World Restructuring

[SwagDAD.4356]

Join a guild and enjoy. If you are upset because you are losing server identity, create a guild with the server's name and stack your pugs in it. This is a really good step forward for anet.

[Lokki.1092]

Still no answer on how this is going to effect RPers and our communities.

Will we all need to join a massive WvW guild/alliance and just call it Tarnished Coast?
Will the alliances be large enough to accommodate all of us?Will we need to be tagged as WvW even those that done WvW so we all end up on the same "Server" every 2 months?

Can we get any clarification?

[Roxanne.6140]

@"Lokki.1092" said:Still no answer on how this is going to effect RPers and our communities.

Will we all need to join a massive WvW guild/alliance and just call it Tarnished Coast?

Will the alliances be large enough to accommodate all of us?Will we need to be tagged as WvW even those that done WvW so we all end up on the same "Server" every 2 months?

Can we get any clarification?

If the point of this whole exercise is to balance populations, I see no reason why servers will be large enough to accommodate an alliance the size of current BG. Unless of course the devs enjoy doing work for the sake of work.

[glass.3245]

Seems to be almost exclusively T1 people complaining, which is natural. We can't begrudge them having server pride when their server wins every week.

This has the potential to be the best thing to happen to WvW for years. It'll live and die by the algorithm and the reward structure, but anything that evens out the active WvW population and prevents bandwagoning at the start of matchups is brilliant. A more granular approach is exactly what we needed, and it makes perfect sense to hinge that on guilds and alliances.

[Swamurabi.7890]

@"Drinks.2361" said:So there is a pile of people in this thread worrying about "top tier alliances", why do you even think there will be anything like tiers? We'll just get a matchup & that's it, there will be no relationship between the different matchups & the sides will be shuffled before the next match starts.

So many people that have left for other games are excited for this, there are piles of games out there that have slightly different versions of open world PvE & raids but WvW really sets this game apart. Hopefully we'll see enough support to make a real competitive scene out of it.

You will see 4 timezone alliances compete for the top tier with 3 timezone alliances being in the next tier on down to one timezone alliances in the bottom tier.

The good thing is that unlike servers being locked, alliances will have the opportunity to recruit to fill their coverage gaps.The other good thing is that the players that do return won't overstack an already overstacked side.

The bad is that the alliance might have to kick some guilds out to make room for the new recruits to fill coverage gaps.The other bad is that there will probably still be matches, particularly in lower tiers, where alliances have little or no coverage and can't get players to fill the gaps.

[Ruq.5396]

Hype. Positive move forward for WvW.

[Verthurnax.2784]

Nothing of this matters if they don't remove the current condi meta. Removing condi will be the number 1 reason for players to return in wvw. It's not cool to play against a full squad of scourges that drop cancer on you and even most builds used in roaming are condi user...It will help even by normalizing fps rate in big zerg fights since condi is the main reason for fps drops.

[PariahX.6970]

I haven't played since PoF and wasn't really playing that much of WvW since linking so I am pretty much out of all the loops that count but just wanted to say as someone who use to put the idea of world pride ahead of everything else, this idea really is the best for the game as a whole, as it is now, so I wish ANET all the best in their implementation of it. I will echo the posts of a few others who said the most important thing ANET should try to do in designing this new system is to keep it flexible enough so when realities in the game change it can be more easily adapted. Easier said than done I am sure but well worth the effort so we don't end up stuck with another rigid rule set designed for a player-base that no longer exists (ie EotM).

I'd also suggest starting out with 4 week "seasons" to give the dust time to settle and the slowly increasing them. I happen to think 8 weeks is not long enough (12 seems closer to the sweet spot to me) once good balance and sorting is found but that will take a while and a lot of people will want shorter seasons until they get comfortable. I'd also be in favor of making transfers during seasons increasingly limited as the new system settles in. The pretty Alliance/Guild/Player bubble image doesn't really say much about limitations in numbers of any one of those categories (or maybe i missed it somewhere in this mega thread) but it seems to me that Alliances and WvW guilds shouldn't be more than 60% of a "teams" total population and that PvX guilds and individual players (guilds less than 6 might need to counted as individuals) should account for the rest so the "sorting hat" doesn't accidentally make any teams that are too purely of one focus. I know it sounds like a dream to only play with people who think alike and have your exact same goals but nothing actually kills the fun faster than lack of play style diversity. You really do need all the colors of the rainbow to make that WvW unicorn soar. <3

