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Why so few engineers?


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I've played engie main since day1, and with the time, at my eyes the class became rusty (no pun attended). I consider currently holo and scrapper to be ok. In both case you can fight an enemy calmly without risking that much to die. For core it's another story, it's more than clunky and unorganized: The class with the lesser weapon choices of all, in addition of that no weapon swap (cough cough thanks dev now I can weapon swap outside of combat) what we have is kits. Kits frankly meets the fluff of the class but not all of them are used, and they are mainly used to increase your dps during the cooldown of all the others skills.

(Here speaking of pve)There is 7 kits. S E V E N, but only 3 are mainly used. Guess which ones?! Bomb Kit, Flamethrower and Grenade kit.Apart in wvw. Sometimes I see many with a mortar... but seriously, mortar..... well it give aoe spam at least the good point is less cooldown compared to other elites meh there is no great elite apart prime laser beam. Supply crate is well non-sufficient, sneak gyro is nice giving stealth but you sacrifice some additional damages of a supply crate turrets as example.

But we return to the core of the issues: Turrets. Something has to be done, they must be revamped.But here is what are the bad changes they did to the class:1-As some said, originally we used to have bagpacks corresponding to the kit used, I don't see why they removed them, it was a nice little thing.2-Removing overcharge skills, so basically, they removed to us additional turret skills for no reasons? They used to bring a kind of strategy of when you should overcharge.3-7 Years after, an asura is still dropping human turrets, a charr is dropping human turrets and a sylvari too. Hell, give asura asuran turrets! Give sylvari plant turrets! Give charr gunmachines!!!!!! DON'T TELL ME IT ISN'T POSSIBLE WE USE THEM IN PERSONNEL STORIES OR AT HEARTS.4-No logic in the design, turrets made of steel could be only sensible to piercing projectile... they could share the boons with us...... just that will make them better.5-Think about glyphs, missiles watchwork golem whatever.6-The recent patch: WHY OVERHEATING A QUAGGAN PHOTON FORGE PREVENT YOU FROM THROWING ELIXIR TOOLBETS DA HELL!!!!

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There is 7 kits. S E V E N, but only 3 are mainly used. Guess which ones?! Bomb Kit, Flamethrower and Grenade kit, I NEVER MET DURING ALL THOSE YEARS SOMEONE USING TOOL KIT OR ELIXIR GUN NOT EVEN MED KIT!

Toolkit, elixirgun and medkit are the most used kits in WvW by far, whereas bomb kit, nade kit and flamethrower are rarely seen because they are worthless.

And that my friend is why one can never take just one persons opinion on whats strong or weak in GW2.

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Agree, and everyone experience the game differently. Hard to balance because it's really tied to the case per case. Through I did some WvW recently where they were spamming flamethrower and grenades. I guess it depends on many things: Time when playing, server etc. But you're right, I should have said that my observations were made mostly in pve and fractals.Edited the previous post.

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@"hugo.4705" said:Agree, and everyone experience the game differently. Hard to balance because it's really tied to the case per case. Through I did some WvW recently where they were spamming flamethrower and grenades. I guess it depends on many things: Time when playing, server etc. But you're right, I should have said that my observations were made mostly in pve and fractals.Edited the previous post.

They probably just forgot how rubbish the weapons were and so were trying those kits again in an abortive attempt to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. It's that unintentional optimism that creeps up on you when you've abandoned something for a long time and then one of your friends -perhaps in an attempt to troll you and make you waste several evenings trying to make something work- tells you, "Oh no. They're awesome again. I saw some players totally dominating with them the other day. You should try it."

Sort of goes without saying that these things rarely end well. But if players happen to stick with it- well... The easy bags have to come from somewhere, don't they?

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  • 2 weeks later...

@MrForz.1953 said:

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:Meh, tried a condi scrapper and its just awful.I think maybe a 1vs1 but anything else is not great.What do u even take from Scrapper trait line that is viable for a condi build.

