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Why so few engineers?


Echoherb.6528

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@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@"mauried.5608" said:Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

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@Lunateric.3708 said:

@"mauried.5608" said:Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

Spot on.

I've played the game on and off since beta and have leveled guardian, necro, and ele to 80 in core before trying the engineer. Since trying the engineer, I've barely touched the other three. Maybe I like the high activity level, but everything else just bores me now.

Core engineer can still do very well in small scale pvp. You have enough cc with rifle, battering ram, moa, throw wrench, and magnet to juggle people and plenty of disengage with gear shield, 2x shrink (if traited), and stealth. In PvE, I'm not having any problems playing scrapper right now but I admit I'm not raiding.

IMO, there is only three things that need to be fixed.

1) take away the randomness associated with elixers. People want their character to perform how they tell it to and having an unpredictable mechanic doesn't satisfy that. The mechanic seemed fun themacticly but doesn't translate to gameplay well.2) Improved trait synergy. There are too many traits that add discrete attributes and not enough that stack well with others. If the whole is supposed to be better than the sum of its parts, the parts need to work together. The revamped firearms line was a good attempt and this, but that's just one line.3) Buff turrets. Give them more health, more damage, make them apply boons in an area, and let them be mobile. Im not sure why a turret build cant be on the same level as a necro summoning build.

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@Lunateric.3708 said:

@"mauried.5608" said:Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

...why add time constraints to game content available 24/7 all year long? There is no logical explanation.....

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@Frostmane.9734 said:

@"mauried.5608" said:Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

Spot on.

I've played the game on and off since beta and have leveled guardian, necro, and ele to 80 in core before trying the engineer. Since trying the engineer, I've barely touched the other three. Maybe I like the high activity level, but everything else just bores me now.

Core engineer can still do very well in small scale pvp. You have enough cc with rifle, battering ram, moa, throw wrench, and magnet to juggle people and plenty of disengage with gear shield, 2x shrink (if traited), and stealth. In PvE, I'm not having any problems playing scrapper right now but I admit I'm not raiding.

IMO, there is only three things that need to be fixed.

1) take away the randomness associated with elixers. People want their character to perform how they tell it to and having an unpredictable mechanic doesn't satisfy that. The mechanic seemed fun themacticly but doesn't translate to gameplay well.2) Improved trait synergy. There are too many traits that add discrete attributes and not enough that stack well with others. If the whole is supposed to be better than the sum of its parts, the parts need to work together. The revamped firearms line was a good attempt and this, but that's just one line.3) Buff turrets. Give them more health, more damage, make them apply boons in an area, and let them be mobile. Im not sure why a turret build cant be on the same level as a necro summoning build.

Make his skills synergize real well with each other in a combo field like manner. Engie is supposed to be an Engineer. Let him engineer some posterior destruction.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"mauried.5608" said:Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

...why add time constraints to game content available 24/7 all year long? There is no logical explanation.....

there's a very logical, simple explanation most adults will give you in a heartbeat: you die eventually so you try to make the most out of the time you get, specially when you do more than gaming.

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They are overreliant on the kits, and without kits, you practically playing ranger or thief with no weapon swap. Not to mention those kits are also underperforming.Toolbelt skills are not that good, have longest cast time, and is probably a gimmick CC. Though, I can say the kits does gives you flexibility, but not optmization on DPS.

I would not say its the underpowered class, but engineer are too locked out to deviate from kits since its release. They also have the smallest number of options in weapons on core (rifle and pistol). If you had to sacrifice that grenade for an "alchemist" build throwing elixirs, you won't be optimal.

Turrets are the WORST "minion" you can get in game, it does not stop projectiles, stationary, and does not scale with your stats, cant crit, and can be effected by condi, with very small healthpool and toughness.

