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[SUGGESTION] Redemption for Brahmm


Ithilwen.1529

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Its a bit odd for one to argue that if someone dislikes the character, considers him poorly written, that it can only mean that they dont understand him.

I understand the backstory, the supposed motivations, etc...and consider him, and the circumstances around his current state, to be poorly written.

I do not care if anyone likes the character or considers anything poorly written.... There are a series of facts and events that have led the character to behave a certain way that players don't like, but Braham was NOT WRITTEN TO BE YOUR PERSONAL STORY SLAVE THAT MUST OBEY COMMANDS AND FALL IN LINE.. as some are assuming the role of this character should be... So I'll tell ya clearly, most of you don't understand Braham the character or the intended relationship role to our player characters.

I never asked for him to be my slave. Ive seen no one else request that either. I will state that you clearly, by your own representation, do not understand what most of us do understand.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Its a bit odd for one to argue that if someone dislikes the character, considers him poorly written, that it can only mean that they dont understand him.

I understand the backstory, the supposed motivations, etc...and consider him, and the circumstances around his current state, to be poorly written.

I do not care if anyone likes the character or considers anything poorly written.... There are a series of facts and events that have led the character to behave a certain way that players don't like, but Braham was NOT WRITTEN TO BE YOUR PERSONAL STORY SLAVE THAT MUST OBEY COMMANDS AND FALL IN LINE.. as some are assuming the role of this character should be... So I'll tell ya clearly, most of you don't understand Braham the character or the intended relationship role to our player characters.

I like how you are telling us what the writer intended. A lot of people do not like him. He would never be invited to a guild that I led, nor would I ever take him into combat. I don't expect his character to obey, but people are responsible for what they say and do, and he has said and done things that justify most players disdain for him. You can not tell us what we do and do not understand, because you are not in our heads. I can tell you that I do understand his past, his motivations, and why I think he behaves the way he does. I can also tell you that if he dies I will not be telling stories at his funeral, if I even went.

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@Ashen.2907 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Its a bit odd for one to argue that if someone dislikes the character, considers him poorly written, that it can only mean that they dont understand him.

I understand the backstory, the supposed motivations, etc...and consider him, and the circumstances around his current state, to be poorly written.

I do not care if anyone likes the character or considers anything poorly written.... There are a series of facts and events that have led the character to behave a certain way that players don't like, but Braham was NOT WRITTEN TO BE YOUR PERSONAL STORY SLAVE THAT MUST OBEY COMMANDS AND FALL IN LINE.. as some are assuming the role of this character should be... So I'll tell ya clearly, most of you don't understand Braham the character or the intended relationship role to our player characters.

I never asked for him to be my slave. Ive seen no one else request that either. I will state that you clearly, by your own representation, do not understand what most of us do understand.

Follow the thread better and keep it in context. And It's generally helpful to pick more than just 1 word from an entire sentence... "NOT WRITTEN TO BE YOUR PERSONAL STORY SLAVE THAT MUST OBEY COMMANDS AND FALL IN LINE"

"Brahmm has thoroughly annoyed some players with his immaturity."

"Giving him a good kitten whupping would give the players some recompense ... and Norn that he is, Brahmm would have to respect/fall into line"

"Just make sure that the sword I use to cut him with gets accidentally poisoned"

"He needs to not only realize how much stronger the PC is, but that he's worth respecting. I say, let him try to take out Jormag, let him fail horribly, lose tons of fellow norn to the Dragon. Have it be humiliating, and shameful."

"If anything, the ones needing redemption from this whole fiasco is our PC for letting Braham behave the way he does."

...And those are just a few quotes showing the mentality of the posters... So Braham has been written to be a jerk now because he is struggling with the murder of his mother, and some of you players assume that, because you are the almighty commander in the story, the character Braham needs to be punished for having a bad attitude over the loss of his mother?

Let's try using some critical thinking outside of personal opinions on how well the character was designed or written. You, and a few others, are obviously missing the key points I have made.

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Brahmm has thoroughly annoyed some players with his immaturity.

As a way to potentially bring him back into the story; Why not have him publicly challenge the Commander? This is a typically Norn way of resolving "who is the alpha" type conflicts. Giving him a good kitten whupping would give the players some recompense ... and Norn that he is, Brahmm would have to respect/fall into line with the Commander who bested him.