You switch the Scrapper trait for something else. It's sadly not compatible anymore with condi right now.

Scrapper is only good for open world meme tanking and giving super speed in wvsw. If you want to dps go holo, spvp go holo, condi go holo. Heal core is probably better but if you want superspeed scrapper is the way to go.It also doesn't help that engi isnt in pve meta for ages now.

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@Echoherb.6528 said:Is it because it's complicated? Elementalists are complicated but there's way more of those. Is it the theme? I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves. Is it because they are difficult to play? Once again I think ele is also very difficult to play and I see a lot of those. I'm curious what's causes so few people to play them.

Other piano complicated classes have historically been better. Perhaps people just haven't switched over because they're used to those classes?

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@Echoherb.6528 said:Is it because it's complicated? Elementalists are complicated but there's way more of those. Is it the theme? I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves. Is it because they are difficult to play? Once again I think ele is also very difficult to play and I see a lot of those. I'm curious what's causes so few people to play them.

for me, its mostly cause i like my character aiming their rifle.

yeah....i that petty. i dislike firing from the hip. entire reason xD

well...that and engineer heals seem bad vs Thief,necro,warrior,ranger

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Managing the kits is harder than managing attunements. While the attunements have a fixed cooldown, that help you have an idea of their corresponding skills cd and when it is time to swap, equipping kits has no cooldown. Not only kits are harder to use than attunements, they are bound to your utility slots, while attunements are used to access weapon skills. Before HoT, most meta engi builds relied in running 2 or 3 kits. It is not easy to change the reputation it got for been the most complicated class to play over the years. Holosmith made engi way easier to play, but still harder than most classes like warrior, guardian, etc...

For years engi was not part of the wvw or pve meta too.. That complicates the situation...

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Where core engineer really shines, imo, is supporting other players in a party for PVE, especially if paired with folks who aren't professional e-sports players.

It condi cleans and burst heals insanely well, is able to take down almost any break bar alone, stacks might and aoe revives, all while having access to a 12 second stealth without any trait or skill swapping.

I don't think there's any other class that can beat engineer at being a support hybrid, I still sometimes come up with new tricks, even after playing the same build for 4 years.

As a DPS class, it's very complicated for the mediocre damage it deals when compared to the rest, and you'll also lack most of the party benefits that a support core engi brings in.

But the same goes for healing, another heal class does it very easily compared to an engineer and can keep the whole crew topped up most of the time, but they won't have as many tools to handle a tougher situation... like having to stealth and revive 3 downed players stacked with a bunch of bleed and burning, so you can get the aggro from the boss so he doesn't maul your buddies to death with his next attack... Or having to burst heal someone at maximum mortar range.

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  • 1 month later...

@Nirvana.8659 said:why play engineer in PvE when there are better and easyer dps for both condi and power? Don't reply me to go watch a dps benchmark on youtube ,it's useless,another class can do nearly the same dps with lower effort AND providing way more support.

Why play engineer in WvW ? Well for roaming it should still work pretty well , small scale fights too .....but forget the massive big fights , there are only 4 classes welcome in squads for WvW : scourge , firebrand , weaver , heralds .Now there is this warrior bouble mechanic that may throw warriors into the action sometimes , but aside from this classes , the rest is junk because they are inadeguate for both damage and support in big scale fights , and squads will instakick you.Boon conversion engineer?Just an optimistic engineer feature , that doesn't work with the actual WvW main mechanics : boon corruption .The more you convert condis into boons,the more enemy scrouge will corrupt your boons into condis.Basically you would be a scourge dream.

Why play engineer in PvP : like small WvW roaming , engineer can work there too.

Engineer was the hardest class to play some time after realease , but now,it's not anymore the hardest one ,from long time already . <Every class has now the f1-f5 ability , is not somothing unique anymore , plus , engineer was the hardest class also for the very disconnected traits that got 0 sinergy for long time ,but were still able to be usefull if well played with gppd timings.Now we have some trait sinergy , but the whole picture is just underperforming compared to something else.

