nerf other classes too, and give them 0.5 sec delay

[Axl.8924]

Lets compare Shades to traps and stealth.Traps are invisible, can be stacked in control point and stay there for a long time. If traited/geared properly they are deadly. Trapper DH with bow is most powerful trap user.Stealth gives invisibility. Can sneak up and unleash a burst of instane dmg before we can react. It work as defensive mechanism as well.

Shades, unlike traps or stealth are visible and not active before scourge activate it, paying with LF. Even full burst of F2 to F5 wont kill in any scenario. They telegraph their attacks clearly and can be countered with condi cleanse. Whats more, shades are far from being defensive or bursty. Now with reduced condi cleanse they don't support as well. Shades last only 10 seconds.

Summary:Traps - invisible, long-lasting, deadly, almost no way to avoidStealth - invisible, deadly, defensive, no way to reveal enemy (there are few skills accessible by only couple of classes)Shades - visible, short lifespan, weak, delayed and telegraphed activation.

Possible fixes:Reduce duration of traps to 10sec. Make them visible. Put a 0.5s delay after stepping in to avoid.Stealth - give access to reveal skill to all classes, spread between weapon skills, mechanics and utilities, daze stealth-users when exiting stealth for 0.5s, Make a graphical information when player leave stealth (big red circles going inward player locaton).Bonus:All AoE skills need to be put on minimum 0.5s delay with visible activation location (lava fonts, glyph of storms, arrows barrage etc). They are more powerful than unavioided shade anyway.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

Most AoE skills have a cast time so you can see what there doing :) unlike shades before patch :)

[polvere.2805]

Was stealth even a broken mechanic ? This guy must have lost a lot of rank after the BALANCE patch

DH traps have a small delay before going off, maybe besides the ulti and the heal one. At least for me when i jump in them i have a small window to react. Also note that traps are NOT repleaceable like shades with that little trait called sand savant if i am not wrong. Traps are avoidable, with the shitload of invulnerability all classes got, by dodging, (only one pulses damage). Probably it's your fault that are walking in them hoping to facetank them (and actually some classes can do it)

Another post of " i can't or don't want to play around a certain mechanic so nerf it" or also " i can't faceroll on my keyboard with scourge anymore and get a teamkill while my firebrand babysits me". Scourge have the same disruptive potential of before, but now there are ways to play around them. I still see scourges everywhere and still doing a lot of damage besides the BALANCES.

[Axl.8924]

actually i'm more into WVW and pve.I really enjoy wvw.

[Razor.6392]

So many scourges back to their normal mmr lol.

[Felipe.1807]

Most of DH traps have cast time, Test of Faith and Fragments of Faith are the only ones that are insta cast...and all of traps also have a activation time, there are times you can get killed even after the heal trap got activeded, all damage traps can be triggered and with a single dodge roll you can negate all the damage. Dont think even after the nerf you can try to compare Scourge shades with DH, Ranger or Thief traps.

[Egorum.9506]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Most AoE skills have a cast time so you can see what there doing :) unlike shades before patch :)

Except shatters, because they only hit for 10k from stealth.

[SnowHawk.3615]

rev sucks when put up against anything they have to be in their face with but everythign else is fine if you play it right - rev is the same way but you have to work extra hard for it

[SnowHawk.3615]

@Axl.8924 said:

Lets compare Shades to traps and stealth.Traps are invisible, can be stacked in control point and stay there for a long time. If traited/geared properly they are deadly. Trapper DH with bow is most powerful trap user.Stealth gives invisibility. Can sneak up and unleash a burst of instane dmg before we can react. It work as defensive mechanism as well.

Shades, unlike traps or stealth are visible and not active before scourge activate it, paying with LF. Even full burst of F2 to F5 wont kill in any scenario. They telegraph their attacks clearly and can be countered with condi cleanse. Whats more, shades are far from being defensive or bursty. Now with reduced condi cleanse they don't support as well. Shades last only 10 seconds.

Summary:Traps - invisible, long-lasting, deadly, almost no way to avoidStealth - invisible, deadly, defensive, no way to reveal enemy (there are few skills accessible by only couple of classes)Shades - visible, short lifespan, weak, delayed and telegraphed activation.

Possible fixes:Reduce duration of traps to 10sec. Make them visible. Put a 0.5s delay after stepping in to avoid.Stealth - give access to reveal skill to all classes, spread between weapon skills, mechanics and utilities, daze stealth-users when exiting stealth for 0.5s, Make a graphical information when player leave stealth (big red circles going inward player locaton).Bonus:All AoE skills need to be put on minimum 0.5s delay with visible activation location (lava fonts, glyph of storms, arrows barrage etc). They are more powerful than unavioided shade anyway.

awe another stealth/trap complainer :C git gud

[Jackalrat.5493]

Scourge is awesome. It's still super strong. It's still DEFINITELY meta. it is still the clear pick over Reaper and core necro.

If you are crying because you think Scourge is undertuned then you are the very definition of a L2P problem.

[Alatar.7364]

I can't believe that someone just called Shades weak and compared them to Traps.This definitely needs no further comments.

[Hitman.5829]

Are you complaining about 0.5 sec on shades? Man let me tell you our warrior problems, we have:

• 0.75 sec on longbow burst
• 0.75 sec on arcing arrow
• 0.75 sec on shield bash
• 0.75 sec on breaching strike
• 0.75 sec on Aura slicer
• Hammer? hahaha good luck hitting anything with it.
• You can see warrior in slow motion and tell what his next move is going to be.

Our skills are the most telegraphed in the game and we are a melee class!Now, lets talk about macro users. before there was a 0.5 sec on shades, people could create macros that would execute instant spells and deal an insane about of damage.I am glad Anet listened to or posts and fixed that issue. No more macro users for necro! No more face rolling with 1 key button!