This would be a way of re-inserting Eir's son into the storyline.

Seems most of you don’t understand this character, or how the back story and recent events made a shift in attitude. It’s one dimensional to look at this as “my character is the cool commander, and only my character matters, so everyone else must “fall in line” and behave how I want them to behave because it’s all about me”.

Spend some time reading the story of the character, because there is a lot more to him than a character designed to be your obedient servant in the story.

Edit- and to convey an important point...

The devs didn’t aim to create a team dynamic where we are like Darth Vader and our group is made up of obedient stormtroopers that “fall in line”. This story is more like we are Captain America, and our team is made up of unique characters that have their own background and personality. The Avengers team doesn’t always agree, or even get along, but their individuality is actually one of their greatests strengths when working together as a team. It’s about strength through diversity, not strength through assimilation.

Also, any story would be completely boring if all surrounding characters were just loyal subjects, and all of their dialogs revolved around some version of “yes my lord”.

Seems most of you don’t understand this character, or how the back story and recent events made a shift in attitude. It’s one dimensional to look at this as “my character is the cool commander, and only my character matters, so everyone else must “fall in line” and behave how I want them to behave because it’s all about me”.

Excelsior.

But it's that way. Also, we are not "cool" because of putting others down, we are cool by doing cool stuff together (like with Catlock and Kasmeer and Canach).I honestly do not care about what Braham's life is outside of that, he can go elsewhere when he can not respect "us". What is this? (At least Charr seem to understand the term "hierachy"). I mean, look at all the other dudes and dudettes at our command. They are seemingly fine with us, and vice-versa. Braham is strange. He is like that guy that you never want to be around you, but for some reason, you are forced to see him.

I had a workmate like that and gained some senses when this kind of person is around, so my personal aversion is fuelled by that a bit more..What do I care exactly when he drank so much that he just barks at me or behave like a child?

I understand, but you are not looking at the bigger picture with this character.

Looking at the wiki shows Braham lost his father as a child and only found out about his mother, Eir, from that tragic event. He carried resentment toward her, but eventually grew to love her. She was then killed by a servant of Mordremoth, and his pain has driven him to hold anger and want revenge...

Braham story quote that sums up a lot... “With every moment we wait, someone else's mother dies! I won't give Jormag a few days! I won't give Jormag a few minutes!”

You, as a human, would probably experience those same emotions and start being antisocial and negative to the people around you. And I’m sure you wouldn’t take it well to being told by anyone to “get over it”, and to just “fall back in line”.
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@Swagger.1459 said:So I'll tell ya clearly, most of you don't understand Braham the character or the intended relationship role to our player characters.

No, we understand the character and the intended relationship just fine. We dislike him and the writing for him because it's Twilight levels of awful. It's Other M levels of awful.

Please stop assuming that we're idiots.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Brahmm has thoroughly annoyed some players with his immaturity.

As a way to potentially bring him back into the story; Why not have him publicly challenge the Commander? This is a typically Norn way of resolving "who is the alpha" type conflicts. Giving him a good kitten whupping would give the players some recompense ... and Norn that he is, Brahmm would have to respect/fall into line with the Commander who bested him.

This would be a way of re-inserting Eir's son into the storyline.

Seems most of you don’t understand this character, or how the back story and recent events made a shift in attitude. It’s one dimensional to look at this as “my character is the cool commander, and only my character matters, so everyone else must “fall in line” and behave how I want them to behave because it’s all about me”.

Spend some time reading the story of the character, because there is a lot more to him than a character designed to be your obedient servant in the story.

Edit- and to convey an important point...

The devs didn’t aim to create a team dynamic where we are like Darth Vader and our group is made up of obedient stormtroopers that “fall in line”. This story is more like we are Captain America, and our team is made up of unique characters that have their own background and personality. The Avengers team doesn’t always agree, or even get along, but their individuality is actually one of their greatests strengths when working together as a team. It’s about strength through diversity, not strength through assimilation.

Also, any story would be completely boring if all surrounding characters were just loyal subjects, and all of their dialogs revolved around some version of “yes my lord”.

Did they aim to make an annoying crybaby that runs away when things get tough, like world destruction, and when something goes wrong, he blames you? Because if that was the goal, great job. I think you are misunderstanding that the character gets under people's skin, and they don't like him because he sucks.