Don't get me wrong ,the class is good , bit is for a small niche of players .

You must like the theme first of all , and you must be ready to get pushed out form PvE raids and from WvW squads because peoples prefer something that performs better than us .

All of the above are mine opinions after i played this class since the release of this game .

I'm starting to play herald only from 1 week,and only because i'm mainly a WvW player and i'm tired of get kicked out of squads , sometimes i like to play with other peoples too.... after years of FORCED solo WVW playing now.... and i get tons more bags , i do tons more damage(no more projectile reflections that can stop my dps..yeaaaah..) , i get way more support sitting in squads (condi removal and guardians healing that are priorytized for party/squad memebers) ,etc. etc.

Scrapper sole reason for making condi obsolete in wvw what are you talking about. Scrapper really strong in condi cleanse and support role in big squads. And dps scrapper is honestly op in melee train just wait untill people catch onto it.

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@Echoherb.6528 said:I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves.Thieves technically are a magical class. Their teleports (Shadow Steps) and Stealth are Shadow magic, after all.With the addition of Elite specs, Warriors also became magical. Berserkers gain access to Fire magic and Spellbreakers use a mix of Guardian/Dervish and Mesmer-like magic.So I'd guess Engineers are the only non-magic class.But then again, it's questionable how they conjure kits, turrets and drones, AND they are able to conjure electric currents within wooden shields and hammers.Moreover, the drones have turned into Wells, with also are magical fields by nature.That makes one wonder, if they aren't magical after all.

As for the actual thread topic. I don't even notice Engineers being less played than other classes.Even during my PvP matches, I regularly see players clinging to once-OP Yolosmiths and sometimes even Bunker Scrappers.They aren't as overabundant as Mirages, Thieves and Weavers, but those three are currently hard to beat in popularity.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Echoherb.6528 said:I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves.Thieves technically are a magical class. Their teleports (
Shadow
Steps) and Stealth
are
Shadow magic, after all.With the addition of Elite specs, Warriors also became magical. Berserkers gain access to Fire magic and Spellbreakers use a mix of Guardian/Dervish and Mesmer-like magic.So I'd guess Engineers are the only non-magic class.But then again, it's questionable how they conjure kits, turrets and drones, AND they are able to conjure electric currents within wooden shields and hammers.Moreover, the drones have turned into Wells, with also are magical fields by nature.That makes one wonder, if they aren't magical after all.

As for the actual thread topic. I don't even notice Engineers being less played than other classes.Even during my PvP matches, I regularly see players clinging to once-OP Yolosmiths and sometimes even Bunker Scrappers.They aren't as overabundant as Mirages, Thieves and Weavers, but those three are currently hard to beat in popularity.

On the topic of magical professions, I'm not sure Berserkers get fire magic. They just light themselves on fire with no regard to their own health and walk run around causing harm to others, as well as throw out fire from weapons they light on fire. Spellbreakers though, yes they have magic. Anti-magic magic. They use magic to negate magic.I love topics like this, themes and the like are really cool to me.

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@Ghos.1326 said:

@Echoherb.6528 said:I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves.Thieves technically are a magical class. Their teleports (
Shadow
Steps) and Stealth
are
Shadow magic, after all.With the addition of Elite specs, Warriors also became magical. Berserkers gain access to Fire magic and Spellbreakers use a mix of Guardian/Dervish and Mesmer-like magic.So I'd guess Engineers are the only non-magic class.But then again, it's questionable how they conjure kits, turrets and drones, AND they are able to conjure electric currents within wooden shields and hammers.Moreover, the drones have turned into Wells, with also are magical fields by nature.That makes one wonder, if they aren't magical after all.

As for the actual thread topic. I don't even notice Engineers being less played than other classes.Even during my PvP matches, I regularly see players clinging to once-OP Yolosmiths and sometimes even Bunker Scrappers.They aren't as overabundant as Mirages, Thieves and Weavers, but those three are currently hard to beat in popularity.