I hope some elements of this change have been in testing since it was first leaked over a year ago and that world linking was a way to prepare the remaining world pride folks for the next step in the games evolution but that is probably much too forgiving of me. It will be sad to lose some of those most devoted to the idea of world community building but most of them left a long time ago when it was clear ANET wasn't going to give them any tools to make their job more enjoyable. GW2 took a different fork in the road and it is about time WvW design structure reflected that. Too bad there won't be a new map with it. ~Cheers

[Jonesy.9728]

I'm super excited about this. There will be issues, there always are, but people have been asking for a shake up. What on earth is war without chaos? This gives us all an opportunity to have our game be the Wild West again, at least until we settle in. As far as I am concerned, the less control players have, the better, with respect to manipulating populations.

The one part I am a bit nervous about is the idea that we have to pick one WVW guild to be linked to. A lot of people run with multiple guilds ( a result of the MOST EXCELLENT idea to let us join five guilds ), and I am concerned about how that will shake out. Alliances are a good idea on the face of it, but in reality a lot of guilds don't get along as entities, per se, even though some of their players freely move between them.

I am excited the tier system has been blown up. The fights and the defense are what matters, the small victories and losses, the valiant efforts on the micro scale.

I am a little sad my server will be gone; I've been there the whole five years. But shrug at this point so many people and guilds have started, ended, transferred, split, reformed, gone away, come back, etc. etc. that honestly the mode is just a huge pool of people who already know each other. Reputations are tied more to guilds than they are to servers now, so a system that puts the Guild in Guild Wars 2 sounds great to me and I am looking forward to seeing what consequences, intended and unintended, this move creates.

[Turin.6921]

@Menaka.5092 said:This looks promising, but I have a few concerns.

• Small guilds and guild cap for alliances: in my WvW guild with about 40 people in the roster, only a few are still playing. If the guild size is not calculated based on active players I would probably have to kick my friends that are not playing, or I should join another WvW guild. Both those options are bad :(

Only the ppl that will directly set the guild as their personal WvW will be calculated and considered active. So as long as you make sure that only your active guildies have this set you should be good. Also The guild´s rating is calculated based on individual rating, which is based on individual activity. So even if you have ppl that have the guild set as their WvW guild their rating will influence the guild rating less if they are not actually active.

[Jonesy.9728]

@Sarge.9730 said:Quite the opposite, this is the first real opportunity guilds on BG will have had to recruit new people in years.

But they'll be sorted away from most of us, into Slytherin.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@Verthurnax.2784 said:Nothing of this matters if they don't remove the current condi meta. Removing condi will be the number 1 reason for players to return in wvw. It's not cool to play against a full squad of scourges that drop cancer on you and even most builds used in roaming are condi user...It will help even by normalizing fps rate in big zerg fights since condi is the main reason for fps drops.

Yep, but I wouldn't expect the moment to moment game play to improve with a population/server change anyway. We'll have to wait and see February 6th (or a week after when it's thoroughly run through).

[King Latif.6903]

Man, this brings happiness , thanks for not forgetting WvW ^^

[Loosmaster.8263]

@Swamurabi.7890 said:Will the Anet WvW guild switch alliances each week or will they be locked into an alliance for the season?

I'm pretty sure they are going to have to follow the rules like everyone else.

[nortask.8351]

soooo I just transfered my guildies to a server so that we can play together, are you telling me I just wasted like 400g?

[HazyDaisy.4107]

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:How is the loyalty pip going to work if there are no worlds to be loyal to? Apologies if this has already been asked.

It's not a loyalty pip anymore(they changed it shortly after starting it), its now the commitment pip, you get it for getting wood last week.