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Im pretty sure everyone understand why he is like that because background and shit but hell you know where braham is leading us, right back in time where the team will split and then everyone regretfull and not wanting to apologize to the other member (doesnt it look like something we already saw)

Honestly my character is a Norn and the Commander, as a Norn i want to kill Jormag, as the commander i cant allow someone to put everyone in danger because he is being selfish and immature, so yeah the character is annoying, his devellopement is bring poorly and i just reallllllly hope that i will not be stuck with this parody of a compagnon that will most likely bring death upon Rox (lets be honest she didnt get develloped much so meh... might aswell be sacrificed to save the hated child (still hope not tought) )

I didnt liked him at first and the more it appear the less i can stand him ....

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Its a bit odd for one to argue that if someone dislikes the character, considers him poorly written, that it can only mean that they dont understand him.

I understand the backstory, the supposed motivations, etc...and consider him, and the circumstances around his current state, to be poorly written.

I do not care if anyone likes the character or considers anything poorly written.... There are a series of facts and events that have led the character to behave a certain way that players don't like, but Braham was NOT WRITTEN TO BE YOUR PERSONAL STORY SLAVE THAT MUST OBEY COMMANDS AND FALL IN LINE.. as some are assuming the role of this character should be... So I'll tell ya clearly, most of you don't understand Braham the character or the intended relationship role to our player characters.

I never asked for him to be my slave. Ive seen no one else request that either. I will state that you clearly, by your own representation, do not understand what most of us do understand.

Follow the thread better and keep it in context. And It's generally helpful to pick more than just 1 word from an entire sentence... "NOT WRITTEN TO BE YOUR PERSONAL STORY SLAVE THAT MUST OBEY COMMANDS AND FALL IN LINE"

"Brahmm has thoroughly annoyed some players with his immaturity."

"Giving him a good kitten whupping would give the players some recompense ... and Norn that he is, Brahmm would have to respect/fall into line"

"Just make sure that the sword I use to cut him with gets accidentally poisoned"

"He needs to not only realize how much stronger the PC is, but that he's worth respecting. I say, let him try to take out Jormag, let him fail horribly, lose tons of fellow norn to the Dragon. Have it be humiliating, and shameful."

"If anything, the ones needing redemption from this whole fiasco is our PC for letting Braham behave the way he does."

...And those are just a few quotes showing the mentality of the posters... So Braham has been written to be a jerk now because he is struggling with the murder of his mother, and some of you players assume that, because you are the almighty commander in the story, the character Braham needs to be punished for having a bad attitude over the loss of his mother?

Let's try using some critical thinking outside of personal opinions on how well the character was designed or written. You, and a few others, are obviously missing the key points I have made.

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Brahmm has thoroughly annoyed some players with his immaturity.

As a way to potentially bring him back into the story; Why not have him publicly challenge the Commander? This is a typically Norn way of resolving "who is the alpha" type conflicts. Giving him a good kitten whupping would give the players some recompense ... and Norn that he is, Brahmm would have to respect/fall into line with the Commander who bested him.

This would be a way of re-inserting Eir's son into the storyline.

Seems most of you don’t understand this character, or how the back story and recent events made a shift in attitude. It’s one dimensional to look at this as “my character is the cool commander, and only my character matters, so everyone else must “fall in line” and behave how I want them to behave because it’s all about me”.

Spend some time reading the story of the character, because there is a lot more to him than a character designed to be your obedient servant in the story.

Edit- and to convey an important point...

The devs didn’t aim to create a team dynamic where we are like Darth Vader and our group is made up of obedient stormtroopers that “fall in line”. This story is more like we are Captain America, and our team is made up of unique characters that have their own background and personality. The Avengers team doesn’t always agree, or even get along, but their individuality is actually one of their greatests strengths when working together as a team. It’s about strength through diversity, not strength through assimilation.

Also, any story would be completely boring if all surrounding characters were just loyal subjects, and all of their dialogs revolved around some version of “yes my lord”.

Seems most of you don’t understand this character, or how the back story and recent events made a shift in attitude. It’s one dimensional to look at this as “my character is the cool commander, and only my character matters, so everyone else must “fall in line” and behave how I want them to behave because it’s all about me”.

Excelsior.