On the topic of magical professions, I'm not sure Berserkers get fire magic. They just light themselves on fire with no regard to their own health and walk run around causing harm to others, as well as throw out fire from weapons they light on fire. Spellbreakers though, yes they have magic. Anti-magic magic. They use magic to negate magic.I love topics like this, themes and the like are really cool to me.

Especially after the release of Pof, Berserker magic feels extremely close to Balthazar's magic.I'm not sure how you explain the ground breaking and turning into burning fields, just by slamming down a torch, if it's not magic.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Echoherb.6528 said:I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves.Thieves technically are a magical class. Their teleports (
Shadow
Steps) and Stealth
are
Shadow magic, after all.With the addition of Elite specs, Warriors also became magical. Berserkers gain access to Fire magic and Spellbreakers use a mix of Guardian/Dervish and Mesmer-like magic.So I'd guess Engineers are the only non-magic class.But then again, it's questionable how they conjure kits, turrets and drones, AND they are able to conjure electric currents within wooden shields and hammers.Moreover, the drones have turned into Wells, with also are magical fields by nature.That makes one wonder, if they aren't magical after all.

As for the actual thread topic. I don't even notice Engineers being less played than other classes.Even during my PvP matches, I regularly see players clinging to once-OP Yolosmiths and sometimes even Bunker Scrappers.They aren't as overabundant as Mirages, Thieves and Weavers, but those three are currently hard to beat in popularity.

On the topic of magical professions, I'm not sure Berserkers get fire magic. They just light themselves on fire with no regard to their own health and walk run around causing harm to others, as well as throw out fire from weapons they light on fire. Spellbreakers though, yes they have magic. Anti-magic magic. They use magic to negate magic.I love topics like this, themes and the like are really cool to me.

Especially after the release of Pof, Berserker magic feels extremely close to Balthazar's magic.I'm not sure how you explain the ground breaking and turning into burning fields, just by slamming down a torch, if it's not magic.

Brute strength and lighting things ablaze, including the self. Fiery rage and crazed strength have been key elements of a berserker archetype since forever.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Echoherb.6528 said:I can kind of see people wanting more of a magically themed class in this kind of game, but at the same time there are plenty of warriors and thieves.Thieves technically are a magical class. Their teleports (
Shadow
Steps) and Stealth
are
Shadow magic, after all.With the addition of Elite specs, Warriors also became magical. Berserkers gain access to Fire magic and Spellbreakers use a mix of Guardian/Dervish and Mesmer-like magic.So I'd guess Engineers are the only non-magic class.But then again, it's questionable how they conjure kits, turrets and drones, AND they are able to conjure electric currents within wooden shields and hammers.Moreover, the drones have turned into Wells, with also are magical fields by nature.That makes one wonder, if they aren't magical after all.

As for the actual thread topic. I don't even notice Engineers being less played than other classes.Even during my PvP matches, I regularly see players clinging to once-OP Yolosmiths and sometimes even Bunker Scrappers.They aren't as overabundant as Mirages, Thieves and Weavers, but those three are currently hard to beat in popularity.

On the topic of magical professions, I'm not sure Berserkers get fire magic. They just light themselves on fire with no regard to their own health and walk run around causing harm to others, as well as throw out fire from weapons they light on fire. Spellbreakers though, yes they have magic. Anti-magic magic. They use magic to negate magic.I love topics like this, themes and the like are really cool to me.

Especially after the release of Pof, Berserker magic feels extremely close to Balthazar's magic.I'm not sure how you explain the ground breaking and turning into burning fields, just by slamming down a torch, if it's not magic.Maybe its just a magic torch.
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@Fueki.4753 said:Especially after the release of Pof, Berserker magic feels extremely close to Balthazar's magic.I'm not sure how you explain the ground breaking and turning into burning fields, just by slamming down a torch, if it's not magic.

It has probably more to do with making warrior style gameplay more exciting than actual lore.

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