Elixirs are nice, I can tell that its good, but the toolbelt skills are just RNG based sometimes, and the elite elixir is a casino roll whether you die or kill everybody. Its unnecessary risk. And why would you need to be the boon support, when the rest of the class can get any boon they want by themselves, barring chronomancer or druid on raids?

And you had to type more buttons than elementalist, since most of engie skills are easily dodgeable unlike ele or necro, timing your skills is just mentally wracking, I'm comparing them in terms of aoe skills. Like orbital toolbelt skill, that is just bad where people can just walk away as the blaring aoe warning pops up. Engie brings flexibility on pvp and wvw especially, you can make engie get two blocks (Gear shield and shield S4 and S5 or Hammer), you can have unblockable pull, with invisible projectile Magnet. Chills, fire damage and blast on bombs. The options are there, and that is where engie shines. But in a world where resistance boon, and stability boon can be acquired like a gun at walmart, and all professions are viable to make instadelete builds while practically taking no damage. That is where engie has lost their place and meaning.

Back then engie was the go to, prolonged battles, taking 1v3 battles with sheer mechanical skills swapping kits. Those days are dead, as you can't even overcharge your healing turrets anymore, regen nerf, glue shot nerf, bomb kit nerf. It went too far, and pushed the other engie away into other classes. Kits, turrets and other engie skills became a gimmick rather than a solution.

Another problem you don't see engineer that much, is because they are very, unflashy compared to others. The skills are very bugged at release, and their projectiles are very low quality compared to others, you can't see the animation well whether they hit or not.

Right now, most people just play holo because they give you exactly what you need, a ranged and a guranteed crit for close up damage in one package, with very high damage output. At that point, you might as well play Berserker Warrior.

Engineer sticks out to the few, its unappealing aesthetically and tiring to play. But when you just played the game on hard mode for 6 years, having to do more effort just to reach the substandard of other profession, you kinda just deal with it.Anet forgotten engineer, holo is nice sure, but I won't call it an engie but rather a discount berserker.

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@Lunateric.3708 said:

@"mauried.5608" said:Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

Raids gave validity and a relevant place to shine for the Meta mentality. Elitist toxicity in dungeons was an occasional annoyance, elitist toxicity in raids is the basic policy. Raids didn't add anything, they just feed it and made it bigger and ravenous.

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@Ardid.7203 said:

@"mauried.5608" said:Its sad that in this game everyone seems so fixated on maximum dps, kill monsters as quick as possible, and get as many rewards as possible in the least possible time, that the concept of playing the game just for fun is totally lost.Which is why I play Engineers because they are fun.

Years ago many players tried to warn the community about the cancer of raids...we were not listened

Don't let the GW2 Reddit hear you say that. You will get down voted into oblivion and flamed.

If there was a downvote button here I'd downvote him anyway not because of his opinion but because of the fundamentally wrong perception raids did anything to the game that wasn't already there. People used to kick necros and rangers on sight when dungeons were the "endgame" and ask for X amounts of AP.

People will always seek to optimize their time on any game. Time is a finite thing, you know?

elitist toxicity in raids is the basic policy

[citation needed]

I am near 1k LIs and most of them have been puging in the LFG, not gonna lie and say I haven't found "toxic elitist" groups but they are incredibly far from being common enough to become the basic policy.

You do you, though.

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We discuss meta all day. It multiplies around forums and most people see it as a necessity. Even in friendly groups it is recommended to use meta builds to avoid problems with other people, or to keep the group "viable". Taking time to punch the golem has become a perceived requisite to go into raids.

Even if someone never witneses any toxicity in raids (hard to believe, but possible, I think), the basic attitude around raids is to respect meta to avoid toxicity. It controls behaviour, it defines what is right and wrong. It is policy.

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@Echoherb.6528 said:

@"Jaruselka.5943" said:Cause everyone knows Anet actively hates the class and regrets putting it in the game. They should just delete it and use Reinhardt from OW...better implementation anyway.

What does Reinhardt do? I don't play OW

Reinhardt is a tank in that game.

He carries a huge hammer, and can use a shield. He can't swing the hammer while having the shield up. And he has a charging ability.You can see them here:

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@Faolon.9702 said:

@"Jaruselka.5943" said:Cause everyone knows Anet actively hates the class and regrets putting it in the game. They should just delete it and use Reinhardt from OW...better implementation anyway.

What does Reinhardt do? I don't play OW

Reinhardt is a tank in that game.

He carries a huge hammer, and can use a shield. He can't swing the hammer while having the shield up. And he has a charging ability.You can see them here:

I got an infraction for that comment. :)

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My engineer feels very, very strong...When there's time to actually do stuff. Most of the game (that isn't 'casual' anyhow, like ranked pvp and whatnot) suffers from ridiculous amounts of power creep or whatever you'd like to call it. Being able to chain leaps/blast finishers into fields (which engi has a lot of and I love the options/combinations!) is just...well, those bonuses are flat numbers that haven't scaled with the creep, nor have the animations themselves sped up. The times when leaping a water field (sword 3, f1 using heal turret for example) are rare because the heal quite often just..isn't enough. I can take -so- much more damage in the time it takes me to do those actions. The defense doesn't scale.

Being able to use mortar kit and doing something with its fields to cleanse condis, and building around that condi cleanse so you can get something elsewhere you would originally have dedicated to getting some cleanse....doesn't work anymore, cuz nowadays the condis you're trying to cleanse will have killed you by the time you can do anything with the field.

Everything that doesn't scale in this game should be looked at. Health pools (to my knowledge they haven't changed since launch - except may like ,guard HP or something? I forget). Combo fields/finisher effects, kits, etc.

Aaaand that's why so few engis. We have a lot of stuff! Just a whoooole lotta work to actually get anywhere in the more competitive settings. I do enjoy it in open world tho.

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Engi was the class I wanted to play most when GW2 launched, and I did. What interested me the most was the turrets. They were alright; not amazing but not terrible. Then the turret nerf happened... and they never recovered. That, paired with the cancer that is Kits - ie. playing Flight of the Bumblebee on your keyboard (

) - with their ridiculous APM (actions per minute) requirement to eke out the same DPS as other classes do one-handed, really killed my interest in playing one. Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of the Engineer; it's interesting from a thematic standpoint. I just don't find it fun to play.

Perhaps if kits weren't a requirement for entry into high level Fractals/Raiding I would feel more inclined to play one. Unfortunately, without kits the Engi just doesn't do any damage.

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Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of the Engineer; it's interesting from a thematic standpoint. I just don't find it fun to play.

Thats my point of view too. I'm normaly total in for steampunk or tech based classes. But the whole kit swapping thing gets pretty fast anoying. Also the turrets are really useless. Scrappers gyros arent as cool as they could. Holo is okayish, feels a bit uninspired by the design and cant get me back to the engi. Even the rifle and pistol skills just feels plain and boring.

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The Engineer would be OK if it wasnt for the mindset of most of the players in the game who think that playing the game meanskilling everything in sight as quickly as possible, getting the reward again as quickly as possible, and then repeating.Any class that cant kill things instantly = useless.I often wonder if people ever even look at the scenery or ever walk anywhere.Mounts have made the problem even worse, as you now often see players jumping on their mounts to get to the next bad guy that has to be killed so that they get therea second faster than if they simply ran.

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@Leodon.1564 said:From the beginning, Engineer has remained my least favorite class cause I just don't like immobile turrets. I've heard Holosmith plays differently so my interest in the class has been piqued.

You know almost no engie build uses turrets (except healing turret, which is insta-blasted anyway), right?Scrapper doesn't use turrets, Core doesn't use turrets, Holo doesnt use turrets... The few static discharge builds that use rifle turret don't actually use the turret itself, only the Toolbelt Skill. Basically the only engies that play with immobile turrets are the AFK farmers...

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