And if you did not transfer, which still makes server loyalty come into play for this pip currently whatever it's called. So, I ask again, how can we hold to the loyalty stipulation assosiated with this pip if none of us have a server? Is the transfer penalty going to be removed or is the whole pip going away?

There is no loyalty one anymore. The commitment pip only gives for finishing wood chest the previous week.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmish_reward_track

Apologies, you are correct about this, it's been awhile since I myself have transfered. The "loyalty" stipulation no longer applies to this pip, it applies to ALL pips, so, I'll reitterate again.

If there are no servers and everyone is just manually transferred through no choice of their own to a random session every 8 weeks, will they still collect pips that first week or will the system see this as a breach and penalize everyone until they've settled and participated for a week on their new "server" Alternately, what if players transfer on their own choice? Who gets the interrupt in pip acquisition? Will there still be an interrupt regardless of whether it was your choice to move or Anet moved you?

[Nightshade.2570]

Finally! We asked for this during the Adopt-a-Dev program and I know it was put off at that time! Just a note-your going to get lots of the Server leaders on here freaking out. Let them. Do what is best for the majority of players so that WvW will be reinvigorated.

Friendships and comraderie are easy to maintain if you truly wish it. I have friends from across different servers and I always will. This just gives us a chance at a better rotation. Sometimes the rotation will be a win and other times it will shake up your life.

[Menzo.2185]

@"Rampage.7145" said:Please ignore the maps and whatver add ons like mounts or whatver focus on making the game good and balanced active and fun again, then worry about all those new things, if anything 99% of the players do not really care about any of them tbh we just wanna come home from work and have fun playing with our friends, dosnt matter if it is the same 5 year old map over and over as long it is fun. Look at games like counter strike DOTA LOL or whatver same old maps, it is all about the gameplay being fun, sure u can add stuff once you actually accomplish the first.

But if u dont remember, some time ago they already did changes in the skirmish method and "nothing" really changed. But I agree with u, first focus in this changes... but stay with the others in line.

[Rampage.7145]

@Verthurnax.2784 said:Nothing of this matters if they don't remove the current condi meta. Removing condi will be the number 1 reason for players to return in wvw. It's not cool to play against a full squad of scourges that drop cancer on you and even most builds used in roaming are condi user...It will help even by normalizing fps rate in big zerg fights since condi is the main reason for fps drops.

Meta has nothing to do with players leaving tbh, players leave cuz the game sucked and it was boring no fights stale matchups, people who quit over the metas evolving are just a bunch of casuals tbh

[Drinks.2361]

@Swamurabi.7890 said:

@"Drinks.2361" said:So there is a pile of people in this thread worrying about "top tier alliances", why do you even think there will be anything like tiers? We'll just get a matchup & that's it, there will be no relationship between the different matchups & the sides will be shuffled before the next match starts.

So many people that have left for other games are excited for this, there are piles of games out there that have slightly different versions of open world PvE & raids but WvW really sets this game apart. Hopefully we'll see enough support to make a real competitive scene out of it.

You will see 4 timezone alliances compete for the top tier with 3 timezone alliances being in the next tier on down to one timezone alliances in the bottom tier.

The good thing is that unlike servers being locked, alliances will have the opportunity to recruit to fill their coverage gaps.The other good thing is that the players that do return won't overstack an already overstacked side.

The bad is that the alliance might have to kick some guilds out to make room for the new recruits to fill coverage gaps.The other bad is that there will probably still be matches, particularly in lower tiers, where alliances have little or no coverage and can't get players to fill the gaps.

I think you're greatly overestimating the size of each alliance relative to the overall 8 week world. There is no reason for Anet to allow Alliances to be so large that they can manipulate the matchups

[Rampage.7145]

@nortask.8351 said:soooo I just transfered my guildies to a server so that we can play together, are you telling me I just wasted like 400g?

You can still play on that server for months untill this go live, welcome to MMO games, entertainment that allows u to trade virtiual/real currency in echange for in game items/services

[Retsuko.2035]

Kind of excited about this new change. Change that is much needed.

Even though communities will "End" here, they can still continue in the form of alliances. It's not a place or server that makes a community, but the people who are part of it.

I'm hoping that alliances won't go beyond the 500 people size. If you bring total up to 1000 or more, I'm afraid we'll end up at the same situation or worse where some (too many) "hardcore" guilds are going to stack up in one alliance.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@HazyDaisy.4107 said:How is the loyalty pip going to work if there are no worlds to be loyal to? Apologies if this has already been asked.

It's not a loyalty pip anymore(they changed it shortly after starting it), its now the commitment pip, you get it for getting wood last week.

And if you did not transfer, which still makes server loyalty come into play for this pip currently whatever it's called. So, I ask again, how can we hold to the loyalty stipulation assosiated with this pip if none of us have a server? Is the transfer penalty going to be removed or is the whole pip going away?

There is no loyalty one anymore. The commitment pip only gives for finishing wood chest the previous week.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skirmish_reward_track

Apologies, you are correct about this, it's been awhile since I myself have transfered. The "loyalty" stipulation no longer applies to this pip, it applies to ALL pips, so, I'll reitterate again.

If there are no servers and everyone is just manually transferred through no choice of their own to a random session every 8 weeks, will they still collect pips that first week or will the system see this as a breach and penalize everyone until they've settled and participated for a week on their new "server" Alternately, what if players transfer on their own choice? Who gets the interrupt in pip acquisition? Will there still be an interrupt regardless of whether it was your choice to move or Anet moved you?

I'd assume it would operate the same as it does today, speaking from a little brother server standpoint we get pips on weeks of relinks.

[Lonami.2987]

A few important points I feel need to be addressed:

• Alliances need to be bigger. Only 1000 member is not enough. Lot of guilds have people that don't play WvW, forcing us to kick them out would be lame as hell.
• Pips shouldn't reset weekly, but every 8 weeks instead, more like PvP seasons. Weekly reset is very punishing for those who can't play often.
• Server identity shouldn't be lost in the process. Create new banners to rally around, for those who want it, something like preset alliances. Those who don't want to stick to a default flag can still stay random. Or just make a new system, where you can join a faction, or stay as a mercenary, with different bonuses. Alliances can then become a new faction or stay mercenary. Assigning players 100% randomly to a server is not a good idea.
• Languages should be part of that "rally around" element. I want to play with Spaniards, but if we get random people from random languages, WvW will become a mess. Let people choose a default language to join. Maybe even support languages that the game isn't localized for. I don't know what's the situation, but I heard there's unofficial Russian and Italian servers, where players of those languages gather. Remember that not everyone knows English, even if that's the language they're playing at.
• Give PvE a look too. The community aspect of PvE servers was lost with megaservers, and now that servers are completely gone, it could be a good opportunity to apply these WvW changes to PvE as well. At least, make sure to keep some language preference factor for PvE.
• Making matches last 8 weeks sounds insane. 1-2 weeks would be better, no one wants to be playing against the same enemies for 8 weeks.

That's it, for now. Really surprised and happy about the switch to alliances, been part of the crowd asking for it since ages ago, but never felt like we would ever get it.

[Kite.5327]

@Raymond Lukes.6305 said:

@"Phlogistn.7893" said:I realize that many servers no longer feel they have an "identity". That is not, I feel, the case for Tarnished Coast and some other servers I know of. Some people have been on their server since day one, have friends across guilds and have a history. Although "something" needed to be done with WvW I am sad to think that all the people we play with here will be dispersed to the winds. Even stating they can be in an "alliance" with alliances changing from season to season, makes the continuity of community null. Baby, bathwater.....

F L Ö Guild Leader/Commander Valkyrja Söngur [ODIN], a Tarnished Coast Server Admin

Alliances don't change unless you change them. Alliances are groups of guilds that want to play together. They will be limited in size but will remain together as long as the members of the alliance want.

Except an alliance is only 500-1000 people. Our community on Desolation is far more than this number. So all of the people not privileged enough to enter this select group are thrown to the wind, friends and teammates you might have known for years and years, potentially enemies. Moreover, there are "enemy" guilds whom we have fought for years and years, and now suddenly might be on the same world, expected to work together?? You need to go the other direction and bring back server pride, not delete servers.