But it's that way. Also, we are not "cool" because of putting others down, we are cool by doing cool stuff together (like with Catlock and Kasmeer and Canach).I honestly do not care about what Braham's life is outside of that, he can go elsewhere when he can not respect "us". What is this? (At least Charr seem to understand the term "hierachy"). I mean, look at all the other dudes and dudettes at our command. They are seemingly fine with us, and vice-versa. Braham is strange. He is like that guy that you never want to be around you, but for some reason, you are forced to see him.

I had a workmate like that and gained some senses when this kind of person is around, so my personal aversion is fuelled by that a bit more..What do I care exactly when he drank so much that he just barks at me or behave like a child?

I understand, but you are not looking at the bigger picture with this character.

Looking at the wiki shows Braham lost his father as a child and only found out about his mother, Eir, from that tragic event. He carried resentment toward her, but eventually grew to love her. She was then killed by a servant of Mordremoth, and his pain has driven him to hold anger and want revenge...

Braham story quote that sums up a lot... “With every moment we wait, someone else's mother dies! I won't give Jormag a few days! I won't give Jormag a few minutes!”

You, as a human, would probably experience those same emotions and start being antisocial and negative to the people around you. And I’m sure you wouldn’t take it well to being told by anyone to “get over it”, and to just “fall back in line”.

Perhaps its an ESL issue because none of the posts you quote make any reference to a desire for him to serve as a slave or anything even remotely similar. You do realize that being annoyed with another's immaturity is not the same as desiring their enslavement right?

If you need help better understanding some of the posts in this thread please feel free to speak up.

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@Ashen.2907 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Its a bit odd for one to argue that if someone dislikes the character, considers him poorly written, that it can only mean that they dont understand him.

I understand the backstory, the supposed motivations, etc...and consider him, and the circumstances around his current state, to be poorly written.

I do not care if anyone likes the character or considers anything poorly written.... There are a series of facts and events that have led the character to behave a certain way that players don't like, but Braham was NOT WRITTEN TO BE YOUR PERSONAL STORY SLAVE THAT MUST OBEY COMMANDS AND FALL IN LINE.. as some are assuming the role of this character should be... So I'll tell ya clearly, most of you don't understand Braham the character or the intended relationship role to our player characters.

I never asked for him to be my slave. Ive seen no one else request that either. I will state that you clearly, by your own representation, do not understand what most of us do understand.

Follow the thread better and keep it in context. And It's generally helpful to pick more than just 1 word from an entire sentence... "NOT WRITTEN TO BE YOUR PERSONAL STORY SLAVE THAT MUST OBEY COMMANDS AND FALL IN LINE"

"Brahmm has thoroughly annoyed some players with his immaturity."

"Giving him a good kitten whupping would give the players some recompense ... and Norn that he is, Brahmm would have to respect/fall into line"

"Just make sure that the sword I use to cut him with gets accidentally poisoned"

"He needs to not only realize how much stronger the PC is, but that he's worth respecting. I say, let him try to take out Jormag, let him fail horribly, lose tons of fellow norn to the Dragon. Have it be humiliating, and shameful."

"If anything, the ones needing redemption from this whole fiasco is our PC for letting Braham behave the way he does."

...And those are just a few quotes showing the mentality of the posters... So Braham has been written to be a jerk now because he is struggling with the murder of his mother, and some of you players assume that, because you are the almighty commander in the story, the character Braham needs to be punished for having a bad attitude over the loss of his mother?

Let's try using some critical thinking outside of personal opinions on how well the character was designed or written. You, and a few others, are obviously missing the key points I have made.

@"Ithilwen.1529" said:Brahmm has thoroughly annoyed some players with his immaturity.

As a way to potentially bring him back into the story; Why not have him publicly challenge the Commander? This is a typically Norn way of resolving "who is the alpha" type conflicts. Giving him a good kitten whupping would give the players some recompense ... and Norn that he is, Brahmm would have to respect/fall into line with the Commander who bested him.

This would be a way of re-inserting Eir's son into the storyline.

Seems most of you don’t understand this character, or how the back story and recent events made a shift in attitude. It’s one dimensional to look at this as “my character is the cool commander, and only my character matters, so everyone else must “fall in line” and behave how I want them to behave because it’s all about me”.

Spend some time reading the story of the character, because there is a lot more to him than a character designed to be your obedient servant in the story.

Edit- and to convey an important point...

