attacking Higher ranked Server than Home Server.

      Being Ranked #1 has to be earned by fighting ALL lower ranked

 

7)  Use map capacity & queue size to control players entering a Server map.

      ANet can easily adjust & control these parameters

 

Alliance has never been fully explained & is way too complex with a lot of room for players to circumvent intended design objectives.

 

World Linking is a prime example of this & Guild Linking...will re-attempt to re-use Team Creation Building Blocks Concepts...that has a proven track record to fail...imho

 

Alliances & Guild Officers will be granted way too much power to control (discriminate against) other players while subjecting the game mode to possible extreme emotional political storms.

 

It's better to have a 7 Step solution that's player driven...yet ANet controlled...imho

 

Yours truly,
Diku

 

Credibility requires critical insight & time.
 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Diku.2546

[Dawdler.8521]

4 hours ago, Geezer.3947 said:

Sadly this is the NBA approach to fixing WvW, it will allow people to build mega teams (alliances) and leave the little people like me who are deaf and usually not allowed join these big groups since i cant hear chat left out (Example is i cant get in an Indo group since his groups require you to be in chat so i just have to follow him around for content), apparently we get the scraps.

Nothing of which change with alliances. If he doesnt allow you now, he wont after. Commander groups and alliances have nothing to do with each other. So no you dont get any more or less scraps due to alliances.

Whether you would be "allowed" to join an alliance is another matter and remain the reason why I'm so interested in how alliances are managed, rather than matched.  If its restrictive (say 5 guild limit) then smaller ~5-20 man guilds are also tossed out the window and even if you could in theory join a "pug guild" within the alliance, your own guild management then become exponentially more difficult since everyone have to follow suit rather than just having their own guild as wvw guild.

[Diku.2546]

#ComingSoon

or

#AreWeThereYet

 

Tried checking the game updates...

 

News on Alliances Road Map?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2021-08-31

or

News on Beta?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2021-09-01

 

Reference post:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-july-2021

 

"We’ll be back in August to share an overview of how World Restructuring works and the timing of the first live beta events."

 

Let us know...today is September.

 

Answer - News on Alliances Road Map

Couldn't find a post.

 

Answer - News on Beta

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/19480-world-restructuring/page/126/?tab=comments#comment-1443375

 

Yours truly,
Diku

 

Credibility requires critical insight & time.
 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Diku.2546

[Telgum.6071]

36 minutes ago, Diku.2546 said:

#ComingSoon

or

#AreWeThereYet

 

Tried checking the game updates...

 

News on Alliances Road Map?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2021-08-31

or

News on Beta?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2021-09-01

 

Reference post:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-july-2021

 

"We’ll be back in August to share an overview of how World Restructuring works and the timing of the first live beta events."

 

Let us know...it's September.

 

Yours truly,
Diku

 

Credibility requires critical insight & time.
 

If you had any of that critical insight you always write on your posts, you would know that the first beta was confirmed for 24th September one week ago.

And I won't bother linking you the source.

[Diku.2546]

Thank you I updated my post to reflect there's an answer to 1 of my 2 questions...before you posted a reply by 1 minute.

 

I didn't claim ALL my posts had critical insight...

 

Please go back & read what I'm saying.

 

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

vs

All my Posts are Credible because I have critical insight & time.

 

If posts over time are proven to have truth & substance...it's due to Critical Insight...and the author should be considered Credible...imho

 

Hope this better explains to you what I'm trying to say.

 

----------

 

"We’ll be back in August to share an overview of how World Restructuring works and the timing of the first live beta events."

 

Let us know...today is September.

 

Answer 1of2 - News on Alliances Road Map - aka overview

Couldn't find a post.

 

Answer 2of2 - News on Beta

I cared & bothered to looked up the source for the community:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/19480-world-restructuring/page/126/?tab=comments#comment-1443375

 

Yours truly,

Diku

 

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Diku.2546

[subversiontwo.7501]

We are working on a major overhaul of WvW guys, we know we have neglected you (2015)

 

We know we have neglected you guys, we figured we'd give you relinking so you don't have to wait as long, it is only temporary, also we have this Alliances thing (2016)

 

Hey, here is this Alliances thing we talked about two years ago (2018)

 

Hey, here are some updates to that Alliances thing (2018)

 

We have a team of engineers working on Alliances guys (2019)

 

We haven't forgotten about Alliances, we are looking forward to talking more about it in the comming months (2019)

 

We know we have neglected you, this thing we talked about two years ago is still a thing, WvW is a cornerstone game mode, we will talk more about it before the end of the summer (2021)

 

More information about Alliances before the end of august (2021)

 

"We will make a blog post well in advance of september 24th"

 

Here is a friendly reminder that it is now 20 days (or 3 weeks) left until the 24th

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501