[Axl.8924]

Yeah but that 0.5 delay means now people won't ever fall into the trap, and cleanses got nerfed too hard.It was hit with the nerf bat too hard.Some nerf yeah it was maybe over performing, but there is a dif between using a sledgehammer for the job and using a chisel.

[hurrado.2346]

@Jackalrat.5493 said:Scourge is awesome. It's still super strong. It's still DEFINITELY meta. it is still the clear pick over Reaper and core necro.

If you are crying because you think Scourge is undertuned then you are the very definition of a L2P problem.

Almost everything is a clear pick over reaper and core necro.....

[Crab Fear.1624]

@hurrado.2346 said:

@Jackalrat.5493 said:Scourge is awesome. It's still super strong. It's still DEFINITELY meta. it is still the clear pick over Reaper and core necro.

If you are crying because you think Scourge is undertuned then you are the very definition of a L2P problem.

Almost everything is a clear pick over reaper and core necro.....

yeah right. reaper is very strong, but in the average hands scourge is better

[Saiyan.1704]

You can easily dodge and out play Traps... You can't dodge Shades. Rather, you're more likely to get boon ripped,.. good luck trying to dodge while getting Crippled, Chilled, and Immobilized.

[zalt.8937]

Sure, lets have traps as f1-f5 and give them a 900 units range. I dont think anyone going trapper would mind a .5 seconds cast time as a trade off.

[ElderNewt.5840]

Traps and Mesmer clones deserve a 0.5 delay as well..

[Crinn.7864]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@hurrado.2346 said:

@Jackalrat.5493 said:Scourge is awesome. It's still super strong. It's still DEFINITELY meta. it is still the clear pick over Reaper and core necro.

If you are crying because you think Scourge is undertuned then you are the very definition of a L2P problem.

Almost everything is a clear pick over reaper and core necro.....

yeah right. reaper is very strong, but in the average hands scourge is better

The only advantageous matchups Reaper has right now is tempest, sword weaver, and renegade.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@hurrado.2346 said:

@Jackalrat.5493 said:Scourge is awesome. It's still super strong. It's still DEFINITELY meta. it is still the clear pick over Reaper and core necro.

If you are crying because you think Scourge is undertuned then you are the very definition of a L2P problem.

Almost everything is a clear pick over reaper and core necro.....

yeah right. reaper is very strong, but in the average hands scourge is better

The only advantageous matchups Reaper has right now is tempest, sword weaver, and renegade.

Is that like a list of the classes/specializations you perceive to be the weakest? I have seen a surge in players playing reaper (acroos multiple accounts, multiple times, and multiple server locations), and they seem to do well against more than just those 3.

[Crinn.7864]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@hurrado.2346 said:

@Jackalrat.5493 said:Scourge is awesome. It's still super strong. It's still DEFINITELY meta. it is still the clear pick over Reaper and core necro.

If you are crying because you think Scourge is undertuned then you are the very definition of a L2P problem.

Almost everything is a clear pick over reaper and core necro.....

yeah right. reaper is very strong, but in the average hands scourge is better

The only advantageous matchups Reaper has right now is tempest, sword weaver, and renegade.

Is that like a list of the classes/specializations you perceive to be the weakest? I have seen a surge in players playing reaper (acroos multiple accounts, multiple times, and multiple server locations), and they seem to do well against more than just those 3.

I'm assuming that both sides are being played somewhere in the vicinity of optimally.

Reaper vs thief is ~2/8Reaper vs SB is ~1/9Reaper vs Holo is ~4/6Reaper vs FB is unending.Reaper vs Druid is ~ 0/10Reaper vs Mesmer ~ 1/9Reaper vs power Herald/Shiro is ~ 5/5

[MedievalThings.5417]

Well, thief will NEVER be balanced until they remove initiative and give their skills proper cooldowns.Warrior needs some balancing, as they can tank in full berserker gear, high health, tons of invuln and block, cc, gap closers, escape.Engineer is nearly as bad as warrior with all the burst, cc, invul, blocks and they have stealth.I could go on, but there is no need. The game has no balance.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Ubi.4136 said:Well, thief will NEVER be balanced until they remove initiative and give their skills proper cooldowns.Warrior needs some balancing, as they can tank in full berserker gear, high health, tons of invuln and block, cc, gap closers, escape.Engineer is nearly as bad as warrior with all the burst, cc, invul, blocks and they have stealth.I could go on, but there is no need. The game has no balance.

Perhaps you are right, but with the removal of initiative I would expect extreme compensation. Might as well be a super squishy ranger without a pet....

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@hurrado.2346 said:

@Jackalrat.5493 said:Scourge is awesome. It's still super strong. It's still DEFINITELY meta. it is still the clear pick over Reaper and core necro.

If you are crying because you think Scourge is undertuned then you are the very definition of a L2P problem.

Almost everything is a clear pick over reaper and core necro.....

yeah right. reaper is very strong, but in the average hands scourge is better

The only advantageous matchups Reaper has right now is tempest, sword weaver, and renegade.

Is that like a list of the classes/specializations you perceive to be the weakest? I have seen a surge in players playing reaper (acroos multiple accounts, multiple times, and multiple server locations), and they seem to do well against more than just those 3.

I'm assuming that both sides are being played somewhere in the vicinity of optimally.

Reaper vs thief is ~2/8Reaper vs SB is ~1/9Reaper vs Holo is ~4/6Reaper vs FB is unending.Reaper vs Druid is ~ 0/10Reaper vs Mesmer ~ 1/9Reaper vs power Herald/Shiro is ~ 5/5

I don't know where you got that list from, so if it is not too much trouble do thief vs all those same foes.

[tartarus.1082]

They do it’s called a cast time