The devs didn’t aim to create a team dynamic where we are like Darth Vader and our group is made up of obedient stormtroopers that “fall in line”. This story is more like we are Captain America, and our team is made up of unique characters that have their own background and personality. The Avengers team doesn’t always agree, or even get along, but their individuality is actually one of their greatests strengths when working together as a team. It’s about strength through diversity, not strength through assimilation.

Also, any story would be completely boring if all surrounding characters were just loyal subjects, and all of their dialogs revolved around some version of “yes my lord”.

Seems most of you don’t understand this character, or how the back story and recent events made a shift in attitude. It’s one dimensional to look at this as “my character is the cool commander, and only my character matters, so everyone else must “fall in line” and behave how I want them to behave because it’s all about me”.

Excelsior.

But it's that way. Also, we are not "cool" because of putting others down, we are cool by doing cool stuff together (like with Catlock and Kasmeer and Canach).I honestly do not care about what Braham's life is outside of that, he can go elsewhere when he can not respect "us". What is this? (At least Charr seem to understand the term "hierachy"). I mean, look at all the other dudes and dudettes at our command. They are seemingly fine with us, and vice-versa. Braham is strange. He is like that guy that you never want to be around you, but for some reason, you are forced to see him.

I had a workmate like that and gained some senses when this kind of person is around, so my personal aversion is fuelled by that a bit more..What do I care exactly when he drank so much that he just barks at me or behave like a child?

I understand, but you are not looking at the bigger picture with this character.

Looking at the wiki shows Braham lost his father as a child and only found out about his mother, Eir, from that tragic event. He carried resentment toward her, but eventually grew to love her. She was then killed by a servant of Mordremoth, and his pain has driven him to hold anger and want revenge...

Braham story quote that sums up a lot... “With every moment we wait, someone else's mother dies! I won't give Jormag a few days! I won't give Jormag a few minutes!”

You, as a human, would probably experience those same emotions and start being antisocial and negative to the people around you. And I’m sure you wouldn’t take it well to being told by anyone to “get over it”, and to just “fall back in line”.

Perhaps its an ESL issue because none of the posts you quote make any reference to a desire for him to serve as a slave or anything even remotely similar. You do realize that being annoyed with another's immaturity is not the same as desiring their enslavement right?

If you need help better understanding some of the posts in this thread please feel free to speak up.

I requoted the entire sentence for context. Here, so you I understand the point I’m making, because you are apparently not putting it all together...

“NOT WRITTEN TO BE YOUR PERSONAL STORY ............ THAT MUST OBEY COMMANDS AND FALL IN LINE"

Read the op and wonder why I would make the replies I made....

Edit- And just incase you are still missing the main points and hung up on the "slave" or "enslavement" stuff... look up the definition of "metaphor"

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I don’t think Braham is terribly written because he’s a lot like my father after he lost my grandma. Angry and irritable and impulsive. I think Braham is showing some signs of depression actually.

What’s terribly written is the fact that the Commander doesn’t do anything about his insults.

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I don't understand how people can say that he is poorly wroten. I mean he has a personality and behaves like Braham... Its not like I tell people that they are poorly written because I don't like them or they don't do as I say.

I did like Braham before HoT, he and Taimi was my favorite characters but Braham got angry and Taimi became pretty depressed (she is better now again though). But people change and they show that in a good way in this game.

What I don't like though is that I would like more options to reply Braham, the commanders behavior against Braham is not like my character at all. But it fits the commanders replies, the commanders has been like this all the time.

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Redeem himself? Perhaps by taking a bullet/spell/rotten apple for the commander and apologizing with his dying breath. Even so, I would not feel sorry, but rather be like "Thank the si... erm... five that's over! About friggin time!"Get me right, I pretty much liked the cocky brat in the beginning, even swallowed him being assy for some time after Eir died, but this never ending stream of crybabydom has to stop and is way overdone by now. There was a point at which my commander could have forgotten and forgiven what Braham did, but not anymore. Not anymore. turns away and a single teardrop can be seen reflecting the passing light of day

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I won't dispute Braham has been a huge jerk. I found myself angry at my replies to him more than once. It'd give me a good feeling to slap him around a bit in a duel. What if one of the Spirits of the Wild asked us to give him another chance? Eir is, after all, a Legend.

Wolf might be a good choice as She is all about the